This is something I know Lenn would be interested in and just wondering other's reaction. The first 20 minutes sums most of it up.
https://youtu.be/cGRroNrNGso
Actually, it doesn't matter whether anyone on the video is telling the truth, or whether they're crackpots, or whether they're just conspiracy theorists.
No matter what they say, the IDEA itself is true. I have been worried about the legislation passed in the wake of 9-11 since the day I heard what was in the bill.
This is just an extension of that. We must be vigilant at all times to protect our rights and to challenge those who would take them away.... gradually, or all at once.
Bob
Quote from: Ed Vette on July 06, 2021, 10:47:06 AM
This is something I know Lenn would be interested in and just wondering other's reaction. The first 20 minutes sums most of it up.
https://youtu.be/cGRroNrNGso
I am interested in it. I just do not have 90 minutes to watch it right now. I did watch the first 10 minutes and it piqued my interest so myself and Doris will watch it sometime this week. Thanks
The Pentagon's own pilots have become a nuisance to them.
Quote from: Bob In PA on July 06, 2021, 11:52:01 AM
Actually, it doesn't matter whether anyone on the video is telling the truth, or whether they're crackpots, or whether they're just conspiracy theorists.
No matter what they say, the IDEA itself is true. I have been worried about the legislation passed in the wake of 9-11 since the day I heard what was in the bill.
This is just an extension of that. We must be vigilant at all times to protect our rights and to challenge those who would take them away.... gradually, or all at once.
Bob
Same here, Bob. We lost a lot of privacy after 9-11. This past week there was some encouragement in taking away some of that Presidential power to declare war on any threat. Watch the video, I'm interested in your take.
Quote from: Ed Vette on July 06, 2021, 01:31:06 PM
Same here, Bob. We lost a lot of privacy after 9-11. This past week there was some encouragement in taking away some of that Presidential power to declare war on any threat. Watch the video, I'm interested in your take.
Ed: I watched the entire video and skimmed through it a second time.
My view is... the more people it takes to go to war, the better. I'll bet you agree.
In fact, being closest to libertarian of any ideology, I believe that the more people it takes for the government to do anything, the better, and the less "stuff" the government does, the better (as a general rule).
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on July 06, 2021, 01:53:38 PM
Ed: I watched the entire video and skimmed through it a second time.
My view is... the more people it takes to go to war, the better. I'll bet you agree.
In fact, being closest to libertarian of any ideology, I believe that the more people it takes for the government to do anything, the better, and the less "stuff" the government does, the better (as a general rule).
Bob
My guess is that Ayn Rand would agree with you too. Although at some point Objectivism crosses a line for me.
I couldn't get more than a few minutes of this video. It appeared to be a video filled with conspiracy theories about UFOs. Bob's comments have me very confused
Quote from: MightyGiants on July 06, 2021, 04:02:47 PM
I couldn't get more than a few minutes of this video. It appeared to be a video filled with conspiracy theories about UFOs. Bob's comments have me very confused
Rich: That's just the surface of a much larger, more dangerous, and more significant underlying theme.
The point is.... above all, beware of "false flag" excuses (1) to justify expanding the military-industrial complex beyond reason; and (2) to justify further erosion of constitutional rights.
With or without good reason, the particular warning in the video relates to attempts to justify a "new world order" based on supposed necessity to prepare ourselves against an attack from outer space (the false flag).
Bob
I said I needed time to watch this video and we have just finished it.
Where to start. In reality, I would love to sit down with a few people and really discuss this video and this person's thoughts on our world, but as of now, we can't so let me offer my thoughts, long as they may be.
I had watched (at least some of it) Greer's CE5 and couldn't get past 1/2 of it. I know only a pedestrian amount on this subject, but I feel this person is the kook out there. For sure, he may well be the one guy who cried wolf and no one believed but after watching this video, my first thoughts are he is just like Donald Trump. Say something that you have no proof of, 1000 times, and people will believe it. Look at Trump's big lie, and about 1/2 of the GOP still believe it.
OK, on the Greer. after watching for 1 and 1/2 hours and listening to his theories, I asked my wife what proof does he show anyone that these theories are true?. Seems everyone he asked to confirm what he was saying either wouldn't say it on record or declined to even speak. Every 'expert' from the other side was lying, exaggerating, and following along with the cover-up. WHY. For what purpose? Let's take Loius Elizondo. I have watched his great series on UFOs on the History Channel for 2 seasons and I truly believe he is NOT the faker, the pentagon's stooge, that Greer makes him out to be. He has gone around for years now, getting ex or present military men, pilots, police officers, anyone who might be believed, when talking about UFOs, to comment, most for the first time, on their encounters. NONE of these admissions said any of the encounters logged, were false and made up. These were from people who did experience an encounter with a UFO, yet Greer dismisses all of this as lies and a hoax. Just a complete disrespect to these men and women who came on to tell their stories for the first time. If you want to believe cover-up, you have every right to do so, just as you have a right to believe Trump's lies, but I found these people's stories compelling and truthful.
Greer does not deny that UFOs exist, at least, we agree on something. I also agree that because of Hollywood, probably, UFOs and aliens have always been portrayed as the enemy and as scary beings. So why shouldn't we be wary of them, they are the unknown and is human nature, we fear the unknown. Only ET and The Day The Earth Stood Still are the only movies I can remember where aliens are portrayed as good.
Greer goes on to say that those films from the Navy with their encounter with that UFO are faked. WHY? where is any proof except for his delusion. That is utter nonsense, especially when you have or show no proof whatsoever. So all these pilots who encountered these objects were in on it, or the objects were just faked? REALLY. Give me a break here.
I do agree that whatever aliens may be out there are not here to harm us. Farthest thing from my mind. If they wanted to, they could have done whatever they wanted for years. I also believe that we have had experience with UFOs and aliens and we are probably trying to, or already have, used the info we have gotten from them, to develop crafts of our own. I have said to Doris many times, I'll bet many of these reported sightings are of our own things, doing tests, etc. but that does not cover the entire group. Maybe 90% can be explained, but what about the other 10%.
I also believe that whatever aliens are out there they are bidding their time to see if we are any danger to them. Why attack us, if we are so far behind them and pose no danger to them?. They're just observers right now, but yes, to many, any unknown is a danger so they are portrayed that way.
I could go on and on. As I watched, I just ask myself, where is the proof of what he is stating? He has seemingly made up a story and has run with it for all it's worth, gaining him support and some fame. Why should I, or anyone else believe him? I fully understand that there are always people looking for conspiracy theories about the government, continually, so why believe this one.
As I said, he may be the one person in a million that has tried to warn us and no one believed him, but for now, to me, he is just as much a kook as the guy with a placard saying the world will end if we don't repent.
Quote from: LennG on July 10, 2021, 03:48:08 PM
I said I needed time to watch this video and we have just finished it.
Where to start. In reality, I would love to sit down with a few people and really discuss this video and this person's thoughts on our world, but as of now, we can't so let me offer my thoughts, long as they may be.
I had watched (at least some of it) Greer's CE5 and couldn't get past 1/2 of it. I know only a pedestrian amount on this subject, but I feel this person is the kook out there. For sure, he may well be the one guy who cried wolf and no one believed but after watching this video, my first thoughts are he is just like Donald Trump. Say something that you have no proof of, 1000 times, and people will believe it. Look at Trump's big lie, and about 1/2 of the GOP still believe it.
OK, on the Greer. after watching for 1 and 1/2 hours and listening to his theories, I asked my wife what proof does he show anyone that these theories are true?. Seems everyone he asked to confirm what he was saying either wouldn't say it on record or declined to even speak. Every 'expert' from the other side was lying, exaggerating, and following along with the cover-up. WHY. For what purpose? Let's take Loius Elizondo. I have watched his great series on UFOs on the History Channel for 2 seasons and I truly believe he is NOT the faker, the pentagon's stooge, that Greer makes him out to be. He has gone around for years now, getting ex or present military men, pilots, police officers, anyone who might be believed, when talking about UFOs, to comment, most for the first time, on their encounters. NONE of these admissions said any of the encounters logged, were false and made up. These were from people who did experience an encounter with a UFO, yet Greer dismisses all of this as lies and a hoax. Just a complete disrespect to these men and women who came on to tell their stories for the first time. If you want to believe cover-up, you have every right to do so, just as you have a right to believe Trump's lies, but I found these people's stories compelling and truthful.
Greer does not deny that UFOs exist, at least, we agree on something. I also agree that because of Hollywood, probably, UFOs and aliens have always been portrayed as the enemy and as scary beings. So why shouldn't we be wary of them, they are the unknown and is human nature, we fear the unknown. Only ET and The Day The Earth Stood Still are the only movies I can remember where aliens are portrayed as good.
Greer goes on to say that those films from the Navy with their encounter with that UFO are faked. WHY? where is any proof except for his delusion. That is utter nonsense, especially when you have or show no proof whatsoever. So all these pilots who encountered these objects were in on it, or the objects were just faked? REALLY. Give me a break here.
I do agree that whatever aliens may be out there are not here to harm us. Farthest thing from my mind. If they wanted to, they could have done whatever they wanted for years. I also believe that we have had experience with UFOs and aliens and we are probably trying to, or already have, used the info we have gotten from them, to develop crafts of our own. I have said to Doris many times, I'll bet many of these reported sightings are of our own things, doing tests, etc. but that does not cover the entire group. Maybe 90% can be explained, but what about the other 10%.
I also believe that whatever aliens are out there they are bidding their time to see if we are any danger to them. Why attack us, if we are so far behind them and pose no danger to them?. They're just observers right now, but yes, to many, any unknown is a danger so they are portrayed that way.
I could go on and on. As I watched, I just ask myself, where is the proof of what he is stating? He has seemingly made up a story and has run with it for all it's worth, gaining him support and some fame. Why should I, or anyone else believe him? I fully understand that there are always people looking for conspiracy theories about the government, continually, so why believe this one.
As I said, he may be the one person in a million that has tried to warn us and no one believed him, but for now, to me, he is just as much a kook as the guy with a placard saying the world will end if we don't repent.
Thanks for your feedback, Lenn.
Quote from: Ed Vette on July 11, 2021, 03:19:30 PM
Thanks for your feedback, Lenn.
That's it Ed? I would like a discussion and hear your thoughts. No debates, no disagreements, and I am always looking to hear another side of things. Do YOU agree with this theory and why?
Quote from: LennG on July 11, 2021, 06:09:33 PM
That's it Ed? I would like a discussion and hear your thoughts. No debates, no disagreements, and I am always looking to hear another side of things. Do YOU agree with this theory and why?
Ok, I didn't want to ask for your opinion and then disrespect you by putting my two cents in. Give me some time to gather my thoughts.
Lenn, I
Ed
You know how I feel about UFOs and alien visitation to this planet. I fully believe in it, we have been visited, we are still being visited and this planet has been watched forever and helped along in its development. Proof, on paper there is none, but, to me anyway, there is no way certain things have been built, created, and all that without some sort of 'help' along the way. Let's leave that for now.
Also, to me, there is no doubt that the government has, and still is, covering some things up. No doubt at all. Why is the question.? According to Greer, I still don't know why? But I do not see things the way he sees them, the way he presents them, as basically everything is a cover-up, everyone is lying, and only he is exposing the truth. As I said previously, as I was watching the video, I likened him to Trump, basically saying I am telling the truth and everyone else is lying and covering up the truth, yet there is absolutely no proof that this is so.
Greer basically said those Navy pilots, whose video of that UFOs, were in on the plot, and everyone else, including every abductee, were lying, and only he is there to expose the truth. While I doubt many of the abductee's stories I have heard, as you mentioned, there are some, that are so credible, that you just have to believe what you are hearing, even if you want to doubt it.
Doris is really into these UFO shows, a lot more than me. I have watched many of the shows on History Channel among other stations and they all have the same characters on, telling everyone about UFO researchers, etc., etc. and they are just as many kooks as Greer is to me. All these people do is spread one side to the story and basically insist it's the truth and never even give any credence to a possible explanation. There is one guy on these shows (forget his name but he has wild hair and his first name is George). If I see him give any statement, I immediately turn it off. He is really a kook, to the nth degree.
As I mentioned in my other post, there is a guy Louis Elizondo, who was mentioned several times in Greer's video, who he blatantly dismissed as a shill for the government. He has put out terrific shows on his investigations of UFOs. They have been on the History channel (I believe) and they are honest, to the point and if you had doubts, you may not after listening to him interview legitimate, reliable witnesses. He has been on 60 minutes among other shows and, to me anyway, is not part of any government cover-up.
Look, it all boils down to whether or not you believe. Greer, like Elizondo, tells us there is proof of Aliens and we believe that part. Both suggest a government cover-up of the knowledge that the government has and we both believe that. Where Greer loses me, is that he basically says everyone else is lying and only he is telling the truth. Everything that is white is really black and if we don't listen to him, we are all doomed. He really doesn't say doomed to what, or what the effects are if we don't listen to him.
Just like Trump, where is the proof.?
If you look at a map, the USA is not a particularly large portion of the planet. So I think a reasonable assumption is that if UFOs have visited this planet, they have visited more than just the USA. So if one wants to believe that the government is covering up the existence of UFOs and proof of alien life, one would have to assume any other nations (friends and foes alike) would be in on the coverup. Plus the aliens themselves would be in on the coverup since they clearly have decided not to make their existence known.
Quote from: MightyGiants on July 12, 2021, 01:17:51 PM
If you look at a map, the USA is not a particularly large portion of the planet. So I think a reasonable assumption is that if UFOs have visited this planet, they have visited more than just the USA. So if one wants to believe that the government is covering up the existence of UFOs and proof of alien life, one would have to assume any other nations (friends and foes alike) would be in on the coverup. Plus the aliens themselves would be in on the coverup since they clearly have decided not to make their existence known.
We have been told, and been shown, that there have been several UFO sightings and many UFOs have been described in several various shapes and sizes. I still believe many of these so-called sightings are of experimental aircraft that our government is trying out. I believe that is why many more of the sightings are here in the USA, but there have been enough sightings all over the world to say, it can't just be our government. If the UFOs are of different shapes etc. they it has to be assumed that we are being visited by more than one species of Alien life, maybe even several.
MY theory is that we pose no threat to any of these aliens so they have no reason to appear or basically let their real presence be known. They are doing what they feel is proper, letting people, or governments, know they ARE out there, monitoring us and when we do become any sort of threat to THEM, they will make their presence known whether as friends or enemies. Only time will tell.
People say, why don't they just land on the Whiter House lawn? Why should they?. What would they gain from that.? They are the superior race and they basically control the skies. We are of no threat to them, so why bother making any sort of contact. For us, that is too much Hollywood. If they wanted to conquer us, they probably could do it without breaking a sweat, but, for now, let's just observe us and see how we react.
Quote from: LennG on July 12, 2021, 01:07:28 PM
Ed
You know how I feel about UFOs and alien visitation to this planet. I fully believe in it, we have been visited, we are still being visited and this planet has been watched forever and helped along in its development. Proof, on paper there is none, but, to me anyway, there is no way certain things have been built, created, and all that without some sort of 'help' along the way. Let's leave that for now.
Also, to me, there is no doubt that the government has, and still is, covering some things up. No doubt at all. Why is the question.? According to Greer, I still don't know why? But I do not see things the way he sees them, the way he presents them, as basically everything is a cover-up, everyone is lying, and only he is exposing the truth. As I said previously, as I was watching the video, I likened him to Trump, basically saying I am telling the truth and everyone else is lying and covering up the truth, yet there is absolutely no proof that this is so.
Greer basically said those Navy pilots, whose video of that UFOs, were in on the plot, and everyone else, including every abductee, were lying, and only he is there to expose the truth. While I doubt many of the abductee's stories I have heard, as you mentioned, there are some, that are so credible, that you just have to believe what you are hearing, even if you want to doubt it.
Doris is really into these UFO shows, a lot more than me. I have watched many of the shows on History Channel among other stations and they all have the same characters on, telling everyone about UFO researchers, etc., etc. and they are just as many kooks as Greer is to me. All these people do is spread one side to the story and basically insist it's the truth and never even give any credence to a possible explanation. There is one guy on these shows (forget his name but he has wild hair and his first name is George). If I see him give any statement, I immediately turn it off. He is really a kook, to the nth degree.
As I mentioned in my other post, there is a guy Louis Elizondo, who was mentioned several times in Greer's video, who he blatantly dismissed as a shill for the government. He has put out terrific shows on his investigations of UFOs. They have been on the History channel (I believe) and they are honest, to the point and if you had doubts, you may not after listening to him interview legitimate, reliable witnesses. He has been on 60 minutes among other shows and, to me anyway, is not part of any government cover-up.
Look, it all boils down to whether or not you believe. Greer, like Elizondo, tells us there is proof of Aliens and we believe that part. Both suggest a government cover-up of the knowledge that the government has and we both believe that. Where Greer loses me, is that he basically says everyone else is lying and only he is telling the truth. Everything that is white is really black and if we don't listen to him, we are all doomed. He really doesn't say doomed to what, or what the effects are if we don't listen to him.
Just like Trump, where is the proof.?
You might be interested in this Elizondo interview.
https://youtu.be/aAmFlLfsZKM
Quote from: Ed Vette on July 13, 2021, 11:43:17 AM
You might be interested in this Elizondo interview.
https://youtu.be/aAmFlLfsZKM
Another hour and a half video. I will definitely watch it when I can. The grandkids will be here for a week on Friday so a lot of my spare time will be gone.
I look forward to watching this very much.
Set aside for a second whether or not these sightings are aliens.
Why is it the government is not simply laughing this off? That's what they used to do.
What is your most cynical or non-cynical take?
Quote from: jimmyz on July 20, 2021, 06:59:09 PM
Set aside for a second whether or not these sightings are aliens.
Why is it the government is not simply laughing this off? That's what they used to do.
What is your most cynical or non-cynical take?
There is just too many of them recently and they would lose credibility to deny them especially since many of the sightings have come from the Military. There have been comments that they have significantly more they haven't shared. They claim they don't know what they are. It's possible these Tic-Tac type craft could be holographic or from another government. Russia has claimed they have weapon technology that can be deployed at many times faster than the speed of sound. It's the lack of any means of propulsion, sound barrier noise or water wake. They have moved to the destination of where a military deployment was scheduled before they arrived there. They move 80,000 feet to a level of 50 feet in less than a second. If one of these craft happen to become visible to a large crowd or a city, they would not look good to have dismissed them. The Government has a real concern over them.
Quote from: Ed Vette on July 22, 2021, 10:40:38 AM
There is just too many of them recently and they would lose credibility to deny them especially since many of the sightings have come from the Military. There have been comments that they have significantly more they haven't shared. They claim they don't know what they are. It's possible these Tic-Tac type craft could be holographic or from another government. Russia has claimed they have weapon technology that can be deployed at many times faster than the speed of sound. It's the lack of any means of propulsion, sound barrier noise or water wake. They have moved to the destination of where a military deployment was scheduled before they arrived there. They move 80,000 feet to a level of 50 feet in less than a second. If one of these craft happen to become visible to a large crowd or a city, they would not look good to have dismissed them. The Government has a real concern over them.
Yeah the natural inclination to the recent response from our own Pentagon that they have no idea what these things are could mean it is from another government. So which government? Russia? Hah!! I don't believe anything the Russians claim. They're a dying petro state and in spite of recent claims to the contrary they are far from America's biggest threat. China? China has historically not done much in the way of R&D opting to go straight to manufacture capitalizing on, among others, American tehcnological innovation. They're close the gap but in spite of Biden's claims to the contrary, they haven't surpassed us. They're more capable of producing because they have many more mid tier technical minds. I can't imagine China has come up with things capable of doing things that our government now admits they don't have any idea what they are when they're so busy stealing our technological secrets.
These are either very well executed hoaxes capable of fooling the eyes of fighter pilots or they're something truly remarkable.
Quote from: jimmyz on July 23, 2021, 04:00:37 AM
Yeah the natural inclination to the recent response from our own Pentagon that they have no idea what these things are could mean it is from another government. So which government? Russia? Hah!! I don't believe anything the Russians claim. They're a dying petro state and in spite of recent claims to the contrary they are far from America's biggest threat. China? China has historically not done much in the way of R&D opting to go straight to manufacture capitalizing on, among others, American tehcnological innovation. They're close the gap but in spite of Biden's claims to the contrary, they haven't surpassed us. They're more capable of producing because they have many more mid tier technical minds. I can't imagine China has come up with things capable of doing things that our government now admits they don't have any idea what they are when they're so busy stealing our technological secrets.
These are either very well executed hoaxes capable of fooling the eyes of fighter pilots or they're something truly remarkable.
I have a feeling that we are going to find out soon. In the next few years or so.
I wonder why it is folks say that it is 'most likely' or 'more likely' to be of earthly origins. Is it based on statistical likelihood? Normalcy bias? Is there actually evidence to suggest it came from earth?
Assuming these things are even real (and I am somewhat skeptical) and not, as some suggest, some sort of visual trickery, isn't it more likely to not have come from earth? As a skeptic myself, I understand why it might be scary to suggest it.
In 2019, if you were to predict a plague would fall on humanity in 2020, you would have gotten a similar, maybe a little milder, reaction.
Quote from: jimmyz on July 23, 2021, 11:46:50 AM
I wonder why it is folks say that it is 'most likely' or 'more likely' to be of earthly origins. Is it based on statistical likelihood? Normalcy bias? Is there actually evidence to suggest it came from earth?
Assuming these things are even real (and I am somewhat skeptical) and not, as some suggest, some sort of visual trickery, isn't it more likely to not have come from earth? As a skeptic myself, I understand why it might be scary to suggest it.
In 2019, if you were to predict a plague would fall on humanity in 2020, you would have gotten a similar, maybe a little milder, reaction.
If they are real amd not fabricated, it