Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 06:52:03 PMAnd he's doing all that. This is only about a reporter stirring up xxxx. There's another rumor that there are player who are starting to lose faith in Daboll and he's on a watch list of the first to be fired. Reminds me of Gary Myers and Paul Schwartz back stabbing Tom Coughlin  2005-2006. Losing the team.

Players get aroundfrustrated and they vent, especially the young ones. Lesson learned who to trust and not trust.

Should reporters not report when they hear players vent? Coughlin admitted he had locker room issues he had to address. Since when are reporters back stabbing anyone by doing their job?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on Today at 03:15:10 PMThere seem to be many that have the view that it's coaching's fault that Hyatt isn't more productive. Is it not possible that maybe he's just not a very good NFL receiver? Not every player who was productive in college and runs a blazing 40 ends up being good in the pros.

I agree. But it could also be both. Even if a coaching staff doesn't know how to use you, it's ultimately the player's responsibility to find a role. Figure out a way to force your way on the field.

I remember when Jessie Armstead was a young player, he didn't get playing time on defense even though he showed a ton of potential. He worked hard on special teams, made a ton of plays, and made a name for himself. When a new coaching staff came in, he got his shot and became an All Pro on defense. He didn't wait for an opportunity. He made his own opportunity.

Whether or not Hyatt has the ability to be a high end starting WR, he's got to figure out a way to carve out his own role. It's his career and it's ultimately on him to force the issue.

Quote from: Gmo11 on Today at 10:46:49 AMI have absolutely no doubts that in the film room he knows exactly what to do and how to do it.

It's when he gets out on the field where the trouble occurs. He's certainly not the first and won't be the last QB with this infliction. But it doesn't appear to be curable.

Right. Classroom intelligence isn't the same as fast processing during a play.

I think a good analogy is how some chess grand masters struggle at speed chess. If you give them time, they can anticipate every possible move, but when the pressure of the clock is added they become one dimensional.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on September 19, 2024, 01:32:27 PMReading defenses [9]

Yep, we've been in QB hell for years. This thread is a testament to that (one of many).

Let me know when the Giants turn a 2nd round pick into a star player. I'd rather take a chance on a known player like Burns than another JMS, Wandale, etc. Those guys don't move the needle at all.

Quote from: Philosophers on September 16, 2024, 10:31:07 AMMany thought the addition of Caleb Williams and Rome Odunze and others would transform the Bears offense.  It has not to date.  To be successful requires so many things to happen such as a center calling out the right blocking scheme, a QB identifying the correct safety coverage and adjusting, etc.  If this sport was simply throw and catch we'd all be out there.

It has not to date? So 2 rookies who've played 2 games helps explain why Daniel Jones and the Giants offense still sucks in year 6?

The Bears have a plan for success. Whether it works out or not will be determined over the next couple years.

The Giants have no plan. They are attempting to tread water with an overpaid replacement level QB.

Every week people bring up some statistical oddity or exception from around the league. They point out poor offensive performances and then let us know that it's possible to win with a poor offensive performance.

The problem is the Giants have one of the league's weaker offenses year in and year out. You don't intentionally trot out a QB who is going to lead you to one of the worst offenses every year and then claim it's possible to win a game without scoring a lot of points.

There's no reason to spend significant cap resources on a QB who doesn't add much value beyond a replacement level player. This is painful to watch. It's long past time to move on.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on September 15, 2024, 07:36:04 PMWhen a 178 yards become something to post about we've sunken to a new low of grasping straws.

I will be thankful when we can move past the shameful Daniel Jones era. I don't remember ever going through a 6 year stretch of constant rebuilding with the same guy at QB and no real progress is his game.

Some familiar names here.

One current Giant. One former Giant. Two former 1st round picks the Giants passed on.

https://x.com/PFF/status/1833860546069938310?t=CpZxE5HonLL4hKoZin7_Hw&s=19

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 10, 2024, 07:45:23 PMIf we're going to say Gettleman set this team back a decade, that means you're saying he set the team back thorough 2027 (he was hired in late December 2017). That effectievly means you're giving Schoen a five year pass for the team to suck.

I don't think Schoen should be given a five year pass. He is in year three now. This is his team now. The fact that Gettleman's QB is still here is on Schoen, not Gettleman. The fact that an offensive tackle he took 7th overall who has been an unmitigated disaster is on him, not Gettleman. Same with picking an edge guy who looks like a day two caliber player 5th overall. Etc etc etc.

I think Gettleman was an unmitigated disaster. There are no superlatives to adequately describe how bad a GM I think he was. But if the team still stinks this year and another two years after this one, that's not on Gettleman. That's on Schoen.

I agree with this in terms of measurables. You can clear a cap and turn over a roster in a few years. The league is designed to generate parity over time. But I want to push back on the cultural aspect Gettleman brought to the Giants.

I started following the Giants in the early 80s. George Young and Bill Parcells ran the franchise in a manner that emphasized high standards and accountability for on-field performance. Parcells, for example, might comment during training camp that he thinks he has 40 NFL players and he's going to see if he can find a few more on his roster by week 1. Compare that to the current era where we hear guys whine during cut down day about all the no-names they can't believe didn't make the team. People are so afraid of exposing players who might someday develop into serviceable players. But Parcells didn't believe you could play until you showed him on the field. So, the bar back then was much higher.

When Parcells retired and Young got old, the team had a lot of ups and downs, but I believe there was the same fundamental commitment to excellence within the building. We all understood you couldn't even begin to talk about success until you showed you could compete with Dallas, Philly, and Washington. If you were significantly behind any of those three teams, nothing else you did really mattered much.

Fast forward to the Coughlin years, and we had the same commitment to excellence and high standards for our play. The problem was the GM Jerry Reese was a talented scout but didn't have enough of an understanding on how to build an organization. He could add players here and there, but his moves weren't grounded in any proven philosophy. So as the roster aged, Reese had no answers.

Next, they brought in Gettleman. I believe the idea was Gettleman would restore the old school philosophies of Young and Parcells, which Jerry Reese didn't understand.

At first it seemed like that's what Gettleman intended to do. He turned his sights on the roster and purged anyone who wasn't a boy scout. (That is not at all consistent with how Young/Parcells ran things, but that's another story).

Eventually, it became clear that Gettleman was more in love with the fame and attention than he was with restoring the Giants to greatness. So, as the media caught on that his moves were backfiring, Gettleman began relaxing the standards. He became a politician who believed his job was to manage public opinion rather than solve problems.

So after Gettleman, we ended up in an era where potential matters more than performance. Players were coddled in the media and made to feel entitled to years of on the job training. Rookies were anointed as saviors before they'd accomplished anything. Average players were talked up as if they were in the same category as our legendary players. Good players were paid as if they were difference makers. It became taboo to say "this isn't good enough."

So we're a few years removed from Gettleman, but I still think his culture is with us. That's why we see a guy like Kayvon take no accountability for his play and there's no one to check him.

It's a problem. And cultures can take years to change. I'm not sure how they restore this franchise to one of high standards. From what I've seen, Schoen is less interested in coddling his players than Gettleman was, but is he another Jerry Reese, or will he  help this organization grow into something more.

Biggest mistake happened in two parts imo. First, keeping Jerry Reese instead of cleaning house. Second, hiring Gettleman and letting him finish the organization's transition into the Jets.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on September 10, 2024, 07:57:13 AMNot to change the subject but that guy was on the board when they drafted Toney.  Could have had him playing oppposite of Thomas.

Back to the original subject:  There were questions about Thibs pre-draft and they have shown to be warranted. I think he is what we have seen.  A guy that can be a decent complementary pass rusher.  Not a guy that is going to take over games and raise the level of play from complementary players.

I think many hoped the Burns trade would help elevate Thibs and maybe it will as the season goes forward.  It seems almost improbable that a DE would not even record an assist or tackle in 41 snaps. 

Regarding Darrisaw, it's a good point. Also, if they draft Darrisaw, then they likely don't draft Neal the following year. That draft was WR rich, so maybe they pick Garrett Wilson or one of those guys.

Regarding Thibs, I remember those discussions before the draft. There were legitimate concerns. Lots of questions remain to be answered regarding the Burns/Thibs duo. They're already invested in Burns so hands are tied there, but I believe they have to make a decision on Thibs 5th year option at the end of the season. If he doesn't pick up the pace, I'm not sure if it's wise to pick up his option year. They definitely won't be picking up Neal's option.

Quote from: Trench on September 09, 2024, 11:08:45 PMDid you see the post game clip where the reporter asked Thibs about the pass rush?...ha asked "anyone else got a question?"....this is not going to go well this season if Daboll doesn't get the locker room under control

Poor form from Thibs. He's got to do better.

https://x.com/Anthony_Rivardo/status/1833260416748949989?t=6goC3L06AhFY4XB6mvV6Fw&s=19

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 09, 2024, 10:40:46 PMSo the 2022 draft, in which we had a 5th overall pick and a 7th overall pick, consisted of:

(1) Kayvon Thibodeaux: a decent but overall disappointing player relative to reasonable expectations.

(2) Evan Neal: an unmitigated, massive, all time draft bust of the highest order up there with Ron Dayne and Cedric Jones.


It almost feels like Schoen should be fired for the above alone. And that doesn't even begin to address the fact that he is paying the worst starting QB in the NFL $40mm a year!

Devastating. Yeah, it really creates a lot of doubt about the regime.