Big Blue Huddle

I remember a time where most wanted him over Golladay.

Now if we could just get some dlinemen and a CB2

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 08, 2024, 06:17:48 PMI tend to agree. If I'm a betting man, I'd probably give him a moderate edge to be our practice squad QB this year over Tommy D.

Do I think he'll ever see the field this year in a real game if at least one of Jones or Luck is healthy? Nope.

The Luck/Lock predictive text has gotten the better of me multiple times already lol

Quote from: Philosophers on May 08, 2024, 04:07:54 PMReplace a top 10 performance at toughest and most important NFL position with a rookie likely to do poorly?  Why not just draft one and sit him for a year?

There are also 5 starting qbs slated to hit free agency if they aren't tagged.

Dak
Trevor Lawrence
Jordan Love
Jared Goff
Tua

Plus you have other backups and fringe starters.

I think it's all about Jones health. If he stays healthy and can string together consistently good games then he'll likely be back if not I think they move forward without him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 09:16:25 AMThe part in bold is where we see things differently.  I don't do absolutes like "regardless of circumstances". I always factor in circumstances when I evaluate anything in football.  Evaluating without considering circumstances is akin to taking a quote out of context, in my opinion.

@kingm56 just the other day posted multiple examples of Qbs playing at an elite level despite having one of the worst olines in the NFL but we are supposed to give Jones a pass that he looks worse than most of the backups that started at some point last season in the same scenario.

Eli won a super bowl with a horrible offensive line but we can't even expect starter level play out of Jones? Yes the line was bad last year but that doesn't explain the 3 year arc of Jones refusing to throw down the field.

Qbs are supposed to make their team better and Jones has never done that even consistently. Pointing to a half here or a quarter here after 6 years just doesn't cut it.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 08:02:23 AMWhy did you ignore the 7th receiving targets versus the 32nd receiving targets?  Do you think that receivers don't improve a QBs production?  If not, why do you think WRs make so much money?

As to your point, 32nd is unlimited bad.  We have clear stats that show the protection was significantly worse in terms of percent of pressure and time to pressure under Jones, and even with the improvements after Jones, they were still last.  Even adding a healthy Andrew Thomas and Pugh off his coach didn't move the Giants off 32nd in pass protection.

So why do NFL teams spend so much money on receivers and offensive linemen if things like pass protection and receiving targets don't make a difference?

I didn't say they don't. A backup or any backup should not look significantly better than your 40 million dollar qb regardless of the circumstances and not one but several backup Qbs did this past season.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 08, 2024, 01:57:41 AMSure and the difference between the worst WR group and the #7 WR group couldn't have anything to do with it.  Plus, Lock was sacked 6 times in 2 games (3/game) while Jones was sacked 30 times in 5 games (6/game), just to put some context in that 28th to 32nd OL comparison.

So that would have been 18 sacks to 30 over a 6 game stretch. If you deduct the sacks that were his fault then they are about even.

The problem is that we are having this conversation at all with Jones making 40 million. I don't think Lock is really any better than Jones but the fact that it is even a conversation should be alarming.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 07, 2024, 08:05:39 PMCamp arm

I like his pocket presence significantly more than Devitos.

Quote from: AYM on May 07, 2024, 09:30:54 PMFor what it's worth, the Giants gave up 20 more sacks than the 31st place team. It could be argued that there was a giant chasm between the Giants OL and the 28th ranked line.

You could very well be 100% right as I haven't looked at the overall pressures, rankings etc and just looked at the base ratings pff gave teams olines.

The problem though is that one qb is making pennies and one is making 8× the other qb a year. So yes does the 32nd to 28th line probably make some difference, absolutely but not enough that a guy making 8× is performing underneath a guy that shouldn't be starting.

So yes we can make all the excuses for Jones in the world as some of them are viable like the oline. Multiple backups though shouldn't look significantly better than your 40 million a year quarterback.

The fact that the media pundits, analyst, and everyone else are even discussing a backup as being a better option to a qb that is making 40 million a year is the problem.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 07, 2024, 07:20:07 PMI am curious: do you think the fact that Jones was working behind the worst pass protection in the league and throwing to the worst receivers (per PFF) might have skewed last year's numbers when you compare that to Lock having the 28th pass protection, but throwing the 7th best receiver group in the league?

Is there really that big of a difference in the 28th vs the 32nd to you? 

I understand you were trying to make a point that somehow there was a huge difference in the 28th vs 32nd but there isn't, not enough to jump the stats that much. Even if you want to say they have better wrs which they do, Lock still attacked down the field while Jones did not.

Giants made a move securing Nathan Rourke after the patriots released him Monday.

Rourke was the CFL mvp in 2022 and spent the 2023 season on the Jaguars.

He threw for 3,349 yards 25 tds and 10 int in 2022 for the Canadian team. He's only 25 years old and played college football at Ohio.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/giants_add_former_cfl_star_quarterback_to_roster/s1_15032_40336894

Quote from: President Rick on May 07, 2024, 02:28:29 PMwould you prefer speed with dropsies of a sure-handed 4.5 - 4.6 runner?  As long as they catch the catchable balls and break-up possible INT's, I'm happy.  Seeing the return of Homer Jones however would make my day!!!!

Most of the elite Wrs of the past 2 decades ran a 4.5.

Jones 6 Games
Att 160
Cmpl% 68
Yards 909
Tds 2
Int 6
Yards per attempt 5.7
Yards per catch 8.4
10+ yards 33
20+ yards 9
30+ yards 1


Lock 2 Games
Att 76
Cmpl % 63.4
Yards 543
Tds 3
INT 3
Yards per attempt 7.1
Yards per catch 11.3
10+ yards 19
20+ yards 10
30+ yards 3

If Lock plays in 6 instead of 2 he'd have 706 more yards, and 7 more Tds. He would have doubled Jones 10+ yard catches, tripled his 20+ yard catches and have 8 more 30+ yard catches.

One throws down field the other does not.

Quote from: GloryDays on May 06, 2024, 11:05:17 PMWith his supporting cast it illudes to great ability, if not brilliance.

uh huh

I don't think there's anything he can do. With his health concerns even if he throws for 4,000 and 30tds which is extremely unlikely he can't be trusted to stay healthy. Plus I believe Schoen and Daboll want their own guy, which also likely buys them more time, and this will be the perfect time for them to let him go.