Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 11, 2023, 10:45:13 AMMassive stretch?


Carl Williams, Caleb's father, told Sam Schube of GQ that his son could return to school if he feels uncomfortable with the team that might select him:

"The funky thing about the NFL draft process is, he'd almost be better off not being drafted than being drafted first. The system is completely backwards," he says. "The way the system is constructed, you go to the worst possible situation. The worst possible team, the worst organization in the league—because of their desire for parity—gets the first pick. So it's the gift and the curse. I mean, I've talked to Archie Manning—his career was shot because he went to a horrible organization. I've talked to Lincoln [Riley], and Kyler [Murray] struggled because of where he was drafted. Baker [Mayfield] struggled mightily because of where he was drafted. The organizations matter. ... He's got two shots at the apple. So if there's not a good situation, the truth is, he can come back to school."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10088461-caleb-williams-father-usc-qb-could-return-if-2024-nfl-draft-landing-spot-isnt-good

There's possibility and probability. Yes, it's possible for him to go back to school. But the ramifications and potential scenarios where something could not fall they way they expect affects the probability. Sure, he *can* go back to school. But *will* he? Too many factors in play.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 11, 2023, 10:45:13 AMMassive stretch?


Carl Williams, Caleb's father, told Sam Schube of GQ that his son could return to school if he feels uncomfortable with the team that might select him:

"The funky thing about the NFL draft process is, he'd almost be better off not being drafted than being drafted first. The system is completely backwards," he says. "The way the system is constructed, you go to the worst possible situation. The worst possible team, the worst organization in the league—because of their desire for parity—gets the first pick. So it's the gift and the curse. I mean, I've talked to Archie Manning—his career was shot because he went to a horrible organization. I've talked to Lincoln [Riley], and Kyler [Murray] struggled because of where he was drafted. Baker [Mayfield] struggled mightily because of where he was drafted. The organizations matter. ... He's got two shots at the apple. So if there's not a good situation, the truth is, he can come back to school."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10088461-caleb-williams-father-usc-qb-could-return-if-2024-nfl-draft-landing-spot-isnt-good

Unless he can orchestrate what team he goes to, this is all jabber and jockeying. Yes the reality is it is a massive stretch. And if he returns for another year, he faces the same scenario as this year. People got to understand that, unless you got a top pick via a trade, the team picking that high will be bad. This is a very silly scenario. Now if the Giants were Jacksonville or Houston I'd get it. Wait. Top QBs went there anyway. Ridiculous.

Or QBs could look at Daniel Jones and say "that guy got paid $40MM to throw 15 TDs? Imagine what I could get if I perform better!"

My point is not that anyone is, will, or definitely has such a reaction... but that we're in fantasy land prognosticating situations that are still in flux and outcomes that may never come to pass. If it's fun, I guess go ahead, I just find it wasted motion.

Quote from: T200 on October 11, 2023, 10:52:35 AMThere's possibility and probability. Yes, it's possible for him to go back to school. But the ramifications and potential scenarios where something could not fall they way they expect affects the probability. Sure, he *can* go back to school. But *will* he? Too many factors in play.

If the Cardinals or Bears end up with the #1 pick and Williams doesn't want to go there it's more likely that he would pull an Elway/Eli.  It's extremely far fetched that he would reject coming to the Giants because Daniel Jones flopped.

Quote from: katkavage on October 11, 2023, 10:53:48 AMUnless he can orchestrate what team he goes to, this is all jabber and jockeying. Yes the reality is it is a massive stretch. And if he returns for another year, he faces the same scenario as this year. People got to understand that, unless you got a top pick via a trade, the team picking that high will be bad. This is a very silly scenario. Now if the Giants were Jacksonville or Houston I'd get it. Wait. Top QBs went there anyway. Ridiculous.

And even Trevor Lawrence didn't refuse to play for Jacksonville after what happened to Blake Bortles and Stroud didn't reject playing for Houston with the revolving door they've been.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 11, 2023, 10:56:43 AMOr QBs could look at Daniel Jones and say "that guy got paid $40MM to throw 15 TDs? Imagine what I could get if I perform better!"

My point is not that anyone is, will, or definitely has such a reaction... but that we're in fantasy land prognosticating situations that are still in flux and outcomes that may never come to pass. If it's fun, I guess go ahead, I just find it wasted motion.

That's a good point it shows that the Giants franchise will be extremely patient and loyal to you giving you every opportunity to prove yourself whereas other franchise will look to move on after your rookie contract if you don't prove that you're the guy.

Daniel Jones did very little outside of being average. At times he played poorly for stretches. There has been more bad and average than there was great.

Yet he was paid big money

Coming to NY won't be an issue for anyone. There is no rush to start immediately, there will be time to learn, adjust, and acclimate. There will be another draft class, FA group, and some UDFAs to fortify the roster further than it already has.

Very few players the next 2 offseasons that can be labeled definite must re-signs as well with contracts expiring. Rookies will have a year too. People act and talk as if next season the QB will be the only new player on the team, which does not make sense to me

Quote from: katkavage on October 11, 2023, 10:23:01 AMIt's not their call to make. There are worse fates in life than being a high first round pick of the NY Giants. Ask Eli  Manning who made sure he went to the Giants. It is ridiculous to believe a college QB would reject draft status for a year just to avoid being picked by a team in the biggest media market in the world.

Sounds reasonable..but Peyton wanted no part of the Jets as a first pick..and went back to the Vols. Just saying..

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 11, 2023, 10:34:20 AMName, Image, and Likeness give QBs who still have eligibility new found freedom and flexibility.  In the past, QBs had to pass up getting millions of dollars to stay in college, now, they can earn millions of dollars staying in college.

While true, the QB in question would never even talk to the prospective teams that might draft him so the theoretical dialogue you crafted would never happen.  If you're returning to school, you have to make that decision without any dialogue with NFL teams, and I believe you can't even sign an agent without spoiling your eligibility.  The only info they might have is that you can request the NFL provide you with an estimate on what round you might be drafted in before making your choice. 

Even if they were able to evaluate the draft order and feel confident where they might go, there's no stopping a trade-up after declaration for the draft, at which point you can't go back to college.  Once you're in, you're in, and outside of pulling an Eli Manning, there's very little you can do about it other than potentially sit out an entire year and re-enter the draft the following year, sans a college season.

I'm not worried at all about top QB prospects refusing to be drafted by (ie play for) the Giants. Sure our recent history has been very poor but it's still a blue blood franchise. No team picking in the top 3 in any year is in good shape in the near term. A great QB can change all that. Look at Burrow in Cincy or what appears to be ongoing in Jacksonville with Lawrence.

The point of this topic was't, "Would a top QB prospect want to play here"  It was about DJ's injury and if this gives Schoen an "out" or a built in excuse to draft a top QB.  He could easily say we would love DJ to be our QB until he retires but he has had multiple injuries and this latest one could be the most serious.  This is also a conversation that could be had with a top QB.  We liked the guy we had but unfortunately injuries forced our hand and we had to go back to the well.

Quote from: WheresDayne on October 11, 2023, 01:05:31 PMThe point of this topic was't, "Would a top QB prospect want to play here"  It was about DJ's injury and if this gives Schoen an "out" or a built in excuse to draft a top QB.  He could easily say we would love DJ to be our QB until he retires but he has had multiple injuries and this latest one could be the most serious.  This is also a conversation that could be had with a top QB.  We liked the guy we had but unfortunately injuries forced our hand and we had to go back to the well.

Fair enough. Apologies for getting off topic.

Quote from: WheresDayne on October 11, 2023, 01:05:31 PMThe point of this topic was't, "Would a top QB prospect want to play here"  It was about DJ's injury and if this gives Schoen an "out" or a built in excuse to draft a top QB.  He could easily say we would love DJ to be our QB until he retires but he has had multiple injuries and this latest one could be the most serious.  This is also a conversation that could be had with a top QB.  We liked the guy we had but unfortunately injuries forced our hand and we had to go back to the well.

I think it comes down to where the Giants finish and where they are slotted to pick in the first round of next spring's draft.  If they are in a position to draft an elite QB prospect due to a poor record this season that will be Schoen's out to draft a QB.

The oline Is bad but Daniel Jones does not help the oline at all, infact he makes them worse. I'd imagine Caleb Williams or Sheddur Sanders would play significantly better behind the same offensive line.

The oline can't be the excuse, CJ Stroud is playing behind a bad Oline, Burrow went to a super bowl with a bad oline. Elite Qbs lift up the people around them and Jones has never done that, ever.

With a different qb we likely don't have half the sacks the oline has given up currently.

Quote from: WheresDayne on October 11, 2023, 01:05:31 PMThe point of this topic was't, "Would a top QB prospect want to play here"  It was about DJ's injury and if this gives Schoen an "out" or a built in excuse to draft a top QB.  He could easily say we would love DJ to be our QB until he retires but he has had multiple injuries and this latest one could be the most serious.  This is also a conversation that could be had with a top QB.  We liked the guy we had but unfortunately injuries forced our hand and we had to go back to the well.

Jones' horrible play gives them the out. The earliest they could realistically release him is June 2025. So he'll be here next year unless some dumb team comes and trades for him

Would anyone go the Brock Osweiler route?

I would not but curious what others think.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 11, 2023, 12:56:35 PMI'm not worried at all about top QB prospects refusing to be drafted by (ie play for) the Giants. Sure our recent history has been very poor but it's still a blue blood franchise. No team picking in the top 3 in any year is in good shape in the near term. A great QB can change all that. Look at Burrow in Cincy or what appears to be ongoing in Jacksonville with Lawrence.

However, they see how terrible this OL is; they might even be playing behind a better line right now.