Big Blue Huddle

Did they ever interview him before they spent the 20th overall pick in the draft on him?  Glaring stupidity combined with a complete lack of dependability and accountability is not what you want for any player on your team, much less a first-round pick.

QuoteToney claimed that it's the referee's job to tell a player if he is lined up illegally. That's not a requirement of the officials' job, although officials do sometimes give warnings to players and coaches.

"Whether it was, an inch, two inches, whatever in front of the ball, the referee got a job to let me know," Toney told reporters in the Chiefs' locker room. "He didn't make no effort. You watch the video, he didn't make no effort to say anything about no alignment. So apparently, he wanted to do that regardless. But like I said, we're just going back to the details and just make sure we fine print everything."

Toney also said the NFL falsely claimed that a referee warned him about being offside. But referee Carl Cheffers' only comment came to a pool reporter immediately following the game, and Cheffers stood by the call and said the officials are under no obligation to warn players that they're offside.

"Then they came back and lied and said they gave me a warning, which I never talked to a ref," Toney said.

Toney said he considers the offside call "Pretty much bogus, and that it took away what should have been one of the highlights of Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce's career. Kelce caught a pass from Patrick Mahomes and then spontaneously lateraled the ball to Toney, who ran it in for a touchdown that the offside flag wiped out.

"Unfortunately, they took back the greatest play the greatest tight end that played the game did," Toney said. "Just a great play taken back by the greatest tight end."

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/kadarius-toney-refs-job-is-to-warn-me-they-took-away-one-of-the-greatest-plays-ever

Gettleman let anyone who would listen know that he wanted to draft Devonte Smith. Philly came in and drafted him first, then, as I see it, Gettleman panicked and picked Toney because he was dead set on getting a WR, thinking that was going to be the answer for a struggling offense.

Quote from: ozzie on December 16, 2023, 08:16:27 AMGettleman let anyone who would listen know that he wanted to draft Devonte Smith. Philly came in and drafted him first, then, as I see it, Gettleman panicked and picked Toney because he was dead set on getting a WR, thinking that was going to be the answer for a struggling offense.

He traded back with Chicago after Smith went off the board, so it wasn't a pure panic move to draft Toney. But it certainly was strange (to say the least) to make that trade only to draft a guy who at best was a gadget player in college with noteworthy and questionable decision making.

Toney is a very talented athlete

As I recall he played a role in KCs SB victory last year

As for 2023 the Chiefs got "Taylor Swifted". Kelce lost his compass. LOL

With all the love and respect for you Rich @MightyGiants , it is subjects like this that I am grateful that Coach Daboll and Joe Schoen wasted no time in sending him off to the highest bidder.

While we all can debate the value of the return of investment in that trade, I will say the drama with the whole offsides play illustrates why the Giants feel they made out well in the end.

Peace!

I remember the night well. I was both pissed and heartbroken when the Eagles jumped us to take Smith. I liked Parsons a hell of a lot, as most did, but I knew we weren't taking him given his iffy reputation at the time. And if I recall (I may be wrong about this) Slater had some injury concerns. So when they traded back, I liked the move because they got such a huge haul. The price the Bears paid in terms of draft capital and the points grid was definitely a high one.

I didn't mind the Toney pick at the time. I would not have wanted him in the top 15, but he struck me as kind of a raw player but an electric talent who might be able to be coached up into being a really good receiver. I remember at the time feeling like we desperately needed playmakers, and he fit that bill. I knew he was an unpolished route runner but he struck me as a guy who could just make plays if you get him the ball in space. I also thought the Bears would stink in 2022, so I thought we'd have a high pick from them, which we did.

So I can't sit here today and pretend I hated all of that. I hated that we didn't get Devonta Smith, as he was the apple of my eye in that draft for where we were picking, but in terms of how that unfortunate miss was handled I didn't have a problem with it at the time. And I also thought we got good value on Azeez in that draft, as did pretty much every pundit and, if memory serves, most posters here.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 16, 2023, 08:43:27 AMI remember the night well. I was both pissed and heartbroken when the Eagles jumped us to take Smith. I liked Parsons a hell of a lot, as most did, but I knew we weren't taking him given his iffy reputation at the time. And if I recall (I may be wrong about this) Slater had some injury concerns. So when they traded back, I liked the move because they got such a huge haul. The price the Bears paid in terms of draft capital and the points grid was definitely a high one.

I didn't mind the Toney pick at the time. I would not have wanted him in the top 15, but he struck me as kind of a raw player but an electric talent who might be able to be coached up into being a really good receiver. I remember at the time feeling like we desperately needed playmakers, and he fit that bill. I knew he was an unpolished route runner but he struck me as a guy who could just make plays if you get him the ball in space. I also thought the Bears would stink in 2022, so I thought we'd have a high pick from them, which we did.

So I can't sit here today and pretend I hated all of that. I hated that we didn't get Devonta Smith, as he was the apple of my eye in that draft for where we were picking, but in terms of how that unfortunate miss was handled I didn't have a problem with it at the time. And I also thought we got good value on Azeez in that draft, as did pretty much every pundit and, if memory serves, most posters here.

Jeff,

I think it's worth remembering that there are the teams, and then there are the rest of us (fans and draftniks).   Teams get to spend quite a bit of time interviewing players (at Combine/Bowl interviews, plus Zoom meetings and sometimes even team visits).  They also have scouts who talk to coaches and other people around players to find out about the person.

If you watch the tape, you get Toney, a talented player with a few off-the-field red flags who was also injury-prone.  When you talk to Toney, you get a sense that you don't want him anywhere near the team.

So that is why I question Judge and Gettleman on this.   

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 16, 2023, 08:53:04 AMJeff,

I think it's worth remembering that there are the teams, and then there are the rest of us (fans and draftniks).   Teams get to spend quite a bit of time interviewing players (at Combine/Bowl interviews, plus Zoom meetings and sometimes even team visits).  They also have scouts who talk to coaches and other people around players to find out about the person.

If you watch the tape, you get Toney, a talented player with a few off-the-field red flags who was also injury-prone.  When you talk to Toney, you get a sense that you don't want him anywhere near the team.

So that is why I question Judge and Gettleman on this.   

I certainly question the pick now, as anyone would.

How did you feel about it at the time? Did you express opposition to it? What about a few days after after you had had a chance to do more due diligence on him? Were you pessimistic? I don't recall who said what, but I remember people being generally optimistic about his potential.

I agree that the team obviously has more access, resources, and of course expertise, but the sentiment on Judge coming out of the 2020 season wasn't that bad. They had been 6-10, which was a clear improvement over the 2019 season, and they looked decent in a number of losses. I figured at the time that Judge had screened Toney and done his due diligence on him from a character standpoint. Obviously I ended up being wrong about all that, but I don't remember many other Giants fans/posters panning the pick at the time.

The marching orders were to get DJ Weapons. He was the BPA at that position when they traded down. I can't see anyone interviewing him and coming away thinking, that's our guy.

Because every team in the league is trying to find that tyreek hill clone. not saying they are the same caliber of player, but toney was supposed to have that game breaking ability. and with our oline issues, he was supposed to be a guy that takes a 6 yard pass 30 yards with his ability to make people miss.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 16, 2023, 08:59:15 AMI certainly question the pick now, as anyone would.

How did you feel about it at the time? Did you express opposition to it? What about a few days after after you had had a chance to do more due diligence on him? Were you pessimistic? I don't recall who said what, but I remember people being generally optimistic about his potential.

I agree that the team obviously has more access, resources, and of course expertise, but the sentiment on Judge coming out of the 2020 season wasn't that bad. They had been 6-10, which was a clear improvement over the 2019 season, and they looked decent in a number of losses. I figured at the time that Judge had screened Toney and done his due diligence on him from a character standpoint. Obviously I ended up being wrong about all that, but I don't remember many other Giants fans/posters panning the pick at the time.

Jeff,

I try to be optimistic about all the Giants' picks.   That said, he wasn't even on my draft list (players I wanted for the Giants) because of his size, injury history, and off-field issues.

I would also point out that once fans got to hear Toney talk, many red flags were raised.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 16, 2023, 09:11:02 AMJeff,

I try to be optimistic about all the Giants' picks.   That said, he wasn't even on my draft list (players I wanted for the Giants) because of his size, injury history, and off-field issues.

I would also point out that once fans got to hear Toney talk, many red flags were raised.

Funny, I recall being pleasantly surprised when I saw his size. I figured he was smaller than he is before I actually saw his height and weight. 6'0" 194 pounds for a player with his quickness and burst seemed like a really good size to me, not a liability. There are plenty of elite receivers who are both shorter and lighter than that, some significantly so.

Perhaps Gettleman mentally "retired" before he took the Giants GM job.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 16, 2023, 09:19:14 AMFunny, I recall being pleasantly surprised when I saw his size. I figured he was smaller than he is before I actually saw his height and weight. 6'0" 194 pounds for a player with his quickness and burst seemed like a really good size to me, not a liability. There are plenty of elite receivers who are both shorter and lighter than that, some significantly so.

I wanted the Giants to draft a true X receiver and Toney is undersized to play that position.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 16, 2023, 08:11:47 AMDid they ever interview him before they spent the 20th overall pick in the draft on him?  Glaring stupidity combined with a complete lack of dependability and accountability is not what you want for any player on your team, much less a first-round pick.


https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/kadarius-toney-refs-job-is-to-warn-me-they-took-away-one-of-the-greatest-plays-ever

And now Mahomes and Reid have backed off, essentially admitting it was a correct call and that Toney failed to point to the sidelines, which is how a receiver asks if his position is OK.  It's a learning moment for Reid and Mahomes.  Toney is a weak reed to assume he did the right thing.