Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:54:51 AM@DaveBrown74 and @kingm56

Remember last year when everyone ignored the Eagles' losing both their OC and DC and predicted a repeated trip to the Super Bowl? The Cowboys lost their very talented DC this past offseason (along with a number of veteran starters). Those sorts of losses tend to go under the radar but are often the most impactful.

They replaced Dan Quinn with Mike Zimmer who is probably just as good a DC.

Quote from: nb587 on May 03, 2024, 04:48:41 PMBingo.  It's scary what the Giants would have been like if George Young never came.  And, Wellington would never have hired him if he wasn't forced to.

The Detroit Lions, that's what we would've been.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 09:07:19 AMYet, they still won 11 games and made the playoffs.   This place went crazy when we won 9 games; so, I don't see 11 wins as a failure, despite how they finished.

If OC/DC were the primary issue, they would have struggled out the gate as players were learning the new systems; however, the reverse happened.  Even good teams go through spells; it happens all the time.  Regardless, I suspect they'll win double-digit games again this season, but will wait until Aug to make any real predictions. 

Matt,

I am confused.  The expectation for the Eagles (and this seemed to be a strong consensus) was that they would be returning to the Super Bowl.  How does putting up 11 wins (and making the playoffs) while suffering an embarrassing end-of-season loss to the Giants and immediately getting booted from the playoffs in a butt-kicking by the Bucs suggest the Eagles met expectations?

Quote from: Trench on Today at 09:10:22 AMEvery QB has had flashes of brilliance. That is not a good argument

This comment sort of reflects the issue with discussing Jones.  Uncle Mickey had "showed flashes of brilliance" as a part of an argument.  The Jones critics focused on that part of the argument and first claimed Jones never showed brilliance.  Then, when you show historic accomplishments that any reasonable person would say was a flash of brilliance, the goalposts were moved, and it was claimed failed QBs had shown flashes of brilliance (not sure what that even means in context to UM's original point).  Finally, we have an entire point Uncle Mickey made thrown out, and it's declared the point that Jones has shown flashes of brilliance is now the entire argument, and clearly, that argument is a "bad one."

How can there be quality conversation in conditions like that?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 09:05:11 AMBut that's what happens when Qbs go to a bad team, they either rise above it or they don't. I don't hear anyone going to bat for Evan Neal or any other offensive player that have equally been failed by being on a team with Daniel Jones, but it's ok for them to all be used as an excuse for him. A 6th year player who still puts up advanced stats like a backup in year 6. Just wild that some can't see Jones is a huge reason for the bad offense.

Jess,

QB's rising above terrible situations is extremely rare.  Sometimes, what appears to be a QB rising above a bad situation is more illusion than reality.  The Texans and CJ Stroud is a perfect example.  The 2022 Texans were a terrible team.  Yet, between FA additions, an extremely good draft, and a major coaching upgrade, the 2023 Texans were much better regardless of the addition of CJ Stroud. 

I guess you can look at first-overall pick QB like Lawerence or highly touted Herbert as players who put up pretty good stats (although in situations considerably better than Jones had).  Still, while their raw stats were pretty good (although in the case of Lawerence, they are on par with DJ's), their team's success didn't reflect their QB's success

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 07:22:43 AMI'll grant you that point; however, that's not the point being discussed here. The point was made that high-performing Oline(s) were the most critical component to Eli's and Brady's success, during thier primes. Clearly, that statement is factually false. 

BTW, Eli was fairly consistent between 2008 and 15, regardless of his oline rankings:

2008*   27   NYG   QB   16   289   479   60.3   3238   21   10   86.4   66.9   PB
2009   28   NYG   QB   16   317   509   62.3   4021   27   14   93.1   71.7   
2010   29   NYG   QB   16   339   539   62.9   4002   31   25   85.3   57.7   
2011*   30   NYG   QB   16   359   589   61   4933   29   16   92.9   64.2   AP CPoY-6, PB
2012*   31   NYG   QB   16   321   536   59.9   3948   26   15   87.2   67   PB
2013   32   NYG   QB   16   317   551   57.5   3818   18   27   69.4   38.6   
2014   33   NYG   QB   16   379   601   63.1   4410   30   14   92.1   61   
2015*   34   NYG   QB   16   387   618   62.6   4432   35   14   93.6   57.9   PB

Age clearly caught up with him during the 2016+ seasons...

Great stuff as usual king 👊

Every QB has had flashes of brilliance. That is not a good argument

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:54:51 AM@DaveBrown74 and @kingm56

Remember last year when everyone ignored the Eagles' losing both their OC and DC and predicted a repeated trip to the Super Bowl? The Cowboys lost their very talented DC this past offseason (along with a number of veteran starters). Those sorts of losses tend to go under the radar but are often the most impactful.

Yet, they still won 11 games and made the playoffs.   This place went crazy when we won 9 games; so, I don't see 11 wins as a failure, despite how they finished.

If OC/DC were the primary issue, they would have struggled out the gate as players were learning the new systems; however, the reverse happened.  Even good teams go through spells; it happens all the time.  Regardless, I suspect they'll win double-digit games again this season, but will wait until Aug to make any real predictions. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:46:22 AMYes, but it's frustrating to hear fans talk like Jones has been put in a normal NFL QB situation.  Jones has had shortcomings; like any QB (potentially more), Jones has shortcomings.  It's just frustrating that some fans seem not to acknowledge the terrible (and it's really been some of the worst in the NFL) support he has received in his NFL career.

But that's what happens when Qbs go to a bad team, they either rise above it or they don't. I don't hear anyone going to bat for Evan Neal or any other offensive player that have equally been failed by being on a team with Daniel Jones, but it's ok for them to all be used as an excuse for him. A 6th year player who still puts up advanced stats like a backup in year 6. Just wild that some can't see Jones is a huge reason for the bad offense.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:52:38 AMThe only way a team sustains cap health, long-term, is to consistently draft well.  That has not been the case for the Giants for a long time.

Rich,

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 08:43:11 AMOne of the things a lot of people forget, Schoen inherited a "cap hell" situation, which delays a rebuild if you stay focused on fixing the cap. And it seems, Schoen has done a decent job of getting it into reasonable shape

Not sure anyone has forgotten it, but he did sign Jones to that extension and made a good but expensive trade and sign with Burns.   Further, missing on OL in the draft has caused the team to have to sign OL annually for more than draft picks would cost.

IMO, for a team that has been as poor as the Giants, the cap isn't great right now.