Big Blue Huddle

So are you guys really gonna do this for the next 6 months? One of us is nuts.

Quote from: Giant Jim on November 03, 2023, 08:38:04 AMThe draft only adds about 7 new players, how many on average play significant rolls for 5 years or more? They have well more than 7 already on their roster that need to play well and be a part of the future. The team has missed having a 3 game winning streak because of in game decisions and missed field goals. Thomas, Neal, Schitz, Jones and Barkley have all missed several games each. Pugh seems to be a nice fit, but he wasn't here to start the season. Tyre Phillips could a valuable asset. Waller's injury could be a blessing in disguise, now Bellinger will get better chances. Leo's departure should give Jordon Riley a chance to play and grow.

If you want them to lose to get better draft picks, then they need players like those to fail and that means total rebuild from the very bottom up.

If most of them do well and show they belong, then they can continue building and become competitive with the best teams in the league much sooner.

What's Schoen's record for drafting QB's? You think an early draft pick guarantees a great QB? How about a good one?

If you think wanting the Giants to lose will help them become a better team, lets all root for Philly and Dallas to win the super bowl so they get terrible draft picks.

There is a common feeling that if you don't get one of the top 10 guys in the draft, then you have missed out on something. The Giants are not going to be better simply by drafting a few spots higher or lower to pick up one or two guys. In the last 10 drafts they had a top 10 pick 6 times. The issue with the Giants through all the front office and coaching changes has not been with those high draft choices. The issues have been with every player drafted from round 3 to the end of the draft.

So, I don't buy into the tanking to get a shot at one or two guys at the top of the draft. What the Giants NEED to do is find more Micah McFaddens and Julian Loves in the draft. There have been entirely too few contributors coming from Day 3 selections and the depth on this team and the number of free agents they had to bring in to start or backup at key positions (Waller, Hodgins, Brieda, Campbell, Okereke, Jackson, Simmons, Pugh, Bredesen, Glowinski, and until last week, Williams) is a reflection of that. 

That's why I don't care where we draft. I'd rather take a can't miss punter in Round 4 than a great prospect with a high upside that hasn't been particularly productive due to injuries. Round 1 is for guys you think will be Pro-Bowl caliber players. The position they play shouldn't matter unless you already expect to have a Pro-Bowl player in that position next year. Position targeted players should be in Rounds 2 and later.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 02, 2023, 02:48:31 PMInjured for the Jets game:

Starting QB Daniel Jones out
Backup QB Tyrod Taylor out
no.1 TE/Receiver Darren Waller out
no.1 OT Andrew Thomas out
no.2 ER Azeez Ojulari out

It's amazing to me we were even close to winning the game with an undrafted QB and crappy play calling

Imagine Kansas City playing with Mahommes and his backup out, Travis Kelce out, and LT Donovan Smith out...in the pouring rain. I understand the "next man up" rule, but some players are irreplaceable with a weak bench

....and in spite of it all, and as bad as they have looked at times, this team is astonishingly close to being 4-4 (Buffalo, NYJ).

I don't follow the team to get to the draft. I follow the team to get to the playoffs. The last time they won the Superbowl they got off to a hot start and then lost 5 or their next 6. The fans were miserable and pessimistic and winning the last two games to make it to the playoffs seemed unlikely.......but they did.

Then they won the next one,
.....and the next one.
.....and the next one
.....and before you knew it they were raising the trophy.

It is probably my favorite season as a Giant fan. Perseverance and effort triumphed over talent as the Giants won the Superbowl with the worst rushing Offense in the league, an accomplishment I feel certain will never be repeated.

Enjoy the ride, even the detours. You never know where you will wind up.

I love the way you think. NEVER SURRENDER!

I thought before the Jets game that it was not unreasonable for the Giants to go 6-2 before the Christmas date with the Eagles. Of their opponents in that timeframe, only the Cowboys were above 0.500 in late October. I had them going 3-1 over the 4 games you listed and winning two of the next three in December. With the loss to the Jets, they will need to steal another one to go 6-2.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

I'll treat Barkley the way I look at all backup QBs for the Giants. I hope he never sees the field.

It might be fun listening to Bob Papa call the game though, "Barkley is the lone setback. Barkley hands off to Barkley, who pitches it back to Barkley. Its a flea flicker....." 

The Raiders head coaching changes over the last few years are starting to make the Giants Head coaching job look like a stable position.

I agree with the move though. A lot of players on that Offense over the last two years were very good, pro-Bowl/All-Pro players until he got there. Now they suddenly can't play or are not being used enough, not used correctly, were not resigned, or dealt away. He turned Derek Carr from one of the top rated QBs into a guy who could barely complete 60% of his passes. Garoppolo is now on pace for the worst year of his career.

Throw the ball to All-Pro Devonte Adams. Hand it off to All-Pro Josh Jacobs. You have a veteran TE and a promising rookie TE. Use them. How hard is that?

When coaching for the Raiders you still have to follow Al Davis' one rule - Just win baby. 9-16 in the new city ain't gonna cut it.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on October 30, 2023, 03:46:35 PMYeah. After the Notre Dame & UTAH games I don't see how anyone could still consider Caleb Williams a #1 overall.


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No? I think he still is. I've seen too many "can't miss" QBs slip in the draft after their senior season wasn't the dominant performance everyone expected. Josh Allen is one. Marino is the most famous. 

C-dub should be on the Giants' list if they are looking for a QB. I wouldn't hold it against him that his most polished receiver is now catching passes for the Vikings and the whole PAC-12 (PAC-10?, PAC-8?, PAC-4?, whatever...) is playing with a chip on their shoulder this season.   

Quote from: B1GBLUE on October 30, 2023, 07:26:53 AMOne of the guys on FAN called daboll a coward... rather said he is coaching cowardly, which i agreed with then, and agree with now. lot of fans got very defensive about it, but its SO true right now. I get devito is a 3rd string rookie. but jesus. give the kid a freaking chance. that strategy of throwing to barkley on the sideline 3 plays in a row... just take a knee at that point. unreal. the biggest problem is when he does make a gutsy call.. it still doesnt work. nothing is going right for him or the team right now.

I think Daboll waited until the right time to take a risk, and Gano missed the FG to put them up 6, which was a killer. The off sides by Thibodeaux was a killer. The holding penalty in overtime was a killer. The pass interference in overtime was a killer.

The players made Daboll look bad, not the other way around.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 29, 2023, 06:55:29 PMThe game wasn't over and on the course for a win when I started the thread.

Thanks for posting the win probability ED. I was wondering about that. In my 60 years of watching the Giants I continue to be amazed at the creative ways they find to lose football games to teams wearing green uniforms. 

It has been my experience that when a Kicker misses 2 short FGs in a game he has a 50/50 shot of getting shown the door in the near future. I like Gano, but he is one of the players you can point to and say "he lost them the game."

Quote from: Giantleap56 on October 29, 2023, 05:04:00 PMHe also committed the penalty that stopped the clock with 17 seconds.

Which ultimately helped them lose the game.

Lots of QBs threw for over 400 yards in a game. Most of them lost that game. Stats mean nothing without the W.

This game never should have gone to overtime. The last 6 plays in regulation,

Barkley comes up short of the first down.
Gano misses the FG. (I would love to have known the Giants' odds of winning as he lined up for that FG.)
Wilson catches 29 yard pass down the middle as Thibodeaux jumps off-sides, stopping the clock.
Alan Lazard catches a 29 yard pass.
Wilson spikes the ball with one second left.
Zurlein makes the FG Gano couldn't (and makes another a few minutes into overtime.)

When it mattered, the Jets players made the plays and the Giants players made the mistakes.

Nonsense. Daboll did everything right in regulation. As good as the Defenses were and as bad as the Offenses were, the kickers decided it. The Jets kickers badly outplayed the Giants kickers, and that was the difference.

As frustrating as that game was to watch these are the games the Giants have to win to hang around while players are trying to get healthy and the Offense is trying to find its stride. You do that by players making plays. The Defense made plays again and again. Eventually, it was the Jets players who made the plays in this one.

Thank God for bourbon. This one is hard to deal with but Daboll gave the players a chance to win it. They didn't.

I think they would like to get the ball to him more but I imagine some of the plays where they planned to do so fell apart due to inadequate line play, and as a result, the ball had to go elsewhere. I think you will see more shallow crossing routes to use his speed and get the ball out quicker instead of throwing him balls with 20+ air yards. They have started doing that with Waller who arguably has had the same issue with not being targeted enough before last week. Hyatt has a lot of promise but he still has 2 good games and 5 bad ones to date, much like the Giants. There is enough blame to go around for that between him, the way he is being used, play-calling, and inconsistent O-line and QB play.

For me, until the QB has more time I think we will continue to see the targets for Waller and Robinson go up while Hyatt gets about the same number of looks he has been getting. I don't think everyone is going to be happy with that, but until Hyatt gets more precise with his route running on shorter routes that is what I expect to see. I also think they could get him the ball more often if they were playing from ahead which has been a rarity of late. Playing from behind, the Defense can insist on not giving up the big play by blitzing and playing two deep safeties. The Giants haven't been able to hurt teams for doing that.