Big Blue Huddle

The team was going to be better based on assumptions like Neal would be better, Jones would be better, Schmitz would make a huge difference, and the two rookie CB were going to make Jackson expendable.

Neal made zero improvement, Schmitz played like a rookie, and Jones turned back into a pumpkin after an outlier year that wasn't even that good on paper. Banks looks better on paper than on the field, and Hawkins isn't a starter.

But it was clear that last season saw a lot of wins that could have gone either way, a missed FG here, a pass made 6 inches deeper there. Their record was a bit of a mirage anyway.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 15, 2023, 08:48:12 PMWith the speed of the game, strength and momentum of opposing players that a player can execute the exact tackle he wants to do.  Maybe I am wrong.

Clearly they can, although I see some semi failed attempts where they don't fully get their legs around but still manage to fall on the runner's legs.

Quote from: jimc on December 16, 2023, 06:18:54 AMThe point I was trying to make is that it is a collision sport.  If you really want to reduce injuries, remove the collision. Flag football comes to mind.

Trying to make intentional collision safe seems "oxymoronish", but I get it.

I am trying point out that there is a clear distinction between injuries arising from collisions, and injuries arising from the application of technique designed to cause injury.

It's the distinction between a concussion suffered when someone's helmet hits a knee and a concussion caused by a shot to the head.

It's the distinction between tackling someone below the waist and diving at a player's knees.

These aren't distinctions? They're all just (shrug) collisions? They're all that stop the NFL players from wearing dresses?

The NFL took years to outlaw the horse collar, and only because so many tacklers were using it. They have to nip the hip drop tackle in the bud, or its eventual widespread use will land every good skill player on IR.

Quote from: jimc on December 15, 2023, 03:48:52 PMA collision sport will always have injuries.  At some point football will become a sophisticated video game. In that way no one will get injured. All the refs calls at some point will be reviewed.  Perhaps even the refs will become automated.

Baseball is close to eliminating ball and strike calls by the umpire. No one wants judgement calls. Everything has to be perfectly correct to satisfy some.

I had been talking about hip drop tackles since last season, a lone voice in the wind derided as a crank who doesn't understand football is a physical game, and injuries will happen. But I do know that. I know injuries are a part of almost any athletic contest.

But I cannot comprehend people who can't or won't distinguish between injuries arising from physical contact and injuries that arise from intentional application of leverage and technique. Hip drop tackles are no different than the days when D-linemen would tape silver dollars to their forearms and club the side of the helmet. Sure, there is some benefit to pass rushing when using such a technique, but you are knowingly causing injuries. Why wouldn't you want things like that legislated out of the game?

I dunno -- I guess there are some fans who yearn for the days when you could horse collar tackle and pull runners down by the facemask. I just don't get it.

Either it's coincidence or Taylor is a positive influence on rookie/young QBs, and perhaps the reason why Daboll wanted him on the team.

Quote from: zephirus on December 15, 2023, 11:44:54 AMYou can't legislate injuries out of the game without materially changing the game.  In the past 20 years we've seen:

- a massive increase in defensive holding and pass interference because poster-boy Peyton Manning (who I love anyway) couldn't win a championship and whined about the back-to-back playoff losses to the Patriots where they mauled his receivers.
- a ban on horse collar tackles because Roy Williams injured poster-boy Terrell Owens using the technique as the Eagles marched towards a Superbowl loss that the NFL lamented because those darn Patriots won again!
- a ban on hitting the quarterback below the knees because poster-boy Tom Brady got wiped out in Week 1 of 2008.
- a ban on lowering your helmet and initiating contact.
- While the NFL will characterize it as "defenseless", essentially any big hit on a receiver in the act of catching the ball is flagged, regardless of whether it meets the supposed criteria of "forcible contact to the head or neck area".
- new stipulations on personal fouls when sacking the quarterback including slinging him to the ground, landing with your body weight on the QB, and forcible contact to the head/neck area.

Look I don't want to be the guy who says "put skirts on them" but I do ask how we're supposed to maintain a spartan game or even remotely hope to play defense. 

This is a new tackling technique. The hip drop hasn't been injuring runners for decades because it started being used very recently. Frankly, it's complete BS to shrug your shoulders to this and say, "welp, that's football". It isn't -- it's a rugby move that is -- and let me be clear, no BS, it is absolutely being used by defenders to injure players.

You simply cannot use a new (and again, I stress NEW) tackling technique (as in, instructed, learned, and practiced) that will result in injury due to the mechanics of the tackle (ie, falling on the back of the legs with full weight and trapping the lower leg) and claim, "I didn't mean to hurt anyone". That's utter BS. Don't kid yourself, this is being done to injure players, full stop. It was inuring players in the NZ Rugby league (where it was developed), which is why they outlawed it. It's the reason why Florida State didn't make it to the playoffs -- they lost their starting QB to a hip drop tackle.

I don't understand the point of view of fans that if someone develops a new technique that frequently results in injuries that it should stay in the game or that it's some slippery slope to "flag football while wearing skirts", which is a repugnant sentiment to me. To advocate leaving avoidable injuries in the game is toxic. Is it  better game where everyone is at a high risk of injury and half the best offensive skill players are nursing leg injuries of varying degrees? To satisfy some knuckle dragging macho BS?

Sorry for the rant, but it raises my hackles when people try to justify or keep things like hip drop tackles in the game.

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 12, 2023, 12:15:24 PMRich: I thought this post was about something else.

Last night, the refs did a great job with every tough call (and there were a ton of them, for and against the Giants) and IMO they got them all correct.

I do believe the rules should be changed so that the ground cannot cause a fumble under ANY circumstances. The current rule is that a guy who slips and falls is still "a runner" which means what happened last night was definitely a fumble.  Just my viewpoint.

Bob

"Ground can't cause a fumble" was NEVER a rule, It was a pseudo-rule Madden made up. Everyone repeated it, but it's still 100% wrong. Even the booth tried to fit the fumble in the context of the ground causing a fumble. The ground has nothing to do with determining fumbles, there is nothing to change. If you are not down by contact or giving yourself up, it is a fumble if you lose the ball.

Quote from: T200 on December 11, 2023, 11:12:28 AMWhere does head-to-head record fall in the tie-breaker list?

It only applies if there are two teams with the same record. If there are more than two teams, it is purely based on SOS.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2023, 11:22:41 AMDaniel Jones can relate

I knew someone would say that 

I actually wrote something in anticipation, but I didn't want to be the one to bring DJ into it.

I know (assume) you're just joking, but to be clear: Jones does not make the throws for the receivers to drop. There is ZERO connection between Mahomes and Jones. It's laughable to think that.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2023, 11:19:57 AMThat was perhaps the biggest shocker yesterday.   Was part of CJ Stroud's success due to rookie WR Tank Dell?  Were people premature to declare Stroud the next coming?   Was it just a fluke that Stroud performed so poorly against the less-than-impressive Jets?   Are the Texans simply not as good as their 7-5 (now 7-6) record suggests?

What About the Zack Wilson?  What do you make of that?

Jets still have a good defense, and their secondary shut down the Texans passing game. And losing Tank Dell hurt the team. I don't think it diminishes Stroud's accomplishments this season.

As for Wilson -- he still has the arm talent, so it might have been reactionary to bench him for inferior talent. Maybe he just needed to sit and collect himself.

Their receiving corps outside of Kelce is letting the team down. Drops, fumbles, penalties are killing the team. It feels like they have dropped every long pass thrown by Mahomes. Just can't hang on to anything. As Gisele Bundchen once said, "You [have] to catch the ball when you're supposed to catch the ball". Mahomes can't throw it and catch it.

Note that Toney was directly responsible for two losses this season.

With this kind of production, it will be almost impossible to get back to the SB much less win it.

Quote from: LennG on December 10, 2023, 11:36:46 AMDoes anyone see a double of Hurts?

If Daniels has a double, it's Lamar Jackson. If there's a double of Hurts, it's Jalen Milroe of Alabama.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 08, 2023, 03:50:44 PMSo in the case where it's punted and the receiving team deflects it at the Los and it travels past the LOS then the ball hits the leg of the receiving team, the kicking team picks it up and possesses it. Whose ball is it? The kicking team right? Just the same as if it wasn't tipped. That's how I've always understood it to be.

Last night the broadcast team called it for the receiving team because it was blocked before any possession.

Ed, I watched that play again (it's a Patriots punt in the 4th with 13:30 left) and after the deflection, it ended up skidding past the line of scrimmage and the first player to touch it was a member of kicking team who downed it. Was there another punt or were you misremembering that it touched a Steeler past the LOS?

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 08, 2023, 11:49:50 AMCorrect, but somewhat irrelevant.  Either way he was not supposed to cross the white line or touch a player to break up a skirmish.  So they were incorrect, but in terms of rules it doesn't matter.

That is true, but some people were asking why the head of Lincoln field was on the Eagles sidelines. The answer is, he wasn't.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 08, 2023, 03:50:44 PMSo in the case where it's punted and the receiving team deflects it at the Los and it travels past the LOS then the ball hits the leg of the receiving team, the kicking team picks it up and possesses it. Whose ball is it? The kicking team right? Just the same as if it wasn't tipped. That's how I've always understood it to be.

Last night the broadcast team called it for the receiving team because it was blocked before any possession.

That would be a live ball if it first touches the member of the receiving team

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