Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 29, 2023, 09:12:39 AMH-T: I think Giants were thinking along your lines and just got the worse of two possible outcomes, apparently. 

I say "apparently" because it ain't over til it's over. You never know. Questions...

I actually think there was a third possibility which was more insidious: Jones continued in a relatively similar fashion, flashing potential at times, but mostly middling play with short-of-the-sticks-don't-turn-it-over-at-all-costs approach. Maybe the Giants eke out a few more wins with that, continue to convince themselves with another year he can be a demonstrably different player than the entirety of his career, and their draft position suffers. That's true QB hell.

QuoteIs the OL gelling, or playing better because they're rallying behind DeVito?

Or is it because recent competition stinks by comparison to the five teams they faced to open the season?

Or are DeVito's occasional excellent plays giving them hope and inspiration?

Bob

I don't know about rallying, as I think the Giants players generally like and respect DJ. I don't see why they wouldn't play hard for him. I would have to imagine having an actual vertical element to the offense takes some pressure off. Washington and New England are two of the easier teams the Giants have faced this season (and Washington sold at the deadline and Rivera looks like a goner, so they may be packing it in).

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on November 29, 2023, 10:15:51 AMI don't know about rallying, as I think the Giants players generally like and respect DJ. I don't see why they wouldn't play hard for him. I would have to imagine having an actual vertical element to the offense takes some pressure off. Washington and New England are two of the easier teams the Giants have faced this season (and Washington sold at the deadline and Rivera looks like a goner, so they may be packing it in).

H-T: I agree about the OL and Jones. Yes, occasional success deep and/or behind the linebackers doesn't hurt, but they've even picked up a few stunts and blitzes in the process. I believe a lot of the "improvement" is/was Pugh getting up to speed (from rusty to not too bad) in the past few weeks along with the return of injured guys.

Bob

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 28, 2023, 09:47:14 PMGood point that the fans would have understood an offer less than what they gave him. Where would you have drawn the line? A one year or multi year and how much?

Ed

 Most here had a number in mind that was a good deal for the Giants and Jones, something like 32-35 Mil. I think everyone could have lived with that, but Jones and his agent thought they could squeeze the Giants with a playoff game in the win column and they succeeded and we and the Giants are the losers.
\ How would you feel if Jones were making say 33mil? would we feel as bad now?

Quote from: coggs on November 28, 2023, 09:53:53 PMIf they didnt sign Jones and the season unfolded like it has, there would be a HUGE uproar about how Schoen needs to go.  He would not have ANY support among the fanbase,

This may be so, but if we didn't sign Jones and brought in a viable option like say Jimm G, who knows how the season might have gone? And, I truly believe most of the fans are not infatuated with Jones the way the Maras are. Most basically blame him for our downward turn and with good reason, so I really do not think the uproar would be as bad as you say.

Quote from: LennG on November 29, 2023, 11:20:43 AMEd

 Most here had a number in mind that was a good deal for the Giants and Jones, something like 32-35 Mil. I think everyone could have lived with that, but Jones and his agent thought they could squeeze the Giants with a playoff game in the win column and they succeeded and we and the Giants are the losers.
\ How would you feel if Jones were making say 33mil? would we feel as bad now?

On a one year deal? It would have hurt this year's cap but then he would be done. That's essentially the Tag amount.

I'm not sure about the financial implications, but whoever they brought in, short term, because I'm sure that would be their plan, the on field results would be no worse. They (Schoen/Daboll) both want to groom their own QB. Too bad they didn't do it immediately and were saddled with a mediocre QB to start their tenure.

I believe the Giants wiuks have started Taylor who'd get sacked 60+ times and the Giants would still be where they are at due to a crap OL and marginal QB play.

Quote from: LennG on November 29, 2023, 11:23:59 AMThis may be so, but if we didn't sign Jones and brought in a viable option like say Jimm G, who knows how the season might have gone? And, I truly believe most of the fans are not infatuated with Jones the way the Maras are. Most basically blame him for our downward turn and with good reason, so I really do not think the uproar would be as bad as you say.

IMO, they would be just as bad, if not worse with Jimmy G as QB.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 29, 2023, 11:28:58 AMOn a one year deal? It would have hurt this year's cap but then he would be done. That's essentially the Tag amount.

If they played their cards right, we should have been able to sign Jones for that under-inflated number and then either lock up Barkley or go out and possibly buy a decent enough QB. We did it with Kerry Collins years back. Going into this past offseason we weren't strapped for cash, we had some to be a player, but Jones prevented that with that massive contract, then Barkley, and then Lawrence.

The front office should not worry about the fans.  Fans have the temperament of children.  They'll stomp their feet, hold their breath till they look like Grumpy Smurf, and storm out in a huff.  Then when the blood seeps back to their brain, they'll come back in droves.  It happens all the time.  The NFL is a business and business decisions are made by people who have the inside info and will face consequences for their decisions.  Not by people who sew their names on the back of a # 56 jersey.  Jones was not, and is still not, worth the contract.  They did not believe in him fully by putting in a 2-year-and-out clause in the contract. They should have let him test FA to see that other teams weren't going to come close to 40 million dollars.  Or, throw him a bone and tag him for 30 + million.  Now Jones is taking up a roster spot next year because of salary implications.  Schoen had to say that he is the starter next year to save face.  But he should have to fight for his position, just like everyone else. 

Quote from: fromthebside on November 29, 2023, 01:59:14 PMThe front office should not worry about the fans.  Fans have the temperament of children.  They'll stomp their feet, hold their breath till they look like Grumpy Smurf, and storm out in a huff.  Then when the blood seeps back to their brain, they'll come back in droves.  It happens all the time.  The NFL is a business and business decisions are made by people who have the inside info and will face consequences for their decisions.  Not by people who sew their names on the back of a # 56 jersey.  Jones was not, and is still not, worth the contract.  They did not believe in him fully by putting in a 2-year-and-out clause in the contract. They should have let him test FA to see that other teams weren't going to come close to 40 million dollars.  Or, throw him a bone and tag him for 30 + million.  Now Jones is taking up a roster spot next year because of salary implications.  Schoen had to say that he is the starter next year to save face.  But he should have to fight for his position, just like everyone else. 

I love your throwing in an 80's Saturday morning cartoon reference.

Quote from: LennG on November 29, 2023, 11:23:59 AMThis may be so, but if we didn't sign Jones and brought in a viable option like say Jimm G, who knows how the season might have gone? And, I truly believe most of the fans are not infatuated with Jones the way the Maras are. Most basically blame him for our downward turn and with good reason, so I really do not think the uproar would be as bad as you say.

Im not sure you're correct re: most fans not being infatuated - Just using this board as an example, the vast majority of high volume posters were definitely infatuated with Jones, those that weren't were labelled "haters" amongst other things.

The idea that the majority were not delighted when Jones was re-signed is incorrect.

However, the majority of those Jones followers cartwheeling and taking victory laps over the extension have skipped to the other side. But that's sports fans, I guess.   

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 29, 2023, 07:03:06 PMIm not sure you're correct re: most fans not being infatuated - Just using this board as an example, the vast majority of high volume posters were definitely infatuated with Jones, those that weren't were labelled "haters" amongst other things.

The idea that the majority were not delighted when Jones was re-signed is incorrect.

However, the majority of those Jones followers cartwheeling and taking victory laps over the extension have skipped to the other side. But that's sports fans, I guess.   

Ed I won't quibble on those items. From reading this board, I would still say though that more than half t he board was not happy with Jones resigning the way he did. Most here know I was always a vocal poster against Jones, to begin with, but I still rooted for his success as the NY Giants QB. You simply cannot root for him to fail, and then the team fails. Only the real 'haters' not the ones labeled that by Jones's supporters wanted him to fail and that means the Giants fail also.
Anyway

I was hoping they would pass on Jones and sign Geno. He signed with Seattle for far less than Jones.

Jones was a crap QB who made something with his legs, and I knew once he had a contract they would throttle down the runs. They kind of didn't care when he was on the last year of his deal.

They were calling Jones Vanilla Vick, but really he was RG3 all over again, making plays with a gimmick offense and bombing out the next season