Big Blue Huddle

True. And it's not just Schoen. The Giants haven't drafted a decent starting OL later in the draft since probably David Diehl. That's 20+ years of failing to find a 4th or 5th round pick who can come in and be a quality starter on the OL.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on March 09, 2024, 10:43:07 AMNot every signing needs to be a "build for the future" type. There's value in signing very good vets on shorter deals, with much less risk for underperformance and then being locked into a long contract.

His pass coverage grade was 4th-highest in the league last year. Signing Williams would remove the need to draft a CB high this year, giving them one more year to see if Hawkins develops.

Did I say otherwise. Lol, yes some players are signed to play a role for a year or two. Thanks for clarifying that.

Good player but more of a stopgap at age 31. Not the type you build for the future with.

Edit for the individuals here who need more context: not that there's anything wrong with signing an older vet for a year or two.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 08, 2024, 05:17:25 PMI suspect they intend to play Caleb week one. I would think there would be a market for Fields given he still has a year left on his rookie deal. But maybe not.

I was surprised, when the Fields thread came up a while back, that there was talk of the Bears passing on Caleb and drafting a receiver instead, or that they might be able to get a first round pick for Fields. At the time I said I might be interested for a fourth round pick, but not higher.

The discussions happening now make more sense to me. I think you're probably right that there is probably a market for Fields if the Bears are interested in a mid-round pick in return. I think there are QB hungry teams out there that would make that move. I think what Lombardi is hearing is that no one sees Fields as an automatic starter. They likely see him as a guy that could come in and compete or just settle into a QB2 job.

Are we still in the era of draft incompetence that characterized the Reese and Gettleman regimes, where the Giants told the entire world who they wanted? Or is Schoen leveraging misinformation to his advantage?

A few weeks later they drafted Murray and traded Rosen.

https://twitter.com/AZCardinals/status/1095434489470214149?t=ys8R_1Nz34MJJFIBQ7jlRg&s=19

Quote from: Philosophers on February 25, 2024, 07:11:11 PMWell seconds rounds have also produced Michael Strahan, Rob Gronkowski, Derrick Henry, Drew Brees, Brett Favre

getting those guys is like winning the lottery lol. Good luck if that's your plan

Let's not overstate the value of a second round pick. The last three second rounders are JMS, Wandale, and Azeez. Anyone in their right mind would trade those three guys for a legitimate franchise QB prospect.

Second round picks are valuable, but let's not kid ourselves on how much they're actually worth.

I have a lot of respect for how Purdy handled himself in the game. He's not Mahomes, but no one is. Who knows, he may be back.

Yes, it was too long. And way too many camera cutaways to celebrities in the audience. Celebrities should be left for intros and halftime. The rest of the broadcast should focus on the game.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 11, 2024, 09:11:42 AMI think Jeremy Shockey was an inflection point for the Giants which led to their future success.  For the few seasons prior to him becoming a Giant, the Giants defense owned the Giants offense, kicking its a$$ in every practice.  What resulted was an offense that lacked confidence.  After Shockey gets drafted, at the rookie dinner with the team, he refused to stand up and sing.  Then, he got into a fight with Brandon Short, the LB.  As practices unfolded he started to beat defenders and pushing and shoving them, then other offensive players responded.  The offense got an identity, got confident and the rest is history.

Yes, he 100% helped change the culture. I thought Quenton Nelson could have been that guy a few years ago. He was a big missed opportunity for this team.

Quote from: kartanoman on February 11, 2024, 07:07:23 AMShockey was Jim Fassel's guy from the get-go for all the reasons mentioned above. In short, a disruptive force. He was all that and more in his early years.

I always believed Shockey was a team player from the standpoint he cared about his teammates, as well as his quarterback, but was known to speak his mind, like Tiki, to the press, which frustrated Coughlin. By 2007, after he sustained his injury, the contrasting style of Kevin Boss was so great that it seemed Eli performed better with the younger TE in the lineup. Shockey was already disgruntled and on the way out. The reasons were because he wanted to stand on the sideline during the Super Bowl and was told no. But it was a lot of other things as well. This sums it up well:

Inside Jeremy Shockey's Wild Giants Tenure

Peace!

That book excerpt is terrific. Really enjoyed reading it. Thanks for sharing!

Shockey made plays that could turn the momentum in a game. He was fun to watch. But his overall production always left you wanting more.

He lived up to his draft position for sure. There were a few players drafted later who were better players (Ed Reed) but there were also a lot of busts and mediocre players. They needed a weapon on offense and he was the best one in that draft.

He was a bad teammate. Disruptive and self centered. But he was one of the most competitive players on the field and cared about winning. Some teams need a player like Shockey stirring the pot. I'd want him on this iteration of the Giants to break them out of their low expectations and excuse making doldrums. But his personality didn't mesh well with Eli.

I also wonder how that 2008 season would have gone if they hadn't traded Shockey. When Plax shot himself, the team basically folded. You have to wonder how things could have gone if they still had Shockey on the team. Not to mention they traded him for basically nothing. Clint Sintim and Rhett Bomar which is a less than nothing return for a quality TE.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 10, 2024, 09:02:25 PMDoc, I never said not to plan for the future, not sure how you got that out of what I said. Rich poster an article that said teams might move up for a QB and I agree that some teams will. The point I was making, is the fact that every year there are can't miss players (especially at QB) and some (a lot) don't pan out. Unless a QB we love falls to us at 6...then the plan should be trading back enough to still get a player we need, while getting more picks. We are not a QB away from being any good. We are officially in rebuild mode.

Why does trading back have to be the plan if no franchise QB is available? I agree it should be considered but it shouldn't be automatic. This team needs a few impact players a lot more than it needs a lot of average players. The last time the Giants had a shot at one of those guys they passed on an impact linebacker and an impact OL. They ended up with Toney who is long gone and Neal who isn't going to last much longer if he doesn't improve. And they still need an impact pass rusher and OL.

So who specifically are they trading back for? They'd better know and they'd better be right. Because even if they can't get a QB, they may have a shot at an impact receiver or OL.

It's not the quantity of the picks, it's the quality. It's always the quality. Accumulating more picks is a smart thing to do when you've done a good job with your evaluations and you know the top prospects aren't as good as people think. As far as I'm concerned, if they trade back, they'd better be sure they aren't passing on the chance to draft the next Justin Jefferson or the next Ryan Ramczyk.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 10, 2024, 07:02:44 PMThis means nothing there's been quarterback classes where everyone is excited about in almost all the quarterbacks were bust. I'm thinking about Dante Culpepper's draft class.

Scouts were not big on Brock Purdy yet he's playing in the Super Bowl tomorrow

How do you plan for the future if you don't make a plan and just hope for the best? When does probability factor in?