Many of you know UKGiants, our resident draft expert (he used to write about the draft for Pat Traina). Here was his first mock draft
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF6AGQaWkAAEeaT?format=jpg&name=large)
https://x.com/ukgiantsfan1/status/1755981752961564757?s=20
Well done. McCarthy at Pick 19 is totally defensible (although I still believe the Giants' most important "need" on offense is a top WR. But there is nothing (IMO) wrong with the outcome suggested by Ceri. There will be one or two free-agent WR's out there this year if the Giants have the money to pay them. Bob
I like his draft, but I don't believe that McCarthy will last anywhere near 19
Good job Ceri. You have been right more often than most of us so I like it a lot and I can live with all those picks. :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2024, 11:25:00 AMI like his draft, but I don't believe that McCarthy will last anywhere near 19
Rich: I also like that draft but don't think it will happen for another reason (although I agree with your post).
At Pick Six it's theoretically "iffy" whether they'll have a shot at a top five WR or QB whom they actually want.
But I believe there are enough players at other positions to almost assume one of the five teams ahead of them will go somewhere other than QB and WR, which IMO significantly increases their odds of having either the QB or the WR they want still available at Pick Six.
Bob
PS. Inevitably, our analyses will be upended by free-agency but as of today they're as good as anyone's guesses.
Don't like it at all! Don't pass up an elite WR, Elite Olineman, or elite pass rusher for a trade down to take an iffy QB. Darius Robinson with their 1st 2nd rd pick? Had to be better options available. I like the Cooper Beebe pick though.
Quote from: Bob In PA on February 09, 2024, 11:38:14 AMRich: I also like that draft but don't think it will happen for another reason (although I agree with your post).
At Pick Six it's theoretically "iffy" whether they'll have a shot at a top five WR or QB whom they actually want.
But I believe there are enough players at other positions to almost assume one of the five teams ahead of them will go somewhere other than QB and WR, which IMO significantly increases their odds of having either the QB or the WR they want still available at Pick Six.
Bob
PS. Inevitably, our analyses will be upended by free-agency but as of today they're as good as anyone's guess.
At this point in time, the draft is worth discussing in terms of prospects that are likely to be available, but that discussion really should be tied to (as you pointed out) free agency as who the team decides to sign is partly determined by what needs the team feels the draft can cover.
McCarthy may go higher than #19. Makes perfect job security sense for Daboll and Schoen with him to develop. So many holes on the team..maybe some like OL can be filled in FA. Like this draft overall. Good job.
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2024, 11:25:00 AMI like his draft, but I don't believe that McCarthy will last anywhere near 19
Couldn't agree more
I like the draft down scenario. I believe strongly that if they can't get a QB at 6 or Marvin Harrison, they should try to draft down and accumulate picks. Not sure McCarthy will last until 19. More likely 5-10 but might even go in the top three as his stock rises and others (Maye) fall.
I like most of the picks. And no offense Ceri, I have great respect for you and your opinions, BUT...I don't think for one second that the Giants have any intentions of going for one of the early QBs. I agree with Phil Simms, Tiki Barber, Eli Manning, and a host of others who know much more than me...and they think DJ is a Giant for the long haul and believe it's the right choice. We already know the team likes, and respects him, and the front office must also since they bent over and signed him. After all that, I just can't come to grips with the Giants going after a QB and going through two or three more years taking losses and getting him up to NFL speed. They know better than any of us that history is filled with "great college QBs" busting once they reach the big show. It's such a crap shoot and they know it
Regardless, because of my adamant belief that we'll never go for one of the highly rated QBs this year, I can't give an honest assessment of your picks. One pick I'm a little leery of is Cooper Beebe who didn't look very good at all at the senior bowl. Jackson Powers-Johnson on the other (previously ranked the same as Beebe) absolutely dominated the best of the best pass rushers and defensive lineman. He's a friggin beast. I was high on Beebe until after the Senior Bowl. Now, I'd rather take Zak Zinter, who has fallen because of his injury...but that's just me...overly opinionated and often wrong :crazy:
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2024, 11:25:00 AMI like his draft, but I don't believe that McCarthy will last anywhere near 19
Yeah, me neither. But it was fun to get him later on AND grab a mega haul of picks. The point of accepting the trade was to see what else I could get, at which positions, on day two.
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 09, 2024, 01:41:29 PMOne pick I'm a little leery of is Cooper Beebe who didn't look very good at all at the senior bowl. Jackson Powers-Johnson on the other (previously ranked the same as Beebe) absolutely dominated the best of the best pass rushers and defensive lineman. He's a friggin beast. I was high on Beebe until after the Senior Bowl. Now, I'd rather take Zak Zinter, who has fallen because of his injury...but that's just me...overly opinionated and often wrong :crazy:
Hate to tell you this but Beebe accepted his invitation to the Senior Bowl but didn't attend... Not sure who you thought you were watching but it wasn't him!
Quote from: UKGiantsFan on February 09, 2024, 03:52:51 PMYeah, me neither. But it was fun to get him later on AND grab a mega haul of picks. The point of accepting the trade was to see what else I could get, at which positions, on day two.
Hate to tell you this but Beebe accepted his invitation to the Senior Bowl but didn't attend... Not sure who you thought you were watching but it wasn't him!
Thanks for the heads up...I went by numbers and thought I had read the number for Beebe. Not surprising, I'm multi-tasking and dealing with a lot of crap while the TV is going in the background. My bad...again :crazy:
Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2024, 11:25:00 AMI like his draft, but I don't believe that McCarthy will last anywhere near 19
I agree. Rumors were the Rams were targeting McCarthy. Also I think we should look at getting a TE too and of course my " Brandon Jacob" of running backs. I wouldnt be mad if we drafted two RBs
It makes sense that Daboll wants to develop his own guy (McCarthy perhaps). Drafting him as the next stalwart qb would allow Mara and the media to ride out the Jones failure and look towards 2025. So..I think if there's a desire early that is looking long term..it's defensible with a swap in round 1.
Curious for all those that say draft a Wr and ride with Jones.
What has anyone seen from Jones to suggest A) he's the guy and B) that he wouldn't waste a #1 Wr C) or that injuries alone almost assure he isn't the future
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 09, 2024, 01:41:29 PMI like most of the picks. And no offense Ceri, I have great respect for you and your opinions, BUT...I don't think for one second that the Giants have any intentions of going for one of the early QBs. I agree with Phil Simms, Tiki Barber, Eli Manning, and a host of others who know much more than me...and they think DJ is a Giant for the long haul and believe it's the right choice. We already know the team likes, and respects him, and the front office must also since they bent over and signed him. After all that, I just can't come to grips with the Giants going after a QB and going through two or three more years taking losses and getting him up to NFL speed. They know better than any of us that history is filled with "great college QBs" busting once they reach the big show. It's such a crap shoot and they know it
Regardless, because of my adamant belief that we'll never go for one of the highly rated QBs this year, I can't give an honest assessment of your picks. One pick I'm a little leery of is Cooper Beebe who didn't look very good at all at the senior bowl. Jackson Powers-Johnson on the other (previously ranked the same as Beebe) absolutely dominated the best of the best pass rushers and defensive lineman. He's a friggin beast. I was high on Beebe until after the Senior Bowl. Now, I'd rather take Zak Zinter, who has fallen because of his injury...but that's just me...overly opinionated and often wrong :crazy:
Ric
No offense buddy, but Tiki, Phil, and Eli are all ex-Giants and will toe t he company line. What do most others think about Jones, that is where we should be listening.
Quote from: LennG on February 09, 2024, 07:48:23 PMRic
No offense buddy, but Tiki, Phil, and Eli are all ex-Giants and will toe t he company line. What do most others think about Jones, that is where we should be listening.
Thanks Lenn, I actually have my own opinion, but thought i'd give it some credibility by name dropping, lol
I think much more highly of DJ than a lot of fans. I won't make excuses for some of ...let's call it "unpretty" games, but he's a physical specimen at 6'5" for the job, is wicked smart, has a great arm, is dedicated to the game and his team, a workaholic, and loved by the players, etc. Yet there are a lot of fans who would relish taking him out back and burning him at the stake. I'm more patient (maybe that's not a good thing, I don't know) than a lot of people and realize athletes grow in time. He's gone from throwing balls to future doctors and surgeons, and handing off to RB's that are already being recruited by large law firms to the most professional of athletes who don't have visions of getting into the medical, legal, or pharmaceutical business
Sorry bout the name dropping, just thought it would take the pressure off me for believing in him :(
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 09, 2024, 07:58:11 PMThanks Lenn, I actually have my own opinion, but thought i'd give it some credibility by name dropping, lol
I think much more highly of DJ than a lot of fans. I won't make excuses for some of ...let's call it "unpretty" games, but he's a physical specimen at 6'5" for the job, is wicked smart, has a great arm, is dedicated to the game and his team, a workaholic, and loved by the players, etc. Yet there are a lot of fans who would relish taking him out back and burning him at the stake. I'm more patient (maybe that's not a good thing, I don't know) than a lot of people and realize athletes grow in time. He's gone from throwing balls to future doctors and surgeons, and handing off to RB's that are already being recruited by large law firms to the most professional of athletes who don't have visions of getting into the medical, legal, or pharmaceutical business
Sorry bout the name dropping, just thought it would take the pressure off me for believing in him :(
There are unlikable QBs for sure and DJ is not one of them. Folks here like him as a person. He is not getting it done. Doing things like when it is 3rd and 11 and passing for 2 yards to someone who has 3 defenders around him is a bad decision. He's got to throw to 1st down markers and he simply does not.
Let me start by saying I am not a Jones fan, from the start I thought he was way overdrafted at 6. I also cannot stand John Mara but the one thing he said that I agree was words to the effect that the team hasn't done right by Jones. Given that we're locked into Jones for 2024, regardless of who is the QB going forward for the long run, we need, at a minimum, a decent OL. I'm not talking all star OL, adequate would be a good start. Add to that, a WR that defenses would have to worry about. We need both whether or not Jones is our starter. If Jones starts, and stays healthy, a big if, and we've upgraded both areas, we'll do ok in my opinion. If we don't upgrade both, I don't think it matters who the QB is.
Quote from: spiderblue43 on February 09, 2024, 05:53:03 PMIt makes sense that Daboll wants to develop his own guy (McCarthy perhaps). Drafting him as the next stalwart qb would allow Mara and the media to ride out the Jones failure and look towards 2025. So..I think if there's a desire early that is looking long term..it's defensible with a swap in round 1.
That is all well and good but if we have the same kind of yeare as we did last year , Daboll will not not be around to develop his QB . Guess who will waiting by the phone for a call from Mr. Mara ?
Quote from: Philosophers on February 09, 2024, 10:11:57 PMThere are unlikable QBs for sure and DJ is not one of them. Folks here like him as a person. He is not getting it done. Doing things like when it is 3rd and 11 and passing for 2 yards to someone who has 3 defenders around him is a bad decision. He's got to throw to 1st down markers and he simply does not.
People have to understand it has nothing to do with Jones the person. We are frustrated as Giant fans at his poor play and the continual losing. We want to see winning. Stick with Jones while ignoring a young QB just, in my opinion, adds more years of frustration for Giant fans. It makes no sense really on many level to hope Jones recovers fully from his serious injury this year as well as elevate his performance to levels he never has in his career.
Quote from: katkavage on February 10, 2024, 06:47:18 AMPeople have to understand it has nothing to do with Jones the person. We are frustrated as Giant fans at his poor play and the continual losing. We want to see winning. Stick with Jones while ignoring a young QB just, in my opinion, adds more years of frustration for Giant fans. It makes no sense really on many level to hope Jones recovers fully from his serious injury this year as well as elevate his performance to levels he never has in his career.
100% I like Jones as a guy, but good organizations cut bait when something isn't working, they don't keep coming back to the same well hoping for something else. 49ers had no hesitation moving on from trey Lance, even bad teams like the Jets and Bears had no problem moving on from Darnold and Trubisky. Trubisky and Jones are almost the same qb stat wise and yet the Giants fan base refuse to let go of a bad qb even after watching the offense look competent under a journeyman backup when it was DOA with Jones. It's mind blowing that after 5 years of the same issues that a large portion want to continue doing the same thing. I think with an actual NFL starter at QB that the oline won't look as horrible and grabbing a few guys in FA for the line and you've transformed the offense in a couple moves.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 10, 2024, 10:13:22 AM100% I like Jones as a guy, but good organizations cut bait when something isn't working, they don't keep coming back to the same well hoping for something else. 49ers had no hesitation moving on from trey Lance, even bad teams like the Jets and Bears had no problem moving on from Darnold and Trubisky. Trubisky and Jones are almost the same qb stat wise and yet the Giants fan base refuse to let go of a bad qb even after watching the offense look competent under a journeyman backup when it was DOA with Jones. It's mind blowing that after 5 years of the same issues that a large portion want to continue doing the same thing. I think with an actual NFL starter at QB that the oline won't look as horrible and grabbing a few guys in FA for the line and you've transformed the offense in a couple moves.
I agree, but we still have all those Jones lovers who keep putting up threads about how Tiki thinks Jones is the real deal, and Simms says to give Jones another chance.
As others have said, Jones may well be the greatest guy in the locker room, but as know from past experience, the Giants just don't know how to move on and always seem to dwell in their own fantasy world of hoping someone will all of a sidden play like they hope he will.
Is Jones really going to remain an active hot debate topic among Giants fans again this off-season? Is there really still controversy about him at this point?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 10, 2024, 12:04:08 PMIs Jones really going to remain an active hot debate topic among Giants fans again this off-season? Is there really still controversy about him at this point?
Probably, a lot of people have very strong feelings about this subject.
Best case scenario: DJ gets a decent surrounding cast, and like Eli, gets us two Lombardies over the next few years
Worst case scenario: We trade our future for one of the main QBs in this year's draft, like Drake Maye...who ends up being a project no different from DJ. Meanwhile, the Cowboys get DJ, and they go on a tear winning SBs while Giants fans argue endlessly on this board that we should dump Maye (or whoever we drafted to lead us to the promise land) and move on because it's all about the QB and nothing more
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on February 10, 2024, 12:23:29 PMProbably, a lot of people have very strong feelings about this subject.
Best case scenario: DJ gets a decent surrounding cast, and like Eli, gets us two Lombardies over the next few years
Worst case scenario: We trade our future for one of the main QBs in this year's draft, like Drake Maye...who ends up being a project no different from DJ. Meanwhile, the Cowboys get DJ, and they go on a tear winning SBs while Giants fans argue endlessly on this board that we should dump Maye (or whoever we drafted to lead us to the promise land) and move on because it's all about the QB and nothing more
Since neither scenario is gonna happen, the alternative is to sit on hands? The reality is the Giants need an upgrade at QB and the offensive line. Both can be accomplished at the same time.