IMO the worst thing that happened to the Giants in the past 10 years is that they allowed the Eagles to trade up one draft spot ahead of them and take DaVonta Smith. Not only did they not get a true "can't-miss" WR they then agreed w/the Bears to trade down (apparently prioritizing WR over taking the best player available... Micah Parsons) and compounded that error by taking a loser WR (Toney) with the Bears' pick. IMO trading up one spot last year to be certain to obtain Banks was an ADMISSION of the magnitude of the error they made in 2021 by not trading up one spot to ensure they got Smith.
If anyone can cite a worse move or occurrence in the past 10 years, please feel free to do so (level of difficulty: easy). lol /sarcasm/
If anyone disagrees that last year's trading up one spot was completely unrelated to their failure to do so in 2021, please make your counter-argument (level of difficulty: not so easy).
Bob
For me it's a wash between not drafting Aaron Donald and not drafting Micah Parsons.
Quote from: TONKA56 on March 24, 2024, 10:44:28 AMFor me it's a wash between not drafting Aaron Donald and not drafting Micah Parsons.
Tonka: Good one. My only comment is that Donald truly is/was "too small" to play the position. That would have been a tough pick to explain to the NY/NJ media, IMO. Of course, it turned out to be a genius move for the team who took him, but other teams also passed on Donald, one of the truly great players of all time. Bob
DaVonta Smith? Meh.I'd rather have Parsons anyway.
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 10:47:03 AMTonka: Good one. My only comment is that Donald truly is/was "too small" to play the position. That would have been a tough pick to explain to the NY/NJ media, IMO. Of course, it turned out to be a genius move for the team who took him, but other teams also passed on Donald, one of the truly great players of all time. Bob
Winners know when to break from established metrics. Parcells said as much but stated it somewhat differently.
Losers run to where the ball was, not to where it's going to be.
Quote from: TONKA56 on March 24, 2024, 10:47:44 AMDaVonta Smith? Meh.I'd rather have Parsons anyway.
Tonka: I can't disagree with that, but the point is that they made BOTH mistakes at once, and then compounded their errors with more errors. It was truly disastrous, not only in terms of personnel, but also how it likely IMO altered the career of Daniel Jones. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 10:51:39 AMTonka: I can't disagree with that, but the point is that they made BOTH mistakes at once, and then compounded their error with more errors. It was truly disastrous, not only in terms of personnel, but also how it likely IMO altered the career of Daniel Jones. Bob
That's fair but I think this situation makes a case for not panicking and letting the draft come to you.
You gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em. The draft is a little bit of poker and Gettleman couldn't play poker worth a damn. He held pocket Aces and folded...not to mention, broadcasted to the world he wanted DaVonta Smith...duhhh ~X(
I concur - Bob's example in that draft flipped the switch from "improving", to "imploding"
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on March 24, 2024, 11:02:10 AMYou gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em. The draft is a little bit of poker and Gettleman couldn't play poker worth a damn. He held pocket Aces and folded...not to mention, broadcasted to the world he wanted DaVonta Smith...duhhh ~X(
I concur - Bob's example in that draft flipped the switch from "improving", to "imploding"
It's not the first time. Reese did a similar thing in 2014 when he wanted Doug Martin, but Martin was sniped by Tampa, so he panicked and took David Wilson.
There's been so many disastrous moves over the last decade it's hard to pick one.
I can't say missing out on a pint sized, albeit good WR, is the critical one.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 24, 2024, 12:47:35 PMThere's been so many disastrous moves over the last decade it's hard to pick one.
I can't say missing out on a pint sized, albeit good WR, is the critical one.
Agreed. The past decade-plus were wrought with so many horrible decisions. It's impossible to isolate just one. Isolating one sort of implies that had they gotten that one thing right, things would have been a lot different. I don't view that as being the case, myself. There were countless terrible decisions that hurt the team for years. If a single one of them had been done correctly, we'd still have been awful this whole time. There were too many other terrible ones. It has been one disaster after another.
I know the above sounds like a really grim, miserable take, but it is simply the truth.
You can look at it as just one error, but I see it as three. Tic Tac Doh!!! :doh:
I think without a doubt that was a disaster picking Toney but for me it was before that in 2019.
Reaching for Jones in 2019 instead of bolstering both lines and waiting on 2020 which was the best draft class for Qbs since Eli's class was the defining mistake of this past 10 years.
You didn't specify drafting mistake so I am going with hiring Gettleman as GM.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 24, 2024, 02:00:00 PMI think without a doubt that was a disaster picking Toney but for me it was before that in 2019.
Reaching for Jones in 2019 instead of bolstering both lines and waiting on 2020 which was the best draft class for Qbs since Eli's class was the defining mistake of this past 10 years.
J: That's on my top-10 list of recent disasters but much lower.
We don't know who they would have drafted instead of Jones. The next five PLAYERS picked were Josh Allen, TJ Hockenson, Ed Oliver, Devin Bush, Jonah Williams. The next five LINEMEN were Jonah Williams (obviously), Chris Lindstrom, Garrett Bradbury, Andre Dillard and Tytus Howard.
I'd bet fewer than five people here ever heard of most of those O-linemen (mainly because, except for Lindstrom, they all proved to be not-so-good. IMO, the odds of hitting on an OL instead of Jones were IMO slim-to-none.
Concerning what a talentless 1st-round 2019 was... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-regrading-2019-nfl-draft
IMO this year could turn out to be a repeat of 2019 (for QB's, at least). There's a good chance if they pick a QB, he'll turn out to be not worth spending a high 1st-rounder.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 24, 2024, 02:40:23 PMYou didn't specify drafting mistake so I am going with hiring Gettleman as GM.
AZ: You're right. And you're right. lol
I came in here to say the same thing, hiring Gettleman.
It's Gettleman.
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 02:48:07 PMJ: That's on my top-10 list of recent disasters but much lower.
We don't know who they would have drafted instead of Jones. The next five PLAYERS picked were Josh Allen, TJ Hockenson, Ed Oliver, Devin Bush, Jonah Williams. The next five LINEMEN were Jonah Williams (obviously), Chris Lindstrom, Garrett Bradbury, Andre Dillard and Tytus Howard.
I'd bet fewer than five people here ever heard of most of those guys (mainly because, except for Lindstrom, they all proved to be not-so-good. IMO, the odds of hitting on an OL instead of Jones were IMO slim-to-none.
Concerning what a talentless 1st-round 2019 was... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-regrading-2019-nfl-draft
IMO this year could turn out to be a repeat of 2019 (for QB's, at least). There's a good chance if they pick a QB, he'll turn out to be not worth spending a high 1st-rounder.
Brian Burns was taken 16th, 2 picks before Dex.
I think the worse thing that happened to the Giants was firing Tom Coughlin and keeping Jerry Reese, followed by hiring David Gettlmen.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2024, 07:44:49 PMI think the worse thing that happened to the Giants was firing Tom Coughlin and keeping Jerry Reese, followed by hiring David Gettlmen.
Isn't that three things?
:greetings:
Promoting Chris Mara to SVP of Player Personnel, followed closely by Reese's Superbowl clock in 2013.
Almost every other bad move this team has made spiraled out from those two original bad decisions.
The first one enshrined owner meddling as part of the player selection process.
The second one enshrined the philosophy of "we can just patch the team and make another run".
- Drafting Beckham over Donald and Martin? To give the team a spark.
- Hiring Gettleman? Continuity, we just need to patch the team.
- Hiring Shurmur? Get Eli a QB whisperer.
- Drafting Barkley? Let's get Eli the best weapon possible to make another run.
- Drafting Jones? Okay, so Eli is getting old, let's find the closest thing we can to Eli and we can still make another run at it.
Oh wait, none of those moves were 10 years ago. But still, the last decade of bad moves stems from those two moves.
Toney was completely awful and the third screw up in one round. That's simply mind boggling. Probably the dumbest move not counting OBJ's boat drama.
Obviously not taking Parsons would be the worst decision in the past 10 years. The second only was drafting Daniel Jones at #6. We were sold a bill of goods that several other teams were ready to draft him. Who spread those rumors, Dave Gettleman? We could have had Josh Allen (LB) and added Pasons the following year, we might have been nearly as good as the '80s LB corp.
Just a note and I know you only said 10 years, but if we go back further, we have made so many horrible mistakes in drafting, from Rocky Johnson to Joe Don Looney and then even to Cedric Jones, the list just goes on, so why just limit us to the past 10 years.
So another worst thing that doesn't involve the draft was watching Eli get old. To me, he could have played another couple of years with a decent enough OL, but we saw his skills go downhill. That, besides any drafting, was one of my worst Giants moments.
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 02:49:17 PMAZ: You're right. And you're right. lol
If I had to pick a drafting mistake it would be picking Barkley at #2. Not that it's a knock on Barkley - under the rules and conditions of today I wouldn't pick Jim Brown at #2.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2024, 07:44:49 PMI think the worse thing that happened to the Giants was firing Tom Coughlin and keeping Jerry Reese, followed by hiring David Gettlmen.
I'd throw in forcing Coughlin to fire Gilbride. A guy who gives you consistent top ten offenses doesn't grow on trees and his one bad year that was the basis for the firing was pure scapegoating because it wasn't on him, it was the start of the Giants personnel decine, particularly on the OL.
Everything in the Gettleman Era. Set the team back at least 5-8 years.
I so t get the Parsons vs Donald debate. Parains is great but Donald was great til the end. Something like 8x All Pro. Has to be Donald.
Hiring Gettleman gets my vote. I bought in to his hog mollie hogwash. I thought he was going to fix the line and get more years out of Eli.
Nothing he did worked in favor of the Giants.
Either scouting or coaching
No matter how bad you think the GM.was
Something wrong when our picks dont get better
There are some picks.gettleman mad that were just bad
(Toney ,that corerback who got.in trouble )
But even the good.players only seem.to.get better not.through coaching.but more it was too hard to.mess them.up
OBJ re-signing followed by the enormous dead cap hit. Single bad decision set us back..maybe multiple years.
Firing Coughlin as #2 mistake.
Maybe the worst thing was having so many viable candidates for the worst thing.
Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 24, 2024, 08:10:08 PMToney was completely awful and the third screw up in one round. That's simply mind boggling. Probably the dumbest move not counting OBJ's boat drama.
spider: Yeah, three mistakes involving a single pick says it all. Bob
Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 25, 2024, 01:53:02 AMMaybe the worst thing was having so many viable candidates for the worst thing.
You beat me to the punch. Good one. Bob
With respect to the sheer number of bad decisions he was involved in, I would have to say it was Dave Gettleman.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 24, 2024, 09:38:47 PMI'd throw in forcing Coughlin to fire Gilbride. A guy who gives you consistent top ten offenses doesn't grow on trees and his one bad year that was the basis for the firing was pure scapegoating because it wasn't on him, it was the start of the Giants personnel decine, particularly on the OL.
And that all began with Mara's "the offense is broken" comment.
If we are talking about picks they didn't make, there are so many and for just about every team. I mean, TJ Watt was drafted 30th. 29 teams made that mistake.
For the Giants, its really difficult to pick the worst, here are some 1st round picks they made:
Kadarius Toney
DeAndre Baker
Eli Apple
Ereck Flowers
That is not to mention things like tying up money in Kenny Golloday.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on March 24, 2024, 09:34:42 PMIf I had to pick a drafting mistake it would be picking Barkley at #2. Not that it's a knock on Barkley - under the rules and conditions of today I wouldn't pick Jim Brown at #2.
Still they got a productive player at #2, who certainly produced more than other 1st round selections, so I have a hard time calling it the worst move in a decade. The fact he has been their best offensive player since being drafted should tell us all the moves on offense that followed were probably worse.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 24, 2024, 02:00:00 PMI think without a doubt that was a disaster picking Toney but for me it was before that in 2019.
Reaching for Jones in 2019 instead of bolstering both lines and waiting on 2020 which was the best draft class for Qbs since Eli's class was the defining mistake of this past 10 years.
I agree they shouldn't have reached for Jones.
But did 2020 REALLY end up being the best QB class since Eli's class?
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