WHO are the free agents available
We are back in contention for a QB in the draft
But we desperately need a WR1 and sadly another linemen
I'm tired of the 2nd-3rd round receiver ... we have a bunch of decent receivers who would be better if we had a legit wr1 ...
I think the strategy has to be either draft a qb and hope it's for real or maybe draft Harrison if we can
If we get Harrison we have to roll with DJ for another season
If we draft QB I see no point in keeping DJ ... if anybody would bite at DJ I'd say take whatever you can get for him .... 3rd round , 4th round picks whatever and just let the rookie take over... I find bridge qb's to be useless unless you actually plan on them playing the entire season
Now if we go QB .... what receivers are available in free agency who will instantly be wr1 ? That becomes need #1 via free agency
Who is available at o-line via free agency ?
Are we giving Neal another year at Tackle ?... let's not make the Flowers mistake and continue to force him to play Tackle... if not play Neal at guard and see if it sticks
Resigning Simmons is a must , and McKinney if the price is right
Barkley I love the dude... but he was completely idiotic not taking the 12 mil a season... the guy seems to be a great human being... but my god when it comes to financials with bitcoin and creating an off-season drama for no reason...he is not the brightest in that department. Barkley is worth 6-7 mil a season at this point .... He did it to himself
2nd and 3rd round have to be some sort of EDGE , DT and Oline combo
Idk how we are going to do it ... it whether we draft a qb or not ..wr1 and Oline have to be addressed
I think Wr becomes less of a need with a different signal caller.
Sign 2 plug and play olinemen in FA, along with a safety, and 2 cheaper Rbs.
Draft a QB with the 1st, an Edge, and a Dlineman with your first 3 picks if possible, then BPA.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 25, 2023, 08:30:44 PMI think Wr becomes less of a need with a different signal caller.
Sign 2 plug and play olinemen in FA, along with a safety, and 2 cheaper Rbs.
Draft a QB with the 1st, an Edge, and a Dlineman with your first 3 picks if possible, then BPA.
I'm fine with this ..but I still think WR1 is a must
We don't have a consistent threat
One week it's Hyatt, one eeek Robinson then one week Slayton
We need someone is always a threat to consistently make the mentioned 3 a consistent secondary threat also
If we're not taking a QB (either bc we can't get one or bc we don't like one enough to draft him), WR is a possibility. We likely won't get Harrison but Nabers should be there.
BTW on a separate note: we are not under any circumstances going to be able to move Jones. No team, even the dumbest teams in the league, will take him off our hands with that contract of his. Teams can see that you can get better results with guys like Minshew and Mayfield at a fraction of the price. Nobody is taking Jones and his $47mmm 2024 cap hit off our hands. He's 100% back next year, whether they want him to be or not.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 25, 2023, 08:37:41 PMIf we're not taking a QB (either bc we can't get one or bc we don't like one enough to draft him), WR is a possibility. We likely won't get Harrison but Nabers should be there.
BTW on a separate note: we are not under any circumstances going to be able to move Jones. No team, even the dumbest teams in the league, will take him off our hands with that contract of his. Teams can see that you can get better results with guys like Minshew and Mayfield at a fraction of the price. Nobody is taking Jones and his $47mmm 2024 cap hit off our hands. He's 100% back next year, whether they want him to be or not.
Jones contract is set in a way that if he's let go after next season it isn't that terrible of a hit on the cap
Does that carry over to the team if he were to get traded ?
That may be the only saving grace
Well, this game shows the defense needs players who don't get blown off the line and who can tackle.
On offense, fix the damn line, once and for all, both players and coaches. I agree a WR1 would go a long way and even a stud TE in the George Kittle class would be a tremendous help to the line.
Upgrade all positions with speed where you can. Special teams needs all the help it can get. I, personally, am very much open to improving the punter as I'm still not 100% sold on Gillen and it has nothing to do with today and his kicking through an injury.
Lots of passion on drafting a QB here. If the Giants didn't have so many other needs, I might be open to it. That said, if a bona-fide game changer is available, that represents the continuation of the line of legends from Benny Friedman to Eli Manning, I am open to considering it.
Peace!
I want a team that before and after the game are as kind/nice as Mother Theresa, but during the game they are like the Mongol horde rampaging through the steppe. I want an owner who is as ruthless as Bobby Axelrod was in Billions when it comes to winning, acquiring quality players, and will stand in front of a microphone defending his team that was victimized by lousy officiating. We need a new QB who is a fearless gunslinger.
I'm still numb by the Neal swing and miss. It reinforces the fact that the draft is a real crap shoot. Especially those high round picks because of the damage they cause if you miss.
I'm ok with DJ and the GM, HC, DC and OC. I'll let those guys decide on the rest of the coaches.
The question is, did we have areas of improvement over last year? If not, why not.
Yesterday's game with the Eagles showed two QB's who can take the club to a solid, mid-level place next year. Coaching for Mr. Thomas DeVito and judicious use of Mr. Tyrod Tailor will get that particular dog walked.
Mr. Danial Jones should be sold off to the highest bidder ASAP. That will put some bread in the salary jar.
Drafting should center on a couple of receivers who can take some of the pressure off Mr. Saquon Barkley. Even his superb durability has a limit.
Finally, see if there's any really weak spot in the defensive squad to fix.
Go flag-free, Big Blue!
Quote from: killarich on December 25, 2023, 08:33:14 PMI'm fine with this ..but I still think WR1 is a must
We don't have a consistent threat
One week it's Hyatt, one eeek Robinson then one week Slayton
We need someone is always a threat to consistently make the mentioned 3 a consistent secondary threat also
robinson is so 1 dimensional. underneath slot guy. and thats fine. you need that guy. but you saw yesterday what a big body posession guy can do. robinson is not a downfield threat at all.
Quote from: Torus34 on December 26, 2023, 07:18:23 AMMr. Danial Jones should be sold off to the highest bidder ASAP. That will put some bread in the salary jar.
Which of the other 31 NFL teams do you honestly believe will consider with a straight face trading for a middling at best QB who played utterly horribly in his most recent year, is coming off an ACL injury as well as his second serious neck injury, has had multiple other serious injuries, and has a $47mm cap hit in 2024 with a total of $69.3mm in dead cap remaining on his $40mm a year contract?
Quote from: Torus34 on December 26, 2023, 07:18:23 AMYesterday's game with the Eagles showed two QB's who can take the club to a solid, mid-level place next year. Coaching for Mr. Thomas DeVito and judicious use of Mr. Tyrod Tailor will get that particular dog walked.
Mr. Danial Jones should be sold off to the highest bidder ASAP. That will put some bread in the salary jar.
Drafting should center on a couple of receivers who can take some of the pressure off Mr. Saquon Barkley. Even his superb durability has a limit.
Finally, see if there's any really weak spot in the defensive squad to fix.
Go flag-free, Big Blue!
who is giving up anything for jones coming off an acl and a brutal performance for the few games he did play? its unrealistic. hes going to be qb1 next year with a very short leash.
Quote from: kartanoman on December 25, 2023, 08:57:15 PMWell, this game shows the defense needs players who don't get blown off the line and who can tackle.
On offense, fix the damn line, once and for all, both players and coaches. I agree a WR1 would go a long way and even a stud TE in the George Kittle class would be a tremendous help to the line.
Upgrade all positions with speed where you can. Special teams needs all the help it can get. I, personally, am very much open to improving the punter as I'm still not 100% sold on Gillen and it has nothing to do with today and his kicking through an injury.
Lots of passion on drafting a QB here. If the Giants didn't have so many other needs, I might be open to it. That said, if a bona-fide game changer is available, that represents the continuation of the line of legends from Benny Friedman to Eli Manning, I am open to considering it.
Peace!
I believe bad tackling was the single biggest culprit in last night's loss.
Quote from: TONKA56 on December 26, 2023, 08:20:36 AMI believe bad tackling was the single biggest culprit in last night's loss.
McFadden had a few missed tackles
But I will give him a pass as he has been over performing all season
Crazy ... linebackers was our biggest question mark coming into the season
But reality is every other position has severely underperformed
1. A great uptick in strength training. Consult with Johnny Parker.
2. A long rehab vacation for Daniel Jones. Our medical staff will not clear you for contact for the 2024 season. Bit the bullet, eat the cap mistake we have created. This is the same QB that played at Duke. No matter how much you polish mud, it ain't gonna shine.
3. A HC and OC who are on the same aggressive page. And are not afraid to design pass protection that utilizes our downfield speed at least 10 times per game. Channel Hank Stram on how to use your offensive talent.
4. Trade out of the first round. We need 25 - 30 new better players, all positions except Placekicker. Save drafting a QB for the new HC after Daboll gets his walking papers in Week 10 of 2024.
It's gonna take a while to fix this mess, delayed probably next season since we don't want to cut loose our present HC. We seem to enjoy the thorn stuck in our arm and are in no hurry to remove it.
We really missed the boat on Dan Campbell, a drafted ex Giant who paid his dues all along the coaching staffs and seems to demand respect and performance.
If anyone could turn Marvin Harrison Jr into a non-factor it would be Daniel Jones. That's the last QB-WR pairing I ever want to see on the Giants.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 26, 2023, 09:21:00 AMIf anyone could turn Marvin Harrison Jr into a non-factor it would be Daniel Jones. That's the last QB-WR pairing I ever want to see on the Giants.
Are you saying Harrison cant get open ?
Jones biggest weakness is locking onto 1-2 players
His rookie season he was heaving the ball....because we had receivers who were able to get open
Due to the injury I believe we should still move on at QB .... but im not so sure Jones will just destroy a WR
Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 09:55:24 AMAre you saying Harrison cant get open ?
Baffling that you made that leap smh.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 26, 2023, 09:56:49 AMBaffling that you made that leap smh.
You literally stated that he would be a non-factor.... I just disagree and added a question
This doesnt mean I dont think we should move on from Jones .... I just dont think Harrison becomes a Non-Factor
Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 09:58:39 AMYou literally stated that he would be a non-factor.... I just disagree and added a question
This doesnt mean I dont think we should move on from Jones .... I just dont think Harrison becomes a Non-Factor
Yes, I think Jones is bad enough that drafting Harrison wouldn't be worth it if Jones is the QB. No, I don't think Harrison would produce to his potential with Jones under center.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 26, 2023, 10:01:22 AMYes, I think Jones is bad enough that drafting Harrison wouldn't be worth it if Jones is the QB. No, I don't think Harrison would produce to his potential with Jones under center.
OK ..but we still need to build pieces .... If we miss out on QB .... do we just ignore the rest of the offense simply because Jones is the QB ? I dont understand this logic.... If we could get Tyrek Hill for a draft pick do we simply say no because Jones is the QB ?
Im talking about building the team... if we dont get a QB Jones is the QB for just one more season.... you dont ignore needs because of one player
Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 09:58:39 AMYou literally stated that he would be a non-factor.... I just disagree and added a question
This doesnt mean I dont think we should move on from Jones .... I just dont think Harrison becomes a Non-Factor
You gotta read the entire statement...
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 26, 2023, 09:21:00 AMIf anyone could turn Marvin Harrison Jr into a non-factor it would be Daniel Jones. That's the last QB-WR pairing I ever want to see on the Giants.
Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 10:04:20 AMOK ..but we still need to build pieces .... If we miss out on QB .... do we just ignore the rest of the offense simply because Jones is the QB ? I dont understand this logic.... If we could get Tyrek Hill for a draft pick do we simply say no because Jones is the QB ?
Im talking about building the team... if we dont get a QB Jones is the QB for just one more season.... you dont ignore needs because of one player
How exactly does Tyreek Hill or MHJ help this offense without the ball getting thrown to him?
Quote from: T200 on December 26, 2023, 10:05:39 AMHow exactly does Tyreek Hill or MHJ help this offense without the ball getting thrown to him?
Lol I think we are being a little dramatic here...
Jones has multiple factors why the ball isnt thrown.... Both his fault and the O-lines fault
As mentioned his biggest problem is he locks on to one target far too long
If MHJ or Hill is on this team ...... I can almost bet on my life that Jones will be looking that way 90% of the time
Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 10:04:20 AMOK ..but we still need to build pieces .... If we miss out on QB .... do we just ignore the rest of the offense simply because Jones is the QB ? I dont understand this logic.... If we could get Tyrek Hill for a draft pick do we simply say no because Jones is the QB ?
Im talking about building the team... if we dont get a QB Jones is the QB for just one more season.... you dont ignore needs because of one player
If they don't get a QB, I don't see how they're in range for Harrison. But assuming they somehow couldn't get a QB but do end up with Harrison, I think he becomes our version of Garrett Wilson, a tremendous talent who is being held back by virtue of his QBs.
I wrote about my thoughts on the rebuild and collecting pieces in another thread. Rather than rehash my thoughts I'll just copy here what I wrote there because I think continuing the Daniel Jones experiment will only keep the team running in place on the hamster wheel.
--
This team seems to be 3 years away every year and it's been that way for over a decade. Things won't change until they find a legitimate QB.
It's ironic that Geno Smith may have been that guy 6 years ago if they had given him a shot. But Gettleman believed Eli just needed another weapon and he bizarrely believed Kyle Lauletta could be the heir apparent. Not that Geno was a great prize, but maybe he would've helped this team get back to respectability.
Now, unless they luck into an elite QB through the draft, they'll continue their decade long game of whack-a-mole with the roster. Use 2 top-10 picks and a 2nd round pick on the OL, and the OL is worse than ever. Invest a top-10 pick on a pass rusher and sign Dex to a huge contract, but the defensive front is only average on a good day. Invest a first round pick on a dynamic WR, then trade him for an aging but formerly elite TE, and still no legitimate #1 target. Grant McAdoo the keys to the kingdom, 2 years later it's Shurmur, 2 years later it's Judge, 2 years later it's Daboll, 2 years later???
This is like being on a hamster wheel. Until they solve the QB position they will continue running in place without getting anywhere.
Quote from: killarich on December 26, 2023, 10:08:36 AMLol I think we are being a little dramatic here...
Jones has multiple factors why the ball isnt thrown.... Both his fault and the O-lines fault
As mentioned his biggest problem is he locks on to one target far too long
If MHJ or Hill is on this team ...... I can almost bet on my life that Jones will be looking that way 90% of the time
No drama here. Just facts. The numbers don't lie. There was a thread a few weeks ago that showed the YPA for each of the three QBs that started this year. Jones was last. Why? Because he doesn't look downfield. He's looking to see where the pressure is coming from.
The ONLY way Jones will be a successful QB for the Giants is to have better protection. Adding an all-world WR does not make Jones a better QB.
If they don't get a qb in the draft then they need to sign Mayfield, or resign Taylor because I would start either one of them before letting Jones on the field again.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 26, 2023, 11:50:32 AMIf they don't get a qb in the draft then they need to sign Mayfield, or resign Taylor because I would start either one of them before letting Jones on the field again.
I like Taylor but he can't stay healthy.
For me, I'd roll with whichever rookie they draft and DeVito until Jones is healthy. Unfortunately, his salary next year will dictate that he plays with one exception: the rookie or DeVito actually start winning games. The longer the Giants win without Jones, the longer they will wait to put him in.
Quote from: T200 on December 26, 2023, 11:55:35 AMI like Taylor but he can't stay healthy.
For me, I'd roll with whichever rookie they draft and DeVito until Jones is healthy. Unfortunately, his salary next year will dictate that he plays with one exception: the rookie or DeVito actually start winning games. The longer the Giants win without Jones, the longer they will wait to put him in.
I hope they draft someone but in the event they don't there are a ton of backup level Qbs that can come in and easily outproduce anyone that we have. When guys like O'Connell, Dobbs, Browning, and the elderly Flacco out produce our 40 million dollar Qb it becomes quite alarming.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 26, 2023, 12:41:34 PMI hope they draft someone but in the event they don't there are a ton of backup level Qbs that can come in and easily outproduce anyone that we have. When guys like O'Connell, Dobbs, Browning, and the elderly Flacco out produce our 40 million dollar Qb it becomes quite alarming.
The 40-million-dollar-QB isn't going away until 2025. I don't want to waste money/time/chemistry on a stop-gap QB who will not potentially become the franchise QB. If they don't get a QB in this draft, the potential exists for the next coach after Daboll to be saddled with yet another QB he (the new HC) did not pick. I'm ready to get off that ride.
Most important will Mara look at the Jones example and finally realize loyalty is nice, but it doesn't win football games, AND to stop meddling. He won't though because to the Maras the Giants are the family really cute Golden Doodle. There are the Tischs though. Maybe history will repeat, and there will be another intervention with similar results. Warm up the piper cub.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 26, 2023, 07:30:46 AMWhich of the other 31 NFL teams do you honestly believe will consider with a straight face trading for a middling at best QB who played utterly horribly in his most recent year, is coming off an ACL injury as well as his second serious neck injury, has had multiple other serious injuries, and has a $47mm cap hit in 2024 with a total of $69.3mm in dead cap remaining on his $40mm a year contract?
Hi, DaveBrown74.
I don't think that the New Jersey Giants would realize any large amount of cash from his sale, but any's better than just paying him for the rest of his contract.
Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on December 26, 2023, 07:31:03 AMwho is giving up anything for jones coming off an acl and a brutal performance for the few games he did play? its unrealistic. hes going to be qb1 next year with a very short leash.
Hi!
See my answer to DaveBrown74, above.
Regards, stay safe 'n well.
Go flag-free, Big Blue!
Quote from: Torus34 on December 27, 2023, 06:52:40 AMHi, DaveBrown74.
I don't think that the New Jersey Giants would realize any large amount of cash from his sale, but any's better than just paying him for the rest of his contract.
Regards, stay safe 'n well.
I personally just don't believe anyone will take him. Moreover, I don't think the Giants will try to trade him. Maybe if someone came knocking on the door begging for him and offering a lot they'd do it, but I think there is a 0.0% chance that that happens. And I don't think they will shop him around.
If they were to simply cut Jones after this season, they'd actually save some money on the cap (I think about $12mm), but they'd have like $70mm in dead cap. As above, I think there is a 0.0% chance they do that.
I think Jones will be part of this team next year no matter what. I guess you could make the case that they could try to trade him while eating a large chunk of the contract, but I personally don't see that happening. First off they may not draft a QB this year. Secondly, even if they do, I think the team understands that there are major talent gaps on this team, and they'll want to preserve the option of keeping the rookie QB on ice for some or even all of 2024. That makes the case for keeping an experienced veteran like Jones around, especially given we're shackled to him in 2024 by virtue of the albatross cap hit.
I think when they signed Jones last spring, they knew they were committing to at least two season with him no matter what. That's the way the contract was written. And if they draft a rookie, even a top rookie, I suspect they'll be reluctant to rush him in on week one, so it makes sense to have a veteran around. I think the brief, stagecoach/fairy godmother fantasy of Tommy D being the week one starter next year has turned back into a pumpkin, and I doubt they bring Taylor back either just given his lack of durability. So not only is Jones basically impossible to move, but he might actually be needed as a transitional QB until the rookie is ready. And if we don't draft a QB, then there is definitely no point in getting rid of him unless someone is actually going to take that $47mm cap hit, which there is just zero chance of. Also Jones may not be ready for week one. In fact that is probably more likely than not.
Quote from: Torus34 on December 27, 2023, 06:52:40 AMHi, DaveBrown74.
I don't think that the New Jersey Giants would realize any large amount of cash from his sale, but any's better than just paying him for the rest of his contract.
Regards, stay safe 'n well.
What!? Are you under the impression that teams 'sell' players under contract? A team can trade for DJ, but they would assume responsibility for the contract, including all guarantee monies. The Giants could negotiate to cover a portion of the contract; however, I doubt they will do so as DJ is not negatively impacting the teams culture. This gets us back to the point; NO team is going to assume responsibility for DJ's contract, even if the Giants choose to cover a portion of the aggregate. Plus, why would any team trade for a player that will be available next year, for a fraction of the price?