Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 07, 2024, 04:35:06 PMHence the reason I said, "percentage-wise". That list of the top 25 players for dropped passes is "percentage", and includes plenty of names that are considered stars of the game. Slayton has a better percentage average of caught passes. His low number of drops is not due to few passes, but ratjer that he catches more balls than average receivers..."percentage-wise"

But I couldn't agree more that "perception is reality" and perception always trumps facts and data...and Slayton has been called a pass dropping WR, so every drop screams to fans that the player is worthless, damn the facts. And you are also right that Slayton is not targeted as often as the stars of the game. And he will be targeted less now that we actually have a WR room to share the passes...and Nabers will get the bulk of them. Hopefully, some talking head doesn't call him a "pass dropper" or it will follow him throughout his career, even when he has a higher percentage of caught passes than other studs of the game

he's just gotta make one or two memorable great catches and the moniker will fall off. i believe he will do so.

Potential replacement for slayton in case that goes south?

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 06, 2024, 02:30:14 PMI hear ya...it's just that every good WR does the same thing and no one concentrates on that...only Slayton because a pundit pointed it out, and it stuck on everyone's mind. When Justin Jefferson or DeVonte Adams drops an easy catch, fans just say it's all part of the game. But when you are expecting it, you look for verification of your mindset. As I pointed out earlier, Slayton doesn't even make the top 25 NFL receivers in dropped catch percentage...nowhere near the percentage of Stefon Diggs or Garrett Wilson drops. Yet fans of those guys, take a sip of their beer, brush it off, and say "we'll get them next pass". I've seen OBJ drop perfect passes when he's wide open. The response, "he took a peak to see where he was going before the ball was in his grip"...xxxx happens. Not so with Slayton. Fans want him to drop passes so they can say, "I told you so...cuz I'm smarter than you"

And the reason Hyatt hasn't overtaken Slayton is that Slayton runs better routes. Hyatt is catching up, but not there yet. I just hope some pundit doesn't say that "Hyatt drops too many balls", or it will become the gospel of the NFL, just like the pundits who have claimed DJ throws too many interceptions. Hard to shake a mindset once a player has been accused of something by a talking head or an anonymous typer on the internet

My advice,"trust the coaches and ignore the bloviating chatter", they know far more than fans about statistics and the reality of what goes on inside the game

comes down to perception is reality. those guys are putting up 100/1400/10 seasons. slayton isnt. they could have way more drops but their production outweighs it. not entirely on slayton, but it doesnt help him

At least he can tackle. if you cant give me picks, at least make a sure tackle. lot of cb's get 2-3 lucky int's a year and miss dozens of tackles. break up plays, and keep your guy from getting YAC. im ok with this from a 3rd round pick.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 06, 2024, 08:28:17 AMDrafting just to draft a QB no longer sets a franchise back 5 years or so.  It still sets the franchise back two or three years.  With the historically low success rate (less than 50%) of first-round QBs, dating a QB hoping they will prove to be a franchise QB is not a good idea.  With the 6th pick (and with an elite WR prospect available), it would be akin to malpractice to ignore the elite prospect and reach for a QB prospect, hoping that they turn out (rather expecting) to be a franchise-caliber QB.

For what it's worth, I heard Jordan Raanan say the Giants were also high on Jayden Daniels.  So, presumably, the Giants would take a QB if one of the top three were available to them. 

i agree. you dont pass on a "as definite as possible" like nabers, for a guy that most likely will be selling real estate in a few years.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 04, 2024, 11:42:09 AMHe's gotten better over time. The thing is, once you get tagged with the moniker "drops passes", every drop is magnified a thousand times so fans can reaffirm their belief and boast that "they knew it" and "they told you so". Yet Slayton actually had fewer drops (percentage wise) than most of the WRs in the league, including J. Smith-Njigba, S. Diggs, M. Evans, G. Wilson...and in fact, didn't even make the top 25 players in the NFL for drop percentage. Last season, Slayton had 3 drops and 50 catches https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?category=receiving&season=2023&seasonType=reg&sort=rec_drops&sortOrder=desc

It's sorta like DJ and turnovers. In 2022, when he was called a "turnover machine", he was ridiculed incessantly for a turnover as it verified fans' negative opinions of him. Yet, he only had 8 turnovers in 17 games. Compare that with Dak who had 16 TOs in 12 games, or compared with Josh Allen's 19 TOs etc. Yet, every turnover by DJ brings out the haters who say, "see what I told you???". Meanwhile, Dak is being touted as a "franchise QB" by the media

Once something gets stuck in a fan's mind, they watch for, and keep track of, and magnify every fault to confirm their staunch beliefs. Fans can be brutal...especially when vying to prove they know more than others about the game and team

problem is they are HUGE drops. 50 yard perfect throws for easy td drops. they stand out more than an 7 yard out route

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 08:14:00 AMVery interesting, and I'm not surprised that the Rams are sophisticated on this stuff. They are absolutely one of the most progressive and forward-thinking teams in the league.

We (meaning the organization) on the other hand continue to employ head trainers who learned their trade during the Nixon administration, and then when our guys drop like flies at an alarming rate every single year for well over a decade, we shrug our shoulders and chalk it up to random bad luck.

yep! i mean for sure some of it is just bad luck and the nature of football, its a violent game. but for us to lead the league year after year in injuries and missed starts, you HAVE to start looking at the training staff. the giants are a loyal orginzation to a fault. EXCEPT to guys like coughlin and eli. i will never forgive them for how they did tom, even if his time was coming to an end. and ending eli's start streak in favor of geno. absolutely pitiful. yet they keep guys like barnes, and the oline coaches around for years on end.

until they prove otherwise, its not far off. we have a huge question mark coming back at qb, lost our best offensive player in barkley, dont know if a pro bowl te in waller is coming back, more new OL - and a few guys that have still yet to prove they belong, a rookie wr, a solid yet spectacular rb.

the solid teams are the ones who keep a core in place year after year. we have a different oline basically every game. dont even know who is starting at te.

yeah, its bad. i think they have the potential to be decent, but they need to prove that. as always, all starts with the oline. if they can give jones more than 2.4 seconds, and not let the rb get hit behind the LOS, we MIGHT have something.

not for nothing but i feel this is a big reason why we didnt reach for jj or penix. it would have literally been the same thing all over again, and taking a qb just to take one. i think caleb or maye are the only two we would have taken, had one of them fallen.

Quote from: Trench on May 05, 2024, 12:21:30 PMHe needs to show he can produce in the 2 minute drill both before halftime and especially at the end of the games. He has been sporadic at best in that area.

Lastly, he must win a playoff game this year and he has to beat Dallas and Philadelphia at least once each.

i think playoffs are unlikely, but yes winning in the division.. thats a big one. we arent going anywhere until we can go toe to toe with those 2 teams that have absolutely owned us over the last decade.

look the part. its still a pretty bad roster and my expectations for the team are fairly low. but as far as jones goes, dont look shell shocked. make some tight window/anticipation throws. don't get hurt. convert third downs. air it out a little bit. just look the part of a starting qb/franchise qb. stats arent always the greatest indicator, but i fully expect at least 3500/20 tds. minimum. no more 12 td seasons, its pathetic.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 05, 2024, 09:34:46 AMWhile bad decisions have certainly been made, I think the Giants have been arguably one of the unluckiest teams in the league.

Consider:

2010-  In the third round, the Giants draft a promising safety and special teamer, Chad Jones.  He has an off-season auto accident and never fully recovers.  Plays some snaps but as a shadow of his former self.

2015-  Giants star edge rusher JPP mangles hand in fireworks accident.  Eventually returns, but isn't quite the player he had been

2020-  Giants first-round cornerback Deandre Baker arrested for armed robbery.   He is eventually found innocent, but not before the Giants cut him.

2014-  Promising first-round running back David Wilson found to have stenosis in his neck and has to retire from football before his rookie contract is even finished

2016-  a last-minute video pushes Laramy Tunsil off many draft boards.  This left the Giants scrambling and they ended up drafting Eli Apple

2015- Legal questions kept La'el Collins (solid O-line prospect) from being drafted in round one.  This pushes the Giants to take Ereck Flowers instead.  Worse, Collins ends up signing as a free agent with Dallas essentially giving the Cowboys a free extra first-round pick.

Consider some of the drafted players with healthy college careers but became injury messes in the NFL

Saquon Barkley
Evan Neal
Daniel Jones
Joshua Ezeudu
Azeez Ojulari
Evan Engram
Weston Richburg
Justin Pugh
Shane Lemieux
Aaron Robinson

Guys whose careers were cut short by injury

Hakeem Nicks
Terrell Thomas
Jay Bromley
Owamagbe Odighizuwa (mental illness)
Sterling Shepard
Victor Cruz
Jake Ballard

Even OBJ suffered a major injury.

Have I missed any other bad luck issues the Giants have had the last decade or so?

EDIT TO ADD:  McKinney's fluke hand injury in 2022

definitely pretty bad, but i bad its not super far off from a lot of other teams

im pulling for him. you can certainly argue he does deserve an extension/raise, even though he's a bit expendable now with nabers in the fold. i do still think he's our current #2. which is a good role for him

Quote from: ViewFromSection129 on May 03, 2024, 03:17:15 PMWe've had next to no mid to late round hits in 15 plus years, which is why we have been stuck in the mud as a franchise.

Honorable mention to victor cruz who was undrafted.

honestly surprised he's still around. however, miami is a great landing place for him as they already have some really good receivers, and he wont need to be the go to guy