Big Blue Huddle

I think it's worth a look.


https://walterfootball.com/draft2024QB.php

Good short points and stats. Looks like each QB has at least a few warts. Personally, I think Drake Maye is the safest bet. Although I think Bo Nix is the most NFL-ready. It is concerning that most pundits see him as a backup or out of the top 5 class. This one has him at 4. The Huddle Report at 6 and an early second-round pick. The 40 times are high, especially on Daniels who was clocked at a 4.5 and his legs are his attribute.

The below excerpt on Penix is less than ideal.


In the back half of the season, Penix showed some accuracy issues, with many easy would-be completions being lost to passes off the mark. Penix needs to improve his accuracy and mechanics, plus his footwork will need development for the pros. However, there is talk that Penix was playing hurt in the back half of 2023, which impacted his accuracy. Sources with NFL teams said that vision is a problem for Penix, who either doesn't read the coverage or pre-determines his throws and pushes them into coverage regardless of whether his receiver is open. Penix demonstrates some decision-making issues when teams drop seven or eight and rush him with only four or three defenders.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 26, 2024, 03:42:31 PMThe below excerpt on Penix is less than ideal.


In the back half of the season, Penix showed some accuracy issues, with many easy would-be completions being lost to passes off the mark. Penix needs to improve his accuracy and mechanics, plus his footwork will need development for the pros. However, there is talk that Penix was playing hurt in the back half of 2023, which impacted his accuracy. Sources with NFL teams said that vision is a problem for Penix, who either doesn't read the coverage or pre-determines his throws and pushes them into coverage regardless of whether his receiver is open. Penix demonstrates some decision-making issues when teams drop seven or eight and rush him with only four or three defenders.

As @Ed Vette said, all the QBs have at least some warts.  That's why I started the thread about QB traits. What traits we value determines which QBs we will like and which we will be less enthusiastic about.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 26, 2024, 03:55:10 PMAs @Ed Vette said, all the QBs have at least some warts.  That's why I started the thread about QB traits. What traits we value determines which QBs we will like and which we will be less enthusiastic about.

True, but that bold faced passage includes a handful of different concerns, not just one or even two.

The following is a look head assessment not an analysis or comparison of Daniel Jones in retrospect. In this particular Walter Football instance, can we find instruction despite our now firmly entrenched biases concerning the Giants pre-2019 Draft and more importantly the accuracy of all such predicates of the kind of which we can expect to be deluged in the next three months?


Daniel Jones Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell

Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Throws a good deep ball
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Upside

Weaknesses:
Will throw into coverage that he shouldn't
Needs to improve timing
Holds the ball too long
Could shorten his delivery
Broken collarbone in 2018


Summary: Duke's head coach, David Cutcliffe, is one of the most valued and respected quarterback gurus in football. He was the coaching mentor to both Peyton and Eli Manning, and at Duke, Cutcliffe provided Jones very good preparation for the NFL over his three years as the Blue Devils' starting quarterback.

As a freshman, Jones connected on 63 percent of his passes for 2,836 yards with 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions. In 2017, he completed 56 percent of his passes for 2,439 yards with 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. Jones had his best season in 2018, despite dealing with some injuries. He completed 61 percent of his passes on the year for 2,674 yards with 22 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Many around the league thought Jones would return for his redshirt senior year, but he decided to jump to the next level and declared for the 2019 NFL Draft.

There is a lot to like about Jones, and he has the potential to be a franchise quarterback with his ability to be a pro-style pocket passer. Jones has a strong arm and can really spin the ball. That was clearly seen by area scouts and the rest of the league at the Senior Bowl. Jones has the ability to make all the throws needed for the NFL. He can loft in touch passes downfield and throw some fastballs into tight windows. Jones is very good at putting air underneath his touch passes to drop them in the bucket and throws a very catchable ball.

Jones has been well prepared for the NFL, as he is an intelligent signal-caller. In speaking to one NFC general manager, they really liked how Jones knew where all of his receivers would be and was able to move to them when he had to throw under duress. Jones has quality field vision and works beyond his primary read. He does a decent job of dissecting the coverage the defense is employing, and is able to manipulate coverage with his eyes.

In the face of a rush, Jones stands tall and keeps his eyes downfield while the rush closes in on him. While Jones is not a dynamic runner for the NFL, he does move around pretty well and can pick up some yards on the ground while also being able to buy time through scrambling. Additionally, Jones can make some nice throws on the run. Given the speed of pro defenders, Jones is not a true rushing threat, but he can be functional enough to dodge some sacks and pick up some yards on the ground when nothing is open downfield.

As a passer, Jones does have things to work on for the NFL. He can hold the ball too long and not pull the trigger fast enough. With the speed of pro defenses, Jones has to be more decisive and get the ball out faster when he has an open receiver. Jones' timing should improve with more experience and coaching. There were also too many times when Jones would force some throws into coverage. He can trust his arm too much and sometimes throws passes that he shouldn't. It also wouldn't hurt Jones to shorten his delivery, which will help him to be effective for the faster pro game with its smaller windows of time to complete passes. It would also help him by reducing the time for pass-rushers to get to him.

For the 2019 NFL Draft, Jones looks like a consensus first-round pick from speaking with team sources. He could become a franchise quarterback and be a good pro starter. Three general managers told me they thought that Jones would rise in the leadup to the draft and be the first quarterback taken. Regardless of if he is the initial signal-caller to go off the board, Jones should be a top-20 pick.


Player Comparison: Eli Manning. Jones has the look of a Manning with his strong arm, pocket presence, field vision, and passing polish. In terms of his flaws, Jones is more similar to Eli Manning than Peyton Manning.

Cheers!

Quote from: Painter on January 26, 2024, 04:01:04 PMThe following is a look head assessment not an analysis or comparison of Daniel Jones in retrospect. In this particular Walter Football instance, can we find instruction despite our now firmly entrenched biases concerning the Giants pre-2019 Draft and more importantly the accuracy of all such predicates of the kind of which we can expect to be deluged in the next three months?


Daniel Jones Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell

Ha, a lot they know.            

Strengths:
Above-average accuracy
Can throw a fastball into tight windows
Good height
Able to loft in touch passes
Throws a very catchable ball
Stands tall in the pocket despite the rush
Good field vision at times
Moves his eyes
Works through his progression
Can throw receivers open
Can push the ball downfield
Throws a good deep ball
Has more mobility than many realize
Can buy time or pick up yards on the ground
Good size for a NFL starting quarterback
Intelligent
Shows the ability to read defenses
Knows where his receivers are on each play
Upside

Weaknesses:
Will throw into coverage that he shouldn't
Needs to improve timing
Holds the ball too long
Could shorten his delivery
Broken collarbone in 2018


Summary: Duke's head coach, David Cutcliffe, is one of the most valued and respected quarterback gurus in football. He was the coaching mentor to both Peyton and Eli Manning, and at Duke, Cutcliffe provided Jones very good preparation for the NFL over his three years as the Blue Devils' starting quarterback.

As a freshman, Jones connected on 63 percent of his passes for 2,836 yards with 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions. In 2017, he completed 56 percent of his passes for 2,439 yards with 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. Jones had his best season in 2018, despite dealing with some injuries. He completed 61 percent of his passes on the year for 2,674 yards with 22 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Many around the league thought Jones would return for his redshirt senior year, but he decided to jump to the next level and declared for the 2019 NFL Draft.

There is a lot to like about Jones, and he has the potential to be a franchise quarterback with his ability to be a pro-style pocket passer. Jones has a strong arm and can really spin the ball. That was clearly seen by area scouts and the rest of the league at the Senior Bowl. Jones has the ability to make all the throws needed for the NFL. He can loft in touch passes downfield and throw some fastballs into tight windows. Jones is very good at putting air underneath his touch passes to drop them in the bucket and throws a very catchable ball.

Jones has been well prepared for the NFL, as he is an intelligent signal-caller. In speaking to one NFC general manager, they really liked how Jones knew where all of his receivers would be and was able to move to them when he had to throw under duress. Jones has quality field vision and works beyond his primary read. He does a decent job of dissecting the coverage the defense is employing, and is able to manipulate coverage with his eyes.

In the face of a rush, Jones stands tall and keeps his eyes downfield while the rush closes in on him. While Jones is not a dynamic runner for the NFL, he does move around pretty well and can pick up some yards on the ground while also being able to buy time through scrambling. Additionally, Jones can make some nice throws on the run. Given the speed of pro defenders, Jones is not a true rushing threat, but he can be functional enough to dodge some sacks and pick up some yards on the ground when nothing is open downfield.

As a passer, Jones does have things to work on for the NFL. He can hold the ball too long and not pull the trigger fast enough. With the speed of pro defenses, Jones has to be more decisive and get the ball out faster when he has an open receiver. Jones' timing should improve with more experience and coaching. There were also too many times when Jones would force some throws into coverage. He can trust his arm too much and sometimes throws passes that he shouldn't. It also wouldn't hurt Jones to shorten his delivery, which will help him to be effective for the faster pro game with its smaller windows of time to complete passes. It would also help him by reducing the time for pass-rushers to get to him.

For the 2019 NFL Draft, Jones looks like a consensus first-round pick from speaking with team sources. He could become a franchise quarterback and be a good pro starter. Three general managers told me they thought that Jones would rise in the leadup to the draft and be the first quarterback taken. Regardless of if he is the initial signal-caller to go off the board, Jones should be a top-20 pick.


Player Comparison: Eli Manning. Jones has the look of a Manning with his strong arm, pocket presence, field vision, and passing polish. In terms of his flaws, Jones is more similar to Eli Manning than Peyton Manning.

Cheers!

As has been said, all the potential first-round picks all have some warts. And, that is at the college level. When I hear ball security issues, to me, that is a huge red flag. Once a guy is known for that, he is relentlessly hounded at giving up the ball. When I read need to work on accuracy, I also cringe. I always thought accuracy was a natural trait and could not be taught. You can improve the mechanics, but when a guy isn't accurate in college, he sure will be the same way in the NFL where the rush is always there and you just need to get rid of the ball quickly. I also cringe a bit at thinking maybe one of these guys, who they say has to get rid of the ball quicker, were on the Giants, he would end up getting killed here.
And then with all the hoopla, a guy like Purdy comes along and who gives a darn what was said about him on paper?

Quote from: Ed Vette on January 26, 2024, 03:15:50 PMGood short points and stats. Looks like each QB has at least a few warts. Personally, I think Drake Maye is the safest bet. Although I think Bo Nix is the most NFL-ready. It is concerning that most pundits see him as a backup or out of the top 5 class. This one has him at 4. The Huddle Report at 6 and an early second-round pick. The 40 times are high, especially on Daniels who was clocked at a 4.5 and his legs are his attribute.

Ed: Once again we agree about QB's.  Maye is the safest bet, but IMO not worth a 1st-round pick as high as the Giants' pick.

And I also see Nix (as of today) as the nearest thing to an NFL QB, but he's also not high 1st-round material.

Lastly, to repeat my mantra, until we have an OL worthy of using a high 1st-round pick on a QB, we should not use a high first-round pick on a QB.

Bob

PS. The rest of the mantra is... use every asset at our disposal to get Harrison, Jr. (obviously, if the Bears want him, it would probably take two future 1st-round picks plus more). I would still do it.  Having that guy will suddenly make our three QB's and so-so WR corps shine.  And IMO Wan'Dale's gonna shine next year anyway, but pairing him and Slayton with Harrison, Jr., will make it almost impossible for any QB to fail.

PPS. Oops...  I forget the unavoidable and irreplaceable third part of the mantra... since the most important goal of the team is to sell as many hot dogs and T-shirts as possible... no player in this draft IMO will sell more of them than Harrison, Jr.

Two lesser prospects that intrigue me.

First, has shade of Josh Allen

7. Tennessee image Joe Milton*, QB, Tennessee
Heeight: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.
1/23/24: Milton started out his collegiate career at Michigan before transferring to Tennessee. With good size and a cannon for an arm, Milton has serious passing talent for the next level. Milton can be deadly when given time, but he does not throw well on the run. In the pocket, Milton can be accurate and challenge defenses at every level. In 2023, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,813 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions. Milton was invited to the Senior Bowl.



The second one sounds like he could be flying under the radar

9. Tulane image Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
Heeight: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
1/23/24: Pratt was a consistent quarterback for the Green Wave over the last four years. In 2023, he completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,406 yards, 22 touchdowns and five interceptions. In 2022, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards, 27 touchdowns and five interceptions.

Pratt has quality size to him. With a strong Senior Bowl performance, he could be a riser for the 2024 NFL Draft.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 27, 2024, 10:19:59 AMTwo lesser prospects that intrigue me.

First, has shade of Josh Allen

7. Tennessee image Joe Milton*, QB, Tennessee
Heeight: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.
1/23/24: Milton started out his collegiate career at Michigan before transferring to Tennessee. With good size and a cannon for an arm, Milton has serious passing talent for the next level. Milton can be deadly when given time, but he does not throw well on the run. In the pocket, Milton can be accurate and challenge defenses at every level. In 2023, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,813 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions. Milton was invited to the Senior Bowl.



The second one sounds like he could be flying under the radar

9. Tulane image Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
Heeight: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
1/23/24: Pratt was a consistent quarterback for the Green Wave over the last four years. In 2023, he completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,406 yards, 22 touchdowns and five interceptions. In 2022, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards, 27 touchdowns and five interceptions.

Pratt has quality size to him. With a strong Senior Bowl performance, he could be a riser for the 2024 NFL Draft.

Rich: Great mention of Pratt!!! 

I see him going in the third round to a team that knows what they're doing.

Does that leave us out of the picture?  lol

Bob

I don't think a QB is high on the needs list of the Front office. But if Penix fell because of concerns about his injury history, and he was still on the board in the middle rounds, I could see the Giants taking him and then spending a couple of years getting him physically and mentally ready for the NFL. If DJ becomes a star, he'd still be an asset as a backup and perhaps even a big trading card down the road

Probably won't happen, but if he fell and some team was willing to spend a couple of years fixing his injury issues and getting him up to NFL standards, he'd be a steal

Quote from: Bob In PA on January 27, 2024, 10:16:42 AMEd: Once again we agree.  Maye is the safest bet, but IMO not worth a 1st-round pick as high as the Giants' pick.

And I also see Nix (as of today) as the nearest thing to an NFL QB, but he's also not high 1st-round material.

Lastly, to repeat my mantra, until we have an OL worthy of using a high 1st-round pick on a QB, we should not use a high first-round pick on a QB.

Bob

PS. The rest of the mantra is... use every asset at our disposal to get Harrison, Jr. (obviously, if the Bears want him, it would probably take two future 1st-round picks plus more). I would still do it.  Having that guy will suddenly make our three QB's and so-so WR corps shine.  And IMO Wan'Dale's gonna shine next year anyway, but pairing him and Slayton with Harrison, Jr., will make it almost impossible for any QB to fail.

I agree with the Oline issues. Where we may or may not disagree in on the QB. Right now unless DJ has a complete turnaround this season, they will not move on with his contract unless it's re-negotiated and I doubt they would do that unless he can play at backup money. DeVito is not a Franchise QB but can be a backup for this season. Perhaps. They need to take a chance on a QB and I don't see the top bunch dropping to the second round. I'd love to have MHJ but unless they fix that line with Jones, he will not be effective. Tyrod Taylor proved that a decent QB can be somewhat effective with this existing Offense. I see the draft going, Williams, Maye, MHJ, Daniels, Alt, Fashanu, Nabors, Bowers, Nix. They will have a choice of a WR, QB and OT. If they trade up it will be for Maye, imo. I would rather they trade up for that QB next season for Sanders if they were sitting in the same position and I don't have a lot of confidence with a new DC coming on and perhaps losing Kafka too. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 27, 2024, 10:19:59 AMTwo lesser prospects that intrigue me.

First, has shade of Josh Allen

7. Tennessee image Joe Milton*, QB, Tennessee
Heeight: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.68.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.
1/23/24: Milton started out his collegiate career at Michigan before transferring to Tennessee. With good size and a cannon for an arm, Milton has serious passing talent for the next level. Milton can be deadly when given time, but he does not throw well on the run. In the pocket, Milton can be accurate and challenge defenses at every level. In 2023, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,813 yards, 20 touchdowns and five interceptions. Milton was invited to the Senior Bowl.



The second one sounds like he could be flying under the radar

9. Tulane image Michael Pratt, QB, Tulane
Heeight: 6-3. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.75.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.
1/23/24: Pratt was a consistent quarterback for the Green Wave over the last four years. In 2023, he completed 66 percent of his passes for 2,406 yards, 22 touchdowns and five interceptions. In 2022, he completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,010 yards, 27 touchdowns and five interceptions.

Pratt has quality size to him. With a strong Senior Bowl performance, he could be a riser for the 2024 NFL Draft.

Rich - I saw Joe Milton at Michigan.  He can throw it to Mars but he can't hit a house from 30 yards.  Horrible accuracy.  No sense of touch.

Quote from: Philosophers on January 27, 2024, 11:07:08 AMRich - I saw Joe Milton at Michigan.  He can throw it to Mars but he can't hit a house from 30 yards.  Horrible accuracy.  No sense of touch.

That was the knock on Josh when he came out.  Under Daboll that was fixed