This is from a recent podcast he was on.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEt4ThcWkAAsHXo?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/TalkinGiants/status/1750629897377071449 (https://twitter.com/TalkinGiants/status/1750629897377071449)
It's always a good thing when players fancy themselves GMs /sarcasm/
Coaches divided, players divided and we have our answer on why the Giants have sucked for so long.
Kayvon should stop doing interviews. He's going to hurt himself in the long run by running his mouth.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 25, 2024, 05:26:52 PMKayvon should stop doing interviews. He's going to hurt himself in the long run by running his mouth.
The irony is that he genuinely believes he is doing the exact opposite of that.
Thibs should focus on getting to the QB with more consistency instead of playing GM. He had a crap season as far as I'm concerned in terms of impacting games and he will be under the microscope next season. This serves nobody well. Complete jerk for spewing this negativity.
Quote from: Trench on January 25, 2024, 06:18:08 PMThibs should focus on getting to the QB with more consistency instead of playing GM. He had a crap season as far as I'm concerned in terms of impacting games and he will be under the microscope next season. This serves nobody well. Complete jerk for spewing this negativity.
Not a good way to ingratiate yourself with your own front office and owner.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 25, 2024, 06:19:35 PMNot a good way to ingratiate yourself with your own front office and owner.
Not at all. And the guy does a lot of talking for someone who is below expectations
Seems like a clip making a big deal out of nothing. Or maybe he's a hater a "hater" too.
Does anyone have the full interview?
Wow
Barkley was risk paying (although worthy and a fan favorite), at that point in time it didn't make good business sense. paying Jones was just a dumbass move.
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Quote from: MightyGiants on January 25, 2024, 04:55:13 PMIt's always a good thing when players fancy themselves GMs /sarcasm/
He isn't wrong. One of the two played at a pro bowl level and the other is middling. The middling player got a big contract and the pro bowler got the scraps. To make matters worse a rookie street free agent was more effective with the same talent. He's only putting voice to something everyone is thinking about.
Called this.
You cannot pay a guy that DID NOT deserve it.
Clearly, this decision did not sit well with the roster.
Kayvon checking himself and going to the script about how HE believes is diamond pudding proof.
Wasn't there a weird continuity issue where the offensive line looked waaaay better playing with backups instead of the $40m Superstar QB that never does anything wrong and it's EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT???!?
I vaguely remember this and mentioned how that affects grown men playing pro sports.
Every single one of those guys went through hell to get to where they are. Nobody coddled them.
Especially at the pro level. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever witnessed. Blows my mind.
(Shoutout to the Baker. Some teams do be forgetting that you need to WIN.
There's only so many medium Pepsi)
On top of that, you have an owner playing favorites with grown men and choosing THE WRONG GUY LOLOLOLOL
Know what that does??
It created a culture that is ME FIRST, team second. 🤡 Extremely difficult to undo.
Could have been the opposite. They could've shown the entire roster (bum QB included) that they're loyal to their players that EARN IT.
A one eyed mule could've made better roster decisions with that $40m.
Rule of thumb is it takes 10 years to undo this sort of Quarterback mistake.
Doubling down and paying the mistake $40m was a bold decision. Must say.
Totally unacceptable/unbelievable/unabashedly stupid
Long road to keep the streak alive by 2029...
Schoen will talk to the agent. The agent will talk to Thibs. Thibs will talk to Schoen. Lessons hopefully learned. We have enough drama around the HC without extending it to GM and ownership by criticising their priorities.
The irony is that for fans and media we now see that Thibs' most vicious sack of the season has been registered out of pads on his own QB. That should give him pause for self-reflection if he has any self-awareness.
It would be nice if athletes kept their opinions on team issues to themselves, but they don't anymore. There are too many positives to air things publicly these days. Sad, but true and Thibs is not alone. Regarding what he said, yes it's true, however the reality is if Giant management stepped out of their bubble they would have realized that 2022 was a mirage and have moved on from both Jones and Barkley last year (ideally the year they took over). But in 2022, Barkley's presence made Jones a competent QB. Not the other way around. The best thing the Giants can do now is draft a QB (they feel is a potential franchise QB). Jones will not be ready to play on opening day despite the hopes of many. And rushing him back will probably just lead to another injury and end his career. The players and coaches and management just now have to live with the mistake they made last summer. They have to do their best to work around that mistake to start getting the franchise back to competency.
Quote from: madbadger on January 25, 2024, 08:49:06 PMHe isn't wrong. One of the two played at a pro bowl level and the other is middling. The middling player got a big contract and the pro bowler got the scraps. To make matters worse a rookie street free agent was more effective with the same talent. He's only putting voice to something everyone is thinking about.
I'm not thinking it. Barkley should not have been given a huge contract, because RBs should never be given huge contracts. And the fact that he continues to regress, didn't even rush for 1,000 yards, and averaged less than 4 YPC only proves that out.
Just because DJ didn't live up to his contract doesn't mean we should have paid someone else who shouldn't have been paid. So no, KT is not right.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 26, 2024, 07:21:45 AMI'm not thinking it. Barkley should not have been given a huge contract, because RBs should never be given huge contracts. And the fact that he continues to regress, didn't even rush for 1,000 yards, and averaged less than 4 YPC only proves that out.
Just because DJ didn't live up to his contract doesn't mean we should have paid someone else who shouldn't have been paid. So no, KT is not right.
Agreed. Barkley made out like a bandit with a $10mm fully guaranteed number last year. He was pedestrian at best, plus he got hurt again, adding another data point to a long-standing trend of constant injuries with this player.
Moreover, claiming the Giants didn't "pay Barkley first" isn't wholly accurate. Let's not forget they tried to sign him during the 2022 bye week, and he passed. They hadn't offered Jones anything at that point. Barkley then passed again in the offseason on an offer that he clearly should have taken and which no team in the NFL will offer him this offseason. He is now worth much less.
The Giants made efforts to sign Barkley, offering him more than he clearly deserved based on his 2023 performance. He was the stubborn one, not them. And now that stubbornness is going to cost him.
Barkley misread the market and turned down whatever the team offered. That's pretty much the end of the story.
Quote from: madbadger on January 25, 2024, 08:49:06 PMHe isn't wrong. One of the two played at a pro bowl level and the other is middling. The middling player got a big contract and the pro bowler got the scraps. To make matters worse a rookie street free agent was more effective with the same talent. He's only putting voice to something everyone is thinking about.
It's pretty much a truism (which is why RBs are upset they are not getting paid) that it's foolish, and you almost always pay for past performance when you sign an RB to their first veteran contract. It's why KT should focus on improving his own performance and spend less time publicly second-guessing his boss and worse giving his bosses BAD advice
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 26, 2024, 07:26:55 AMAgreed. Barkley made out like a bandit with a $10mm fully guaranteed number last year. He was pedestrian at best, plus he got hurt again, adding another data point to a long-standing trend of constant injuries with this player.
Moreover, claiming the Giants didn't "pay Barkley first" isn't wholly accurate. Let's not forget they tried to sign him during the 2022 bye week, and he passed. They hadn't offered Jones anything at that point. Barkley then passed again in the offseason on an offer that he clearly should have taken and which no team in the NFL will offer him this offseason. He is now worth much less.
The Giants made efforts to sign Barkley, offering him more than he clearly deserved based on his 2023 performance. He was the stubborn one, not them. And now that stubbornness is going to cost him.
This ^^ Exactly.
The Giants tried to sign him. Barkley turned it down. KT should just move on.
Maybe KT is upset that their wasn't enough cap space to outbid Seattle for Julian Love because so much went to Jones?
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 26, 2024, 07:21:45 AMI'm not thinking it. Barkley should not have been given a huge contract, because RBs should never be given huge contracts. And the fact that he continues to regress, didn't even rush for 1,000 yards, and averaged less than 4 YPC only proves that out.
Just because DJ didn't live up to his contract doesn't mean we should have paid someone else who shouldn't have been paid. So no, KT is not right.
He should have been paid fair market value and not forced to grovel just to get the franchise.
When you are looking at this season's best RBs, I think this is one of the best stats to look at (along with yards per attempt and receiving stats)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GExwbOjX0AA-Fq2?format=png&name=small)
This is not a big story. One guy's opinion. He's entitled to it, just like all of us.
He believes Saquon should have been paid FIRST. It's not a comment about Jones (except for the obvious belief the he should NOT have been first).
Thib's view is... Saquon produced more big plays than Jones, so he deserved to go FIRST.
He starts his remarks by saying, "that's all I'm gonna say about this." I think it's obvious what that means.
He's not (now or ever) going to say what he thinks about Jones EXCEPT that Saquon deserved to go first.
Bob
Neither Barkley nor Jones should have been paid.
He isn't wrong though people should be compensated for their play. Julian love put up a top 5 season at safety last year and we didn't have 6 million for him? But we had all that for Jones. I would have rather kept Love than Jones.
Quote from: madbadger on January 26, 2024, 09:57:53 AMHe should have been paid fair market value and not forced to grovel just to get the franchise.
LOL. He was offered a fair market value, multi-year contract and turned it down. The franchise tag figure exceeded his value and his worth. As DB said, he made out like a bandit in 2023 vs. his production. And he proved he's not worth that kind of money and that the team was lucky he turned down the long term deal.
He's right. If they were going to overpay for one of those guys probably over pay for the one of them that's actually good at their job. Seems pretty straightforward. I think the reasons things played out the way they did are pretty obvious, selling the fanbase on letting Jones walk after his best season, but from this it makes me think that the players would have understood if they did it.
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 10:16:29 AMThis is not a big story. One guy's opinion. He's entitled to it, just like all of us.
It may not be a big story to us, but we don't really know how the story will play out in the locker room. We've heard stories of toxic Giants locker rooms in the not distant past, and from what I understand it's an unwritten rule that you never publicly talk about your teammates contracts (other than maybe generic congratulations).
All of this who got paid what and when is all on Mara. I would have to think that since Schoen/Daboll came from outside the organization they had/have compiled an unemotional evaluation of Jones. Mara with his "we did everything we could do to screw him up" blabbing laid the groundwork for the unwise contract. The compromise was the two year out. The two signings are mutually exclusive. SB overvalued himself.
Quote from: Gmo11 on January 26, 2024, 10:44:05 AMHe's right. If they were going to overpay for one of those guys probably over pay for the one of them that's actually good at their job. Seems pretty straightforward. I think the reasons things played out the way they did are pretty obvious, selling the fanbase on letting Jones walk after his best season, but from this it makes me think that the players would have understood if they did it.
No, he's not right. You don't overpay anyone, especially a RB. The Giants tried to pay him and he rebuffed them. The reason Saquon wasn't paid is because of Saquon and no one else.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 26, 2024, 10:24:36 AMLOL. He was offered a fair market value, multi-year contract and turned it down. The franchise tag figure exceeded his value and his worth. As DB said, he made out like a bandit in 2023 vs. his production. And he proved he's not worth that kind of money and that the team was lucky he turned down the long term deal.
Jonathan Taylor's contract reset the market for the position. The Giants knew Taylor was going to get paid and knew it would negatively effect their bargaining power. It was fair play for them but I would rather over pay for a top 10 running back than to grossly over pay for a bottom 10 quarterback, which is exactly what happened. Jones stupid contract is far more toxic to the future success of the franchise than paying Barkely $14 million per for four years. I don't know how anyone can look at the two and say the Giants made the right call. If the Giants cut Jones after next year the dead money hit alone is $22 million and that's after having paid him $81 million for 2023 and 2024. $103 million for a dude who, with the same roster, was the clearly third most effective quarterback on the field this year after a journeyman and a rookie street free agent. So miss me with your lol about Barkely. At least that dude can play. Jones is garbage.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on January 26, 2024, 11:35:29 AMNo, he's not right. You don't overpay anyone, especially a RB. The Giants tried to pay him and they rebuffed him. The reason Saquon wasn't paid is because of Saquon and no one else.
Agreed. The prudent thing to have done was let both walk. And if they had this place would have erupted into an inferno hellscape as people try to wrap their minds around the idea that the team just went to the playoffs and won a game and now they are simply letting their QB and best offensive player this side of Thomas walk away for nothing. Even though looking ahead to the future it would have been the right decision, and if they had simply lost a few of those games last year that they were lucky to win, that is exactly what would have happened.
Its not prudent to disobey direct orders from your boss.
Quote from: madbadger on January 26, 2024, 12:05:25 PMJonathan Taylor's contract reset the market for the position. The Giants knew Taylor was going to get paid and knew it would negatively effect their bargaining power. It was fair play for them but I would rather over pay for a top 10 running back than to grossly over pay for a bottom 10 quarterback, which is exactly what happened. Jones stupid contract is far more toxic to the future success of the franchise than paying Barkely $14 million per for four years. I don't know how anyone can look at the two and say the Giants made the right call. If the Giants cut Jones after next year the dead money hit alone is $22 million and that's after having paid him $81 million for 2023 and 2024. $103 million for a dude who, with the same roster, was the clearly third most effective quarterback on the field this year after a journeyman and a rookie street free agent. So miss me with your lol about Barkely. At least that dude can play. Jones is garbage.
I never said paying DJ over Saquon was the right call, because I'm capable of seeing them for what they are - 2 completely unrelated events. Neither should have been paid.
As for overpaying a RB, that is foolish under any circumstance. So happy the Giants agree.
As for Taylor, he's much better than Saquon - in 2 less years in the league has 5 more rushing TDs, only has 600 less rushing yards, and averages almost a yard more per carry. And he's younger. And even in his case, I would not have overpaid him. So Saquon certainly wasn't worth it. And as stated, his 2023 performance clearly shows that.
Quote from: Gmo11 on January 26, 2024, 10:44:05 AMHe's right. If they were going to overpay for one of those guys probably over pay for the one of them that's actually good at their job. Seems pretty straightforward. I think the reasons things played out the way they did are pretty obvious, selling the fanbase on letting Jones walk after his best season, but from this it makes me think that the players would have understood if they did it.
I agree. I said it at the time and will say it again- playing hardball with your best player, a team captain, a guy that has put every piece of work into the franchise that you've asked him to put...WILL have negative consequences in the locker room. I'd even go so far as to say it cost the team wins this year. You can believe that or not- that's fine. But this stuff MATTERS to players- when a guy does everything right and the front office still doesn't pay him, it reverberates.
And let's not forget- we are not talking about a huge percentage of the cap by any means at all- say it was 12 or 13 million a year for multiple years. The cap hit is actually lower since it's spread out and the difference between the tag and a multi-year deal, cap wise last year, would have been minimal when looking at the entirety of the cap situation.
I think this was 100% a misstep by Joe Schoen- for the CULTURE impact at such a minimal cost. Kayvon is just saying what I guarantee other dudes in the locker room are thinking. They want to play for a team that not only says they value your hard work and dedication but also backs that up with dollars and SECURITY. I'm sure most won't like to hear that message, but that doesn't make it any less correct.
Quote from: madbadger on January 26, 2024, 09:57:53 AMHe should have been paid fair market value and not forced to grovel just to get the franchise.
IMO he was offered more than FMV and turned it down, and then was forced to take more than FMV via the tag. Assuming the Giants aren't foolish enough to tag him again he'll find out what his real FMV is. I predict a splashy high total number that he and his agent can point to with the 'under the hood' numbers being far more moderate.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on January 26, 2024, 11:02:54 AMIt may not be a big story to us, but we don't really know how the story will play out in the locker room. We've heard stories of toxic Giants locker rooms in the not distant past, and from what I understand it's an unwritten rule that you never publicly talk about your teammates contracts (other than maybe generic congratulations).
Doc: That's true, but in NY every fart gets front-page reporting because there are so many reporters. Bob
Without reading this entire thread, I think he was out of his lane commenting on this and I would imagine it didn't go down well with the brass. As a fan, I see it as dipping his toe in the water and I wonder what to expect of his future actions. He had to know that it would go viral and that tells me it's all about his ego and getting attention. I'm sure most of you disagree. It's going to take a while before I can get behind this guy.
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 01:21:58 PMDoc: That's true, but in NY every fart gets front-page reporting because there are so many reporters. Bob
He basically threw his QB under the bus.
Speaking of Barkley, is anyone bothered by his response to this tweet?
https://twitter.com/saquon/status/1750908706441637986?t=fMwN11mhZmGatVtJr0nVNg&s=19
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 26, 2024, 01:26:13 PMWithout reading this entire thread, I think he was out of his lane commenting on this and I would imagine it didn't go down well with the brass. As a fan, I see it as dipping his toe in the water and I wonder what to expect of his future actions. He had to know that it would go viral and that tells me it's all about his ego and getting attention. I'm sure most of you disagree. It's going to take a while before I can get behind this guy.
I have to say, you summed it up well, Ed. I share your view that a well-run organization people stick to their lane
Jonathan Taylor reset the market closer to where the Giants were offering on non-injury guarantees than what Barkley was asking. If you factor in the age differential (nearly two years) Taylor's $14m pa extension is over what Barkley will command IMO.
We can get a solid second contract veteran and a day two rookie for less than half of Saquon's potential contract demand and they should match the combined Saquon/Breida output.
We need to start to reshape the roster this year so we are better positioned when we get out from under the albatross QB contract next year.
Thibodeaux can moan and I know the locker room will groan but paying Barkley top of market value is not a decision that will help improve the overall roster. Schoen surely knows that.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 26, 2024, 01:26:13 PMWithout reading this entire thread, I think he was out of his lane commenting on this and I would imagine it didn't go down well with the brass. As a fan, I see it as dipping his toe in the water and I wonder what to expect of his future actions. He had to know that it would go viral and that tells me it's all about his ego and getting attention. I'm sure most of you disagree. It's going to take a while before I can get behind this guy.
Ed: If you didn't read everything, I made the argument somewhere above that people misinterpreted his statement. I still DO agree with your "lanes" argument, but my point still holds true. IMO, he was not throwing Jones under the bus by showing support for a player he believes deserved higher priority than Jones. He said nothing against (or about) Jones. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 01:59:44 PMEd: If you didn't read everything, I made the argument somewhere above that people misinterpreted his statement. I still DO agree with your "lanes" argument, but my point still holds true. IMO, he was not throwing Jones under the bus by showing support for a player he believes deserved higher priority than Jones. He said nothing against (or about) Jones. Bob
Regardless if he was supporting Barkley or attacking Jones, players should avoid discussing contracts and other GM details. It's more than fine to say you hope a player returns, but you clearly are leaving your lane when you discuss the merits of your GM's decisions or decisions to be.
Do we know what Barkley was offered? Never saw those numbers.
Its really moot at this point regardless.
It's never good when players make these types of comments. KT probably shouldn't have done that, but I do wonder if there is a decent size group in the locker room that agree and he is saying what a lot are thinking. If players were upset by it, I am sure they will all get over it if they haven't already.
What really matters is the path forward to winning football which changes everyone's outlook and attitudes. Not sure how DJ starting next year with no Barkley will playout in the locker room, but I think that is where this team is headed.
Another way overrated draft BUST who after 2 seasons of very spotty (translation "I put out when I feel like it") efforts has promoted himseld to Director of Football Operations AND General Manager.
Jeez, does our scouting dept do anything of a positive nature. Watching this kid on his TV games you could tell when he came to play and when he took games (not plays...games) off. So why should it be any different when he is getting paid.
Get rid of him before the rest of the league wises up.
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 01:59:44 PMEd: If you didn't read everything, I made the argument somewhere above that people misinterpreted his statement. I still DO agree with your "lanes" argument, but my point still holds true. IMO, he was not throwing Jones under the bus by showing support for a player he believes deserved higher priority than Jones. He said nothing against (or about) Jones. Bob
Bob, I read somewhere a comment that disparaged Jones but it may have been an editorial insert. He did say that he still believes in Jones but as Rich said, it implies that the QB and leader of the team wasn't the first priority. Btw, it had to do with market values and the ability to tag Barkley but not Jones. He certainly threw his GM under the bus.
I'm more concerned about what he will do or say in the future that would have implications that effect the locker room.
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 26, 2024, 01:59:44 PMEd: If you didn't read everything, I made the argument somewhere above that people misinterpreted his statement. I still DO agree with your "lanes" argument, but my point still holds true. IMO, he was not throwing Jones under the bus by showing support for a player he believes deserved higher priority than Jones. He said nothing against (or about) Jones. Bob
I share that same view, Bob. KT's comment wasn't a knock on Jones, nor was it meant to be.
However, I do agree that was business Kayvon had no cause to stick his nose into. It basically says "I'm nosey and ignorant and just want to say something because I can."
The 'ignorant' part is that Barkley was made multiple offers BEFORE Jones got his deal and Barkley turned them down. Kayvon failed to mention that part.
"This is the life we've chosen"
-Hyman Roth
We live in the social media world, keeping that in context, this is much ado about nothing.
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Whether you think it was smart for Thibs to air this out publicly is one thing. However you are naïve if you think he's the only one in that clubhouse with that opinion.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on January 26, 2024, 05:33:21 PMWhether you think it was smart for Thibs to air this out publicly is one thing. However you are naïve if you think he's the only one in that clubhouse with that opinion.
I said it in my post above: Saquon was presented with multiple offers before Jones. Saquon rejected every offer.
QuoteFirst, any notion of Giants general manager Joe Schoen prioritizing Jones over Barkly is false, and for proof of that, consider that Schoen, during the 2022 bye week, initiated discussions with Barkley's representation with the hopes of greasing the skids for a long-term deal.
Meanwhile, Jones, when asked, confirmed to reporters that the team had not contacted his representatives about a new deal. Make of that what you will, but one possible interpretation could be that the team was more certain about Barkley for the long term than Jones. Another possibility is that the Giants were simply trying to get one key negotiation out of the way so that it didn't have to decide how to apply the franchise tag if it became necessary to use it.
Barkley, who was consistent in his message that he wanted to be a Giant for life and didn't want to re-set the market at his position, saw his contract talks go nowhere during the bye, at which point they were tabled until after the season.
The Giants then tried again at least two more times, as was reported, to get a deal done with Barkley, and both times, the offers were rejected. While each deal seemed to have a reported APY within $2-$3 million of Christian McCaffrey's $16 million APY, the guaranteed money was always the sticking point.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/kayvon-thibodeaux-raises-daniel-jones-saquon-barkley-contract-debate
https://x.com/pff_macri/status/1747725484274925575?
And how was his run defense?
Thibs may want to STFU and focus on improving his game.
He's lucky Neal is a bust otherwise he would garner a lot more scrutiny than he already gets.
Next year is either a breakout year for him or he becomes more of the Ximines type
I know I'm in the minority but for a second year player who only turned 23 a month ago, I don't think Thibodeaux had that bad of a year personally.
Obviously there is considerable room for improvement and I'm not saying otherwise, but when I compare to what he was as a rookie, I see progress. I also saw progress during his rookie season, as he was much better late in the year than the beginning.
If he continues on his trajectory I think he'll be a household name among edge guys next year.
I've shared articles where KT scores very low in all edge categories and when I watch him play he just seems like an average player. Currently he has no pass-rushing techniques such as the bull rush, swim move, and spin move. He also lacks in the ability to change direction quickly, accelerate off the snap, and bend around the edge.
His sacks usually occur against poor teams like the Jets or he benefits from another rusher flushing the QB to his direction. He takes plays off and is often neutralized on most plays by a single blocker. I'd like to say he can improve, maybe he will be more motivated when his contract is up?
Quote from: umassgrad on January 28, 2024, 08:40:12 AMI've shared articles where KT scores very low in all edge categories and when I watch him play he just seems like an average player. Currently he has no pass-rushing techniques such as the bull rush, swim move, and spin move. He also lacks in the ability to change direction quickly, accelerate off the snap, and bend around the edge.
His sacks usually occur against poor teams like the Jets or he benefits from another rusher flushing the QB to his direction. He takes plays off and is often neutralized on most plays by a single blocker. I'd like to say he can improve, maybe he will be more motivated when his contract is up?
I'm not saying any of the above is untrue. If one had LT type expectations for this guy then yes you should be disappointed, but you should be also asking yourself if those expectations were reasonable.
Thibodeaux had more sacks than Joey Bosey and 50 combined tackles versus Bosa's 53. Obviously I am not saying he is comparable to Bosa at this point. But the idea that he was some stiff out there who contributed nothing is not one that I agree with personally. I think he's a developing young player who just turned 23 and has a lot of room for improvement but has been on an upward trajectory of improvement since entering the league.
Is this now a thread on his performance rather than his mouth?
What did the scouting report say about him being able to bend?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 28, 2024, 08:47:58 AMIs this now a thread on his performance rather than his mouth?
What did the scouting report say about him being able to bend?
It's a thread about Thibodeaux. The dialogue morphed a little from the precise subject of the OP over the 4 pages, I guess. It happens.
KT was a opinionated in some podcast in the offseason, and it rubbed people the wrong way. That's the NFL in the social media world for you. It's a pretty common occurrence and not all that interesting or big of a deal, IMO. He's a Gen-Z guy, and this is how that generation acts. Outside of maybe a private talking to, it will be of no consequence to him.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 28, 2024, 08:47:37 AMI'm not saying any of the above is untrue. If one had LT type expectations for this guy then yes you should be disappointed, but you should be also asking yourself if those expectations were reasonable.
Thibodeaux had more sacks than Joey Bosey and 50 combined tackles versus Bosa's 53. Obviously I am not saying he is comparable to Bosa at this point. But the idea that he was some stiff out there who contributed nothing is not one that I agree with personally. I think he's a developing young player who just turned 23 and has a lot of room for improvement but has been on an upward trajectory of improvement since entering the league.
What stats are you comparing here?
Here is Bosa's stats:
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 28, 2024, 08:47:37 AMI'm not saying any of the above is untrue. If one had LT type expectations for this guy then yes you should be disappointed, but you should be also asking yourself if those expectations were reasonable.
Thibodeaux had more sacks than Joey Bosey and 50 combined tackles versus Bosa's 53. Obviously I am not saying he is comparable to Bosa at this point. But the idea that he was some stiff out there who contributed nothing is not one that I agree with personally. I think he's a developing young player who just turned 23 and has a lot of room for improvement but has been on an upward trajectory of improvement since entering the league.
The question I would then pose is if we had the chance would we trade Thibs straight up for Bosa?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 28, 2024, 08:56:11 AMWhat stats are you comparing here?
Here is Bosa's stats:
Will add, Bosa's best year was hos 2nd year, so if KT follows that he will be a disappointment.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 28, 2024, 09:13:37 AMWill add, Bosa's best year was hos 2nd year, so if KT follows that he will be a disappointment.
I watch Bosa consistently get pressure and be double teamed. Not Thibs. My hope is Wink used him totally wrong and maybe a new coordinator will teach him a strahan spin move, an LT bend move or a few stunt moves in which case we are having a different discussion but for now he is not elite by a long stretch. He gets neutralized by one tackle on a consistent basis and we expected better from the 5th pick
At 4 YPC Barkley is an average back who struggles to move the chains
Most of his yards come from the occasional long runs in the 2nd half when the D is tired
He should be granted his release and free agency. If he goes to the Eagles or Cowboys all the better for us
Quote from: Trench on January 28, 2024, 09:20:07 AMI watch Bosa consistently get pressure and be double teamed. Not Thibs. My hope is Wink used him totally wrong and maybe a new coordinator will teach him a strahan spin move, an LT bend move or a few stunt moves in which case we are having a different discussion but for now he is not elite by a long stretch. He gets neutralized by one tackle on a consistent basis and we expected better from the 5th pick
I don't know the percent, but Wink had KT dropping in coverage to some extent. That wasn't my favorite tactic. I get the idea of mixing things up, but you also have to play to your players strengths.
Lastly, his 11.5 sacks are decent raw number but when you consider he had 6.5 of those sacks against Washington and the Jets, it paints a different picture. If I said in 14 games he had 5.5 sacks would anyone be impressed?
One thing that has to be considered the other way, is how much the team was playing from behind, which never helps pass rushers.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 28, 2024, 08:56:11 AMWhat stats are you comparing here?
Here is Bosa's stats:
I think he meant Nick Bosa.
This is a good discussion. I understand the criticisms of Thibs. I'm hoping he can develop into a more consistent player. He has talent but the holes in his game that people have pointed out are legitimate concerns. You always worry that a guy like this will do well against weaker competition and then disappear against the better offenses.
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 28, 2024, 09:22:41 AMAt 4 YPC Barkley is an average back who struggles to move the chains
Most of his yards come from the occasional long runs in the 2nd half when the D is tired
He should be granted his release and free agency. If he goes to the Eagles or Cowboys all the better for us
Please tell me which planet you live on where the Giants offense has been tiring out opposing defenses in the 2nd half. I'll pack my bags right now and join ya.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 28, 2024, 08:56:11 AMWhat stats are you comparing here?
Here is Bosa's stats:
Sorry I meant Nick Bosa.
Quote from: Trench on January 28, 2024, 09:07:00 AMThe question I would then pose is if we had the chance would we trade Thibs straight up for Bosa?
Of course, if we're talking about Nick Bosa. I stated very clearly that Thibodeaux was not comparable to him. My point was more that I would argue Thibodeaux is trending in a positive direction, unlike many others on our team both now and in the recent past.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 28, 2024, 08:00:55 AMI know I'm in the minority but for a second year player who only turned 23 a month ago, I don't think Thibodeaux had that bad of a year personally.
Obviously there is considerable room for improvement and I'm not saying otherwise, but when I compare to what he was as a rookie, I see progress. I also saw progress during his rookie season, as he was much better late in the year than the beginning.
If he continues on his trajectory I think he'll be a household name among edge guys next year.
But you expect more from a guy drafted where he was.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 28, 2024, 11:34:18 AMBut you expect more from a guy drafted where he was.
That is fair.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on January 28, 2024, 11:14:52 AMPlease tell me which planet you live on where the Giants offense has been tiring out opposing defenses in the 2nd half. I'll pack my bags right now and join ya.
All defenses are more tired in the 2nd half they are human
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 28, 2024, 08:00:55 AMI know I'm in the minority but for a second year player who only turned 23 a month ago, I don't think Thibodeaux had that bad of a year personally.
Obviously there is considerable room for improvement and I'm not saying otherwise, but when I compare to what he was as a rookie, I see progress. I also saw progress during his rookie season, as he was much better late in the year than the beginning.
If he continues on his trajectory I think he'll be a household name among edge guys next year.
He had a good season. And is getting better the more reps he gets. The only reason he gets a bad rap is that he has the audacity to speak his mind from time to time. The horror!!
Quote from: Gmo11 on January 29, 2024, 11:19:49 AMHe had a good season. And is getting better the more reps he gets. The only reason he gets a bad rap is that he has the audacity to speak his mind from time to time. The horror!!
This will easily be forgotten if he has 15 sacks next year. If he has a pedestrian season, this will be brought up as a reason to get rid of him.