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Thank god the draft is months away. Not that the player is not good, but it would be a horrific mistake to take a tight end with such a high pick.
As of today, I'd take it. As of today, if you ask Ed Vette he'll tell you there's NO WAY it will ever happen. Bob
Quote from: katkavage on November 27, 2023, 01:26:01 PMThank god the draft is months away. Not that the player is not good, but it would be a horrific mistake to take a tight end with such a high pick.
kat: You misread the original post. He's not a TE, he's a QB. -OR- I misread the post with my bad eyesight. lol
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 27, 2023, 01:28:25 PMkat: You misread the original post. He's not a TE, he's a QB. -OR- I misread the post with my bad eyesight. lol
Or... he's talking about Washington at #5.
As of this moment I don't think Daniels lasts to 6. I really don't. I think 3 QBs are going in the top 5 and for me he's QB3. I think the Cardinals absolutely could take a QB and if they don't the Bears trade their 2nd pick to somebody who does. I would be thrilled with Daniels in this draft, but the Giants might have to trade up to the Bears' 2nd pick in order to get him thanks to this useless winning streak.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 27, 2023, 03:34:12 PMAs of this moment I don't think Daniels lasts to 6. I really don't. I think 3 QBs are going in the top 5 and for me he's QB3. I think the Cardinals absolutely could take a QB and if they don't the Bears trade their 2nd pick to somebody who does. I would be thrilled with Daniels in this draft, but the Giants might have to trade up to the Bears' 2nd pick in order to get him thanks to this useless winning streak.
You could be right.
I think we're so bad though that we're likely not winning another game. We have needed absurd numbers of terrible turnovers for the last two games to barely go our way, and I just don't think that continues.
The one exception may be the week 18 game. Unfortunately, with the Lions losing and the Eagles coming from behind to win this last game, the odds of that week 18 game being 100% meaningless to the Eagles are rising substantially. And rest assured: if that game means nothing to them, they'll have joke players in that game. Whereas we will go all-out to try to win it, and will. And everyone will pat themselves on the back when it happens, as if it was a meaningful game against legitimate NFL competition. The Eagles and their fans will laugh at us for celebrating that win.
Morning news in the NY Post said that Harrison is thinking about not entering the draft and staying another year in school. I suspect he is watching to see what teams might end up with him...which is always a problem when you're at the top of the draft board along with the worst teams in the league. Probably wants to make sure the team has a QB that can get him the ball on a regular basis
Quote from: T200 on November 27, 2023, 03:22:22 PMOr... he's talking about Washington at #5.
Old eyes
Quote from: katkavage on November 27, 2023, 01:26:01 PMThank god the draft is months away. Not that the player is not good, but it would be a horrific mistake to take a tight end with such a high pick.
for the commanders?
Anything can happen but the Cardinals front office has already let it be known that they still believe in Murray. Combine that with his radioactive contract and it's unlikely that they would take a quarterback in the top 4.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 27, 2023, 04:13:18 PMMorning news in the NY Post said that Harrison is thinking about not entering the draft and staying another year in school. I suspect he is watching to see what teams might end up with him...which is always a problem when you're at the top of the draft board along with the worst teams in the league. Probably wants to make sure the team has a QB that can get him the ball on a regular basis
We may see more of the possibility players staying because they can earn NIL money. The urgency for some may not be there. Harrison is a bit of an outlier because of his Dad's knowledge of the league.
Quote from: files58 on November 27, 2023, 05:14:36 PMWe may see more of the possibility players staying because they can earn NIL money. The urgency for some may not be there. Harrison is a bit of an outlier because of his Dad's knowledge of the league.
Very risky to hold out a year and probably just posturing now. NIL money aside, each year delayed means a longer wait for the big NFL bucks. I think if the Bears keep the number one pick, Harrison will be their pick.
Quote from: files58 on November 27, 2023, 05:14:36 PMWe may see more of the possibility players staying because they can earn NIL money. The urgency for some may not be there. Harrison is a bit of an outlier because of his Dad's knowledge of the league.
I think the NIL money is over blown. He's a lock to be a top 3 pick. The annual money for his rookie deal will far exceed what he makes from NIL and the NFL has its own version of NIL in the form of endorsement deals. Those deals often exceed the value of their contract if they're a top rookie. Even if he stayed another year he gonna be a top two or three pick meaning he's going to a crappy team. All he has by returning is downside. Less money and the chance of suffering a career altering injury.
Ole Miss is paying Quinshon Judkins 1.2 million a year. If hes making that imagine what some qbs and Harrison Jr etc are making.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 27, 2023, 06:10:27 PMOle Miss is paying Quinshon Judkins 1.2 million a year. If hes making that imagine what some qbs and Harrison Jr etc are making.
Not as much as NFL potentially could pay him.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 27, 2023, 06:10:27 PMOle Miss is paying Quinshon Judkins 1.2 million a year. If hes making that imagine what some qbs and Harrison Jr etc are making.
CJ Stroud is making $6.5 million in salary and bonuses and millions more in endorsement deals. There is no college football player who's annual NIL deal comes anywhere near that.
Are we convinced Washington isn't taking a QB? Sam Howell can throw for yards but he's pretty abysmal as a whole.
Quote from: GeauxJints on November 27, 2023, 07:30:16 PMAre we convinced Washington isn't taking a QB? Sam Howell can throw for yards but he's pretty abysmal as a whole.
I am in no way convinced of that.
Quote from: GeauxJints on November 27, 2023, 07:30:16 PMAre we convinced Washington isn't taking a QB? Sam Howell can throw for yards but he's pretty abysmal as a whole.
New owner, new coach, new quarterback.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 27, 2023, 03:34:12 PMAs of this moment I don't think Daniels lasts to 6. I really don't. I think 3 QBs are going in the top 5 and for me he's QB3. I think the Cardinals absolutely could take a QB and if they don't the Bears trade their 2nd pick to somebody who does. I would be thrilled with Daniels in this draft, but the Giants might have to trade up to the Bears' 2nd pick in order to get him thanks to this useless winning streak.
I tend to agree with you. Also, like others said Washington could be in the draft for a QB too. If Daniels is the pick I would be happy as hell...if hes gone when we pick, I like J.J. McCarthy or Bo Nix. Was a huge fan of Jones, but IMO its time to move on.
Why doesn't anyone talk about Penix?? Has a great arm. If we do fall a bit that might be ok since maybe we can snag Penix or McCarthy with our second pick, even if it means trading back up. Could get a great piece on either line with the first pick then.
I don't want any part of Williams, never take a quarterback from USC. Daniels is exciting but heard he's in an oversimplified offense?? Idk. I still think we end up picking somewhere decent looking ahead at our schedule. Honestly the teams ahead of us are worse than us and should be drafting there anyway.
Quote from: StompYouOT on November 27, 2023, 08:59:48 PMWhy doesn't anyone talk about Penix?? Has a great arm. If we do fall a bit that might be ok since maybe we can snag Penix or McCarthy with our second pick, even if it means trading back up. Could get a great piece on either line with the first pick then.
I don't want any part of Williams, never take a quarterback from USC. Daniels is exciting but heard he's in an oversimplified offense?? Idk. I still think we end up picking somewhere decent looking ahead at our schedule. Honestly the teams ahead of us are worse than us and should be drafting there anyway.
Two torn ACL's make him a significant contributor jury risk.
Yeah I struggle with the two ACLs pre age 23 with Penix too. I do think he has some nice ability but I can't see using a top 10 pick on him given that risk.
I mean we can't keep guys with no injury histories healthy, so I probably wouldn't want to take a case like his on with a very high pick. Schoen praised Ronnie Barnes today and kind of shrugged his shoulders about the injuries (said since they're not all the same injury it's hard to analyze what to do), so I'm not expecting much to change in future seasons on this front.
Methinks it's likely we trade up to get our guy :yes:
Quote from: Jaime on November 28, 2023, 02:34:22 AMMethinks it's likely we trade up to get our guy :yes:
From my perspective it's too early to really have a strong view on that, Jaime. I need to see where we're picking, for starters. We also need to see who the teams are in the top spots. If both happen to desire one of those top two QBs, they're not trading down.
It was mentioned here by one poster yesterday that he thinks we could win "at least" two more games. I don't personally agree with that at all, given how bad we have looked, even in wins, but if that were to happen, I think trading up to the top two will be close to impossible and basically not feasible for us. Could we trade from 10 to say 5 or 6, and try to get someone like Daniels? I guess that's possible. But I think if you're hoping to get Maye or Williams, we need to be picking in the top 5 or 6 for that to even be a possibility, and then even if we are, we need one of the top two teams to want to move down.
A lot of huge ifs. Hence, to me at least, predictions like that feel like pure conjecture at this point in time.
Quote from: StompYouOT on November 27, 2023, 08:59:48 PMWhy doesn't anyone talk about Penix?? Has a great arm. If we do fall a bit that might be ok since maybe we can snag Penix or McCarthy with our second pick, even if it means trading back up. Could get a great piece on either line with the first pick then.
I don't want any part of Williams, never take a quarterback from USC. Daniels is exciting but heard he's in an oversimplified offense?? Idk. I still think we end up picking somewhere decent looking ahead at our schedule. Honestly the teams ahead of us are worse than us and should be drafting there anyway.
He's also a lefty, and currently his blindside tackle is Evan Neal. Basically need two picks compared to a righty QB
Quote from: StompYouOT on November 27, 2023, 08:59:48 PMWhy doesn't anyone talk about Penix?? Has a great arm. If we do fall a bit that might be ok since maybe we can snag Penix or McCarthy with our second pick, even if it means trading back up. Could get a great piece on either line with the first pick then.
I don't want any part of Williams, never take a quarterback from USC. Daniels is exciting but heard he's in an oversimplified offense?? Idk. I still think we end up picking somewhere decent looking ahead at our schedule. Honestly the teams ahead of us are worse than us and should be drafting there anyway.
Age has a small part, but two acl injuries and he hurt his throwing shoulder. If it wasn't for the injuries, he could be the #1 QB in the draft
If we can I'd draft this Daniels kid, let him sit a year and watch and learn
Trade Jones at a loss
Start Devito
Then let Devito and Daniels fight it out
Phil Simms had to fight for his job, as Parcells benched him
Sometimes a good benching builds character
Daniels will be on a rookie contract and Devito makes 500K
We can afford to trade Jones or cut him
Quote from: brownelvis54 on November 27, 2023, 08:12:17 PMI tend to agree with you. Also, like others said Washington could be in the draft for a QB too. If Daniels is the pick I would be happy as hell...if hes gone when we pick, I like J.J. McCarthy or Bo Nix. Was a huge fan of Jones, but IMO its time to move on.
Also a fan of Jones, I think he has the arm and tools to be at least GOOD
but 2 things happened... Torn ACL .... his biggest strength was his legs.... you take that from him and hes forced to stay in the pocket..... which leads to my biggest gripes.... hes obviously shellshocked from the constant hits...... As well as his biggest weakness to me which is obvious and I cant defend anymore which his refusal to throw the ball down the field..... Devito to this point seems nowhere near as talented as Jones is when Jones is having a good game.... But Tommy (Danny) Devito gets the ball down field and he is getting killed just like Jones was...
Jones mentally is borderline done....idk if hes scared to turn it over but the dinks and dunks started to become hard to defend especially now.... and if you ever notice his feet ..he does those short fast choppy steps in the pocket ... hes shellshocked and its obvious
If hes back next year I wont be mad and I'll root for him like I always have been.... but hes got to look down field
But I also dont know if we should draft any of the QB's not Name Caleb or Maye... but im no expert thats just me
Quote from: killarich on November 29, 2023, 06:12:49 AMAlso a fan of Jones, I think he has the arm and tools to be at least GOOD
but 2 things happened... Torn ACL .... his biggest strength was his legs.... you take that from him and hes forced to stay in the pocket..... which leads to my biggest gripes.... hes obviously shellshocked from the constant hits...... As well as his biggest weakness to me which is obvious and I cant defend anymore which his refusal to throw the ball down the field..... Devito to this point seems nowhere near as talented as Jones is when Jones is having a good game.... But Tommy (Danny) Devito gets the ball down field and he is getting killed just like Jones was...
Jones mentally is borderline done....idk if hes scared to turn it over but the dinks and dunks started to become hard to defend especially now.... and if you ever notice his feet ..he does those short fast choppy steps in the pocket ... hes shellshocked and its obvious
If hes back next year I wont be mad and I'll root for him like I always have been.... but hes got to look down field
But I also dont know if we should draft any of the QB's not Name Caleb or Maye... but im no expert thats just me
Jones first year Pat Shurmur let him rip with a one read offense and he made great throws downfield. The problem was that he lacked pocket awareness and his gun slinger mentality led to some interceptions. He had a lot of turnovers but the talent was clearly there and he didn't even run much but he did have two TDs with his legs. His Y/C was high and his Y/A was good. He missed a few games and if healthy he could have been close to 4000 passing yards.
In comes JG who tries to teach him to read the field with a dumbed down Offense. He struggled behind a bad Oline and a poor Receiver Corp, and JG took the blame. In his second year in the system his competition percentage improved and was on track for 3800 yards but he got hurt again and missed six games.
In comes Daboll whose priority was to cut down on the turnovers with ball security, a Run based Offense and a short game. He did well but he was programmed not to take chances the past three years.
Then we have year four with the same shitty Oline, fear of taking chances and turnovers and the league figures out Kafka, Daboll and Jones. They make him run more to extend drives and he gets hurt again and again.
This is how you break a QB. Shurmur knew his limitations and if he had stayed in that system and worked through his difficulties, he may have become a good System QB. I don't know if DJ can be fixed. Perhaps in the right situation. The problem is that Schoen would have to be a gambler to let him play through his contract.
Quote from: files58 on November 27, 2023, 05:14:36 PMWe may see more of the possibility players staying because they can earn NIL money. The urgency for some may not be there. Harrison is a bit of an outlier because of his Dad's knowledge of the league.
That and already having a lot more money than the vast majority of potential draftees.