Performance in the trenches

[umassgrad]

If it's won in the trenches then this might explain why we continue to struggle. Dex and Thomas make the lists but no sign of KT. I don't care about his sacks against shitty teams. Did he play yesterday because I can't fine his name in the box score. It's not just on KT, there are very few Giants to be found on any lists of top performers.
ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in the trenches -- in both the run and pass game -- using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats.  Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.  In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backward; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss -- and vice versa."]ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in the trenches -- in both the run and pass game -- using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats.  Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.  In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backward; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss -- and vice versa.[/url]
ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in the trenches -- in both the run and pass game -- using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats.

Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.

In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backward; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss -- and vice versa.

ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in the trenches -- in both the run and pass game -- using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats.

Our pass rush win rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Likewise, our pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer.

In run stop win rate, a defender can earn a win by doing any of the following: beating his blocker so he's in better position to stop the runner; disrupting the pocket or running lane by pushing his blocker backward; containing the runner such that he must adjust his running lane; or recording a tackle within three yards of the line of scrimmage. If a defender earns a run stop win, his blocker earns a loss -- and vice versa.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams

[Ed Vette]

Good information Carl. Clowney was an available FA. I see Feliciano and Hernandez going to be other teams and playing well. And Tomlinson still performing. Zeitler is another player who's worst years were spent here and goes on to become an important player.

Very disappointing.

[T200]

Good information Carl. Clowney was an available FA. I see Feliciano and Hernandez going to be other teams and playing well. And Tomlinson still performing. Zeitler is another player who's worst years were spent here and goes on to become an important player.

Very disappointing.

If they are performing well for other teams, then maybe... just maybe, they actually did have some talent. And if they had some talent, why wasn't it put to proper use here?

[umassgrad]

Zeitler, Hankins, Tomlison, Hill and who could forget our former guard Will Hernandez! He couldn't block for us but now he's a pro bowler in AZ
Pro-Bowl voting is now open and Arizona Cardinals fans can now select the players they believe are good enough to attend the star-studded event held in Orlando on February 4th, 2024. It may be surprising that a 2-10 team has anyone deserving of a Pro-Bowl nod, but this player has demonstrated all season that he is one of the premier talents at his position. That player is Arizona Cardinals right guard Will Hernandez.

Offensive linemen rarely get the recognition they deserve, and it would be a shame if the amazing season that Will Hernandez has compiled comes and goes without any accolades. He has been the brightest spot on an inconsistent offensive line, and a key part of the entire offense.

The Arizona Cardinals' offensive strength this season has been their ground game, and that would not be possible without the contributions of Will Hernandez. He has shown time and time again that he is capable of using his 332-pound frame to toss around defensive linemen like they were yesterday's news. What is seen on Sundays is also backed up by stats. The most detailed analytics for interior offensive linemen support that Will Hernandez is one of the best run blockers in the NFL right now.

ESPN's analytics department created a stat called run block win rate to compare and measure offensive line performance. It is a tool that became so popular that general managers across the NFL use it as an evaluation tool. Based on this statistic, Will Hernandez ranks as the second-best run blocking guard in the entire league, behind only Eagles offensive lineman Landon Dickerson. Hernandez has won an astonishing 79% of his 243 run blocking reps, helping James Conner to achieve career highs in rushing efficiency.

[Ed Vette]

I was impressed with Hernandez at the combine and wanted him for the Giants second pick. Some here eventually came to mock that pick. Now they can pick their nose. This is what good Coaching does. Teaches players to get around small hands and short arms.

[T200]

I was impressed with Hernandez at the combine and wanted him for the Giants second pick. Some here eventually came to mock that pick. Now they can pick their nose. This is what good Coaching does. Teaches players to get around small hands and short arms.

I know I've been on my soapbox about coaching. I just hope Schoen and Daboll make some significant changes to the coaching staff this offseason.

And just to be clear for the folks who may want to come for me, I'm not saying coaching trumps talent. I'm saying coaching can take good talent and make it great, take great talent and make it elite.

[DaveBrown74]

I know I've been on my soapbox about coaching. I just hope Schoen and Daboll make some significant changes to the coaching staff this offseason.

And just to be clear for the folks who may want to come for me, I'm not saying coaching trumps talent. I'm saying coaching can take good talent and make it great, take great talent and make it elite.

I would agree with all of that, and I would also say great coaching (at least in a small sample size) can take subpar talent and create a mediocre to serviceable product. The 2022 Giants are a good example of that. We can kill Daboll and his staff for their performance this year if we want, but we can't just pretend last year didn't happen with the same people if we want to be consistent and fair. If anything last year's team was less talented than this year's.

[T200]

I would agree with all of that, and I would also say great coaching (at least in a small sample size) can take subpar talent and create a mediocre to serviceable product. The 2022 Giants are a good example of that. We can kill Daboll and his staff for their performance this year if we want, but we can't just pretend last year didn't happen with the same people if we want to be consistent and fair. If anything last year's team was less talented than this year's.

Exactly why it boggles my mind that people want to dump him after this year.

[DaveBrown74]

Exactly why it boggles my mind that people want to dump him after this year.

That viewpoint amazes me as well, but people are entitled to having it if that's legitimately how they feel.

[T200]

That viewpoint amazes me as well, but people are entitled to having it if that's legitimately how they feel.

No doubt about it. I certainly don't agree with it but I don't hold it against them either.

For me, the biggest change in the coaching staff has to be Bobby Johnson, with Kafka being a nose behind on the way out the door.

[kartanoman]

Zeitler, Hankins, Tomlison, Hill and who could forget our former guard Will Hernandez! He couldn't block for us but now he's a pro bowler in AZ
Pro-Bowl voting is now open and Arizona Cardinals fans can now select the players they believe are good enough to attend the star-studded event held in Orlando on February 4th, 2024. It may be surprising that a 2-10 team has anyone deserving of a Pro-Bowl nod, but this player has demonstrated all season that he is one of the premier talents at his position. That player is Arizona Cardinals right guard Will Hernandez.

Offensive linemen rarely get the recognition they deserve, and it would be a shame if the amazing season that Will Hernandez has compiled comes and goes without any accolades. He has been the brightest spot on an inconsistent offensive line, and a key part of the entire offense.

The Arizona Cardinals' offensive strength this season has been their ground game, and that would not be possible without the contributions of Will Hernandez. He has shown time and time again that he is capable of using his 332-pound frame to toss around defensive linemen like they were yesterday's news. What is seen on Sundays is also backed up by stats. The most detailed analytics for interior offensive linemen support that Will Hernandez is one of the best run blockers in the NFL right now.

ESPN's analytics department created a stat called run block win rate to compare and measure offensive line performance. It is a tool that became so popular that general managers across the NFL use it as an evaluation tool. Based on this statistic, Will Hernandez ranks as the second-best run blocking guard in the entire league, behind only Eagles offensive lineman Landon Dickerson. Hernandez has won an astonishing 79% of his 243 run blocking reps, helping James Conner to achieve career highs in rushing efficiency.

As a local, I can attest to this being very true. Even on the local Phoenix news, Hernandez gets talked up and they are encouraging us to get out the vote.

Quite surreal, if you ask me. If you folks back east were getting this news feed, you'd be throwing more bricks at your TV following the Iggles game the other day.

Lesson learned: either keep your TV repairman on speed dial or make it known in the stadium who, on the Giants coaching staff, needs to go.

Peace!

[kartanoman]

No doubt about it. I certainly don't agree with it but I don't hold it against them either.

For me, the biggest change in the coaching staff has to be Bobby Johnson, with Kafka being a nose behind on the way out the door.

Fans, let Dabol and Mara know. You've got two games to voice your opinion on TV and everywhere else. If Giants fans could actually be the force behind firing a head coach, then offensive lineman coach should be a walk in the park.

Peace!

[T200]

Fans, let Dabol and Mara know. You've got two games to voice your opinion on TV and everywhere else. If Giants fans could actually be the force behind firing a head coach, then offensive lineman coach should be a walk in the park.

Peace!

And Neal was a Schoen/Daboll pick. If the kid doesn't work out, that's a knock on them.

It's also true that Johnson was brought from Buffalo by Daboll. His role is more important in that his coaching not only affects the linemen but how the offense performs and succeeds as a whole.

[TDToomer]

As a local, I can attest to this being very true. Even on the local Phoenix news, Hernandez gets talked up and they are encouraging us to get out the vote.

Quite surreal, if you ask me. If you folks back east were getting this news feed, you'd be throwing more bricks at your TV following the Iggles game the other day.

Lesson learned: either keep your TV repairman on speed dial or make it known in the stadium who, on the Giants coaching staff, needs to go.

Peace!

It's very interesting to hear a perspective from a different sports market. Does anyone in the NY media encourage fans to get out and vote you favorite Giants/Jets into the Pro Bowl? I feel the Giants are always getting short changed by the fan voting due to apathy even with it's market size advantage. Wasn't it just a year ago Andrew Thomas was the 2nd highest rated Tackle and wasn't voted in to the Pro Bowl (but made 2nd team All Pro)?

[Ed Vette]

Exactly why it boggles my mind that people want to dump him after this year.

I have a theory on that. Do you want to hear it?

Daboll took over for Joe Judge who was a disciplinarian with no personality but he did preach attention to detail. Daboll is a player's Coach who was a breath of fresh air taking over a team that was brow beaten. They performed better for Daboll. I don't know how far the difference is in detail coaching. All I know is that the Training Camp was light and the team wasn't prepared for the season. It looks to me that Daboll will need a Coaching Staff that can get the players to execute at a higher level.

I do believe that Daboll's job was in jeopardy and the emergence of Tommy turned the season around. The Owners don't care about draft position. They care about a culture of winning. This is why Daboll made the change to Tyrod Taylor at halftime. The game was about to get out of hand and he needed to do whatever it took to turn that around. The media and podcasters may not get that but the HC's number one job is to win games. Not ride a media circus or develop a backup QB in season.