Seems Ron Rivera wants to stay in the game and said he's willing to take a step down, even work as a Defensive Coordinator.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10105578-ron-rivera-wants-to-keep-coaching-in-nfl-after-commanders-firing-open-to-dc-role.
How would he look in Blie and would that be too much of a big-time guy under Daboll?
I like Rivera, but not sure if he's too "Old School". Not sure what Daboll and company are looking for.
Rivera would be an "exceeds expectations" hire.
Have a very high opinion of him.
Should have the job.
Will never have the job.
Daboll needs to insulate himself.
Job will be filled from within, probably Henderson.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 17, 2024, 09:04:35 PMRivera would be an "exceeds expectations" hire.
Have a very high opinion of him.
How did he do in past DC roles?
Not challenging your view. Just asking. I honestly don't remember. It's been a while since he was a DC.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 17, 2024, 09:28:52 PMHow did he do in past DC roles?
Not challenging your view. Just asking. I honestly don't remember. It's been a while since he was a DC.
In Chicago in terms of points owr game:
2004 middle of the pack
2005 1st in NFL
2006 3rd in NFL
SD not as good but improvement
2008 16th
2009 11th
2010 10th
One note on SD, in 2007 they were a top 5 defense with Rivera as LBs coach.
Not sure why the big dip from 2007 to 2008.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 17, 2024, 09:39:48 PMIn Chicago in terms of points owr game:
2004 middle of the pack
2005 1st in NFL
2006 3rd in NFL
SD not as good but improvement
2008 16th
2009 11th
2010 10th
One note on SD, in 2007 they were a top 5 defense with Rivera as LBs coach.
Not sure why the big dip from 2007 to 2008.
What kind of defense does he run ?
Ron would be an interesting hire option. Although I have serious doubts, Ron would want to come to work for Daboll. I can't imagine a long-time head coach would want to be screamed at like he is a no-nothing coaching intern.
I had mentioned it last week. I think he'd be a great addition.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 09:06:23 AMRon would be an interesting hire option. Although I have serious doubts, Ron would want to come to work for Daboll. I can't imagine a long-time head coach would want to be screamed at like he is a no-nothing coaching intern.
How sure are we that Daboll is that toxic ?
The dude was Coach of the year last year and everything was going great.
I honestly think its being over played here with the Daboll slander
I liked Wink ... and im not saying Daboll probably isnt a hardass ..but I dont think that means he isnt a good coach
Yes the schedule was weak...but we did make the second round last season ..... with Hodgins as our top WR ... and Jones at QB
Hopefully Daboll would view Rivera with a higher level of respect ... but then again I could be wrong about all this
Quote from: killarich on January 18, 2024, 09:16:40 AMHow sure are we that Daboll is that toxic ?
The dude was Coach of the year last year and everything was going great.
I honestly think its being over played here with the Daboll slander
I liked Wink ... and im not saying Daboll probably isnt a hardass ..but I dont think that means he isnt a good coach
Yes the schedule was weak...but we did make the second round last season ..... with Hodgins as our top WR ... and Jones at QB
Hopefully Daboll would view Rivera with a higher level of respect ... but then again I could be wrong about all this
It's only slander if it's not true. I went into great detail about this in this post (and in this thread)
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?msg=937107
I will point out my biggest takeaway to date: neither side is disputing the claims put out by the other side. So it would seem both side's are giving us the truth, the difference is that the two sides are supplying the facts they feel best support them and put the other side in the worse possible light.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 09:19:35 AMIt's only slander if it's not true. I went into great detail about this in this post (and in this thread)
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?msg=937107
I will point out my biggest takeaway to date: neither side is disputing the claims put out by the other side. So it would seem both side's are giving us the truth, the difference is that the two sides are supplying the facts they feel best support them and put the other side in the worse possible light.
Like I said Im not saying he isnt a hardass.... but like you said the players seem to like him and play hard for him... in the end thats what you want... especially the playing hard part
It seems like both Daboll and Wink both have strong personalities .... I was upset Wink left ......but if he really did start making a little rogue coaching unit hiding from the head of the team (Daboll) then yes Daboll has every right to be mad at that...its HIS coaching staff
The whole thing about Daboll lacking composure , being crazy ...etc... may be slightly true
BUT
If Wink and his secret team were a real thing... what stops them or their connections from making false claims about Daboll when they already undermined him when they were employed under him ???
This is def at a minimum partial slander .... gathering a few articles , connecting the dots and listening to people like Pat Leanord does not give 100% of the story
I think Daboll and Wink both had problems ....its 50/50 and not just Daboll
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 09:19:35 AMIt's only slander if it's not true. I went into great detail about this in this post (and in this thread)
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?msg=937107
I will point out my biggest takeaway to date: neither side is disputing the claims put out by the other side. So it would seem both side's are giving us the truth, the difference is that the two sides are supplying the facts they feel best support them and put the other side in the worse possible light.
We just don't know how they fit together.
I keep thinking of that example about Daboll saying on the headset to Wink "you are going to lose this game like you lost the Jets game". As someone who has been managing people for 25 years, that sounds awful, really awful. But we had an entire thread about context here and we don't know that part of it. to my knowledge we have no idea what was said directly prior to that comment.
Just as an example here: what if Prior to Daboll making that comment, Wink's comment on the radio was something to the effect of : "Is your offense going to lose this game for us again? Or are they going to score at all?"
It's still not a good response but its very different than just out of the blue "you lost the Jets game". There are certainly other ways to handle that kind of stuff as a manager.
I think we have to realize that the NFL coaching jobs are not regular workplace interactions and things are said back and forth that wouldn't be acceptable in many work situations. Again, that doesn't make what Daboll said right.
I guess it's a long way of saying that I agree with your general assessment and that we just really don't know the extent of the dysfunction. I think what's bothered me most of all the stuff coming out is the "staffer" telling an assistant not to come to the Giants. If true, that's bad.
We could certainly use Paul Harvey right about now. #TheRestOfTheStory
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 18, 2024, 09:41:11 AMWe just don't know how they fit together.
I keep thinking of that example about Daboll saying on the headset to Wink "you are going to lose this game like you lost the Jets game". As someone who has been managing people for 25 years, that sounds awful, really awful. But we had an entire thread about context here and we don't know that part of it. to my knowledge we have no idea what was said directly prior to that comment.
Just as an example here: what if Prior to Daboll making that comment, Wink's comment on the radio was something to the effect of : "Is your offense going to lose this game for us again? Or are they going to score at all?"
It's still not a good response but its very different than just out of the blue "you lost the Jets game". There are certainly other ways to handle that kind of stuff as a manager.
I think we have to realize that the NFL coaching jobs are not regular workplace interactions and things are said back and forth that wouldn't be acceptable in many work situations. Again, that doesn't make what Daboll said right.
I guess it's a long way of saying that I agree with your general assessment and that we just really don't know the extent of the dysfunction. I think what's bothered me most of all the stuff coming out is the "staffer" telling an assistant not to come to the Giants. If true, that's bad.
Here's the thing: on game day, the coaching staff needs to work as a well-coordinated machine. NFL playcalling is extremely demanding; in a short period of time, you need to decide the best call to play while factoring in down, distance, and game situations. Plus, you need to consider what your opponent might do and, how predictable you are being, and how you wanted the play calling to go.
So the focus should be on the two play callers, with everything else being conducted with an eye towards supporting the play callers. The only real exception is the head coach, who also needs to consider the game situation and be prepared to make key calls like punt or go for it.
With this in mind, the details of Daboll's finger-pointing are essentially meaningless as there simply is no place in challenging in-game environment to waste time and create a distraction by finger-pointing or the like.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 10:13:34 AMHere's the thing: on game day, the coaching staff needs to work as a well-coordinated machine. NFL playcalling is extremely demanding; in a short period of time, you need to decide the best call to play while factoring in down, distance, and game situations. Plus, you need to consider what your opponent might do and, how predictable you are being, and how you wanted the play calling to go.
So the focus should be on the two play callers, with everything else being conducted with an eye towards supporting the play callers. The only real exception is the head coach, who also needs to consider the game situation and be prepared to make key calls like punt or go for it.
With this in mind, the details of Daboll's finger-pointing are essentially meaningless as there simply is no place in challenging in-game environment to waste time and create a distraction by finger-pointing or the like.
The stories about Daboll have painted a picture of the main. Whether they're conservative, spot-on or excessive, the question in this thread is how would he relate to a well-respected professional, such as Rivera, who is accomplished AND has head coaching experience and can empathize with Daboll's situation? I would think this might be a better fit AS LONG AS Rivera is in it only for the defensive coordinator role and not subversively looking to position himself for the head coaching job should Daboll falter.
I would most definitely bring him in for an interview, at the very least.
Peace!
Much rather have an up and comer than a retread.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 20, 2024, 10:39:59 AMMuch rather have an up and comer than a retread.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I agree with this as far as OCs go, but DC is a different thing IMO. A lot of times "retread" DCs actually do quite well. There are several around the league right now that come to mind.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 20, 2024, 11:09:30 AMI agree with this as far as OCs go, but DC is a different thing IMO. A lot of times "retread" DCs actually do quite well. There are several around the league right now that come to mind.
I respect your position...but guys like Raheem Morris and DeMeco Ryans are examples of what were once up and comers who are now difference makers in the league. I'd love to have an aspiring coaching candidate like this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 20, 2024, 01:19:00 PMI respect your position...but guys like Raheem Morris and DeMeco Ryans are examples of what were once up and comers who are now difference makers in the league. I'd love to have an aspiring coaching candidate like this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Andrew
Who is, as you say, aspiring, this year could be a waste of time next year. It's always the 'hot' guy, as was Kadka and Wink last year, but have one dreadful year and that stock goes way down.
I agree on some retreads, but a guy like Rivera, who cut his teeth on the defensive side of the ball, then became an HC and a successful one at that, will, most likely, still be a good, if not very good, defensive-minded guy.
For me, I don't think his negatives are his defensive schemes, I think just if he would get along as a sort of underling of Daboll.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 20, 2024, 01:19:00 PMI respect your position...but guys like Raheem Morris and DeMeco Ryans are examples of what were once up and comers who are now difference makers in the league. I'd love to have an aspiring coaching candidate like this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
You're right. I guess my point was more that you do have some retreads out there who are good DCs. Jim Schwartz is an example. So is Spags. So is Vic Fangio. I think you tend not to see them as much with OCs. Bill O'Brien types are usually busts.
Of course, I get your point that it would be great to find the next Demeco Ryans. The only thing I'd say to that though is if you do manage to find a young DC who is excellent and he has never been a HC before, you're probably going to lose him in a couple years. With a Schwartz type you don't have to worry about that.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 20, 2024, 01:44:53 PMYou're right. I guess my point was more that you do have some retreads out there who are good DCs. Jim Schwartz is an example. So is Spags. So is Vic Fangio. I think you tend not to see them as much with OCs. Bill O'Brien types are usually busts.
Of course, I get your point that it would be great to find the next Demeco Ryans. The only thing I'd say to that though is if you do manage to find a young DC who is excellent and he has never been a HC before, you're probably going to lose him in a couple years. With a Schwartz type you don't have to worry about that.
All solid points.
I also wouldn't argue against the likes of Spaghetti, Schwartz or Fangio.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: LennG on January 20, 2024, 01:35:15 PMAndrew
Who is, as you say, aspiring, this year could be a waste of time next year. It's always the 'hot' guy, as was Kadka and Wink last year, but have one dreadful year and that stock goes way down.
I agree on some retreads, but a guy like Rivera, who cut his teeth on the defensive side of the ball, then became an HC and a successful one at that, will, most likely, still be a good, if not very good, defensive-minded guy.
For me, I don't think his negatives are his defensive schemes, I think just if he would get along as a sort of underling of Daboll.
I don't think Daboll needs an "underling". I simply don't believe him to be that fragile.
But for anyone in a leadership position, trusting those on your management team is critical. The second you believe you're being undermined, you need to take action.
I will also add that he gave Wink the benefit of the doubt by A) holding an air it out meeting with all coaches and 2) once he got to the leaks he didn't hold Wink responsible for the Wilkins brothers, he fired them himself.
To me, each example was Daboll being a man in the situation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 20, 2024, 01:53:24 PMAll solid points.
I also wouldn't argue against the likes of Spaghetti, Schwartz or Fangio.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Spagheti! =))
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 20, 2024, 02:03:20 PMI don't think Daboll needs an "underling". I simply don't believe him to be that fragile.
But for anyone in a leadership position, trusting those on your management team is critical. The second you believe you're being undermined, you need to take action.
I will also add that he gave Wink the benefit of the doubt by A) holding an air it out meeting with all coaches and 2) once he got to the leaks he didn't hold Wink responsible for the Wilkins brothers, he fired them himself.
To me, each example was Daboll being a man in the situation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I agree , Daboll took a big step back this season ..... but I can't believe he was 100% of the problem in the Wink situation .... Daboll is the head coach point blank ..... Wink tried to go rogue ..... even after that Daboll left it on the table that he could still work for him
Think about that .... Daboll has to know that year 3 he's on the hot seat ..... obvious turmoil going on between the coaches with Daboll and wink and co ...... Daboll risked turmoil in his hot seat year by leaving the decision in Winks hand
Daboll isn't as much as a monster as the media is trying to say
https://x.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1749470724148830444?s=20