PFF QB Rankings 50% or more snaps

[Ed Vette]

Highlighted, Pass, Run, Fumble and Total Offense. The biggest surprises for me are Dalton and Brissett and Mac Jones.

Thoughts and observations?

[Ed Vette]

With this chart you can compare or equate Passing to Pass Blocking and Run to Run Blocking by team. In the case of the Giants Pass to PB is close. Other teams and QB's it's not.

Thoughts?

[kingm56]

Thanks for posting this information, Ed! When compared with other data, it appears DJ is exactly who we thought he was:

PFF #19
QBR #15
RTG #17

IMO, any notion of him being a top 10 QB should be resolved.  As I see it, there are two critical questions remaining:

1. Can you find a top 12 QB in the next two years?
2. If you can't, how much money/years do you offer DJ?
*The Giants roster is probably too strong to tank like Mia to get a top 5 pick in '24

I continue to believe the max contract the Giants will over is 3 yrs/$75M...if they choose to offer him one at all. I still believe they will elect to go a different direction as the offense has been objectionably bad for all four years he's been our QB.  Regardless, I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants use their first three picks on the offense.

The Oline chart correlates with my offseason musings and general observations thus far, which are as follows:

1. This unit will be better run than pass blockers as the IOL has a history of being average to below average at the latter.
2. The oline hasn't been nearly as bad as indicated here. 

[True Blue]

Tuas 90.4 passing grade stands out to me. I haven't watched the Dolphins this year and knew he was doing well this year. Didn't realize how well, good for him, he had a scary injury this year happy to see him come back and play well

[MightyGiants]

Thanks for posting this information, Ed! When compared with other data, it appears DJ is exactly who we thought he was:

PFF #19
QBR #15
RTG #17

IMO, any notion of him being a top 10 QB should be resolved.  As I see it, there are two critical questions remaining:

1. Can you find a top 12 QB in the next two years?
2. If you can't, how much money/years do you offer DJ?
*The Giants roster is probably too strong to tank like Mia to get a top 5 pick in '24

I continue to believe the max contract the Giants will over is 3 yrs/$75M...if they choose to offer him one at all. I still believe they will elect to go a different direction as the offense has been objectionably bad for all four years he's been our QB.  Regardless, I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants use their first three picks on the offense.

Since most people appreciate that a QB is impacted by the talent around him.  Here are some other rankings

His O-line

Thomas 3rd among tackles
Bredeson 62nd or Azeudu 77th (plus a terrible performance by Gates and Anderson) among guards
Feliciano 27th among centers
Glowinski 40th among guards
Neal 73rd among tackles

at receiver

Slayton 27th among WRs
James 65th among WRs
Johnson and Sills ranking 109 and 115

TE

Bellinnger 16th
Myraik 27th

Receiving RB

Barkley 42nd receiving grade among 20% rushing attempts

Now I would think it's worth considering where these rankings have Jones and then consider where the rankings of his supporting cast sit.  Does the cast drag down Jones by ranking lower than Jones, or do they lift him up by ranking higher than Jones? 

Is my position unreasonable?  Would the poor supporting cast (I am not even factoring in injuries and the revolving door at receiver that made it harder for Jones to develop chemistry) pull Jone's rankings down?

[MightyGiants]

Tuas 90.4 passing grade stands out to me. I haven't watched the Dolphins this year and knew he was doing well this year. Didn't realize how well, good for him, he had a scary injury this year happy to see him come back and play well

Tua feels like he is back in Alabama throwing to wide-open receivers again.   With the number one WR Tyreek Hill and the  13th WR Jaylen Waddle

[Ed Vette]

Receiver Rankings.

[Ed Vette]

Interesting to see which QB's elevated their Receivers and which Receiving Corp elevated their QB. Looks like the Niners might be ok with Jimmy G out for the season and I can understand Brady and Rodger's frustrations. Mahomes, Hurts, Burrow and Dalton all better. Falcons, Lions, Dallas and Raiders Receivers outplaying their QB. DJ and crew the same as was the Oline.

[madbadger]

Since most people appreciate that a QB is impacted by the talent around him.  Here are some other rankings

His O-line

Thomas 3rd among tackles
Bredeson 62nd or Azeudu 77th (plus a terrible performance by Gates and Anderson) among guards
Feliciano 27th among centers
Glowinski 40th among guards
Neal 73rd among tackles

at receiver

Slayton 27th among WRs
James 65th among WRs
Johnson and Sills ranking 109 and 115

TE

Bellinnger 16th
Myraik 27th

Receiving RB

Barkley 42nd receiving grade among 20% rushing attempts

Now I would think it's worth considering where these rankings have Jones and then consider where the rankings of his supporting cast sit.  Does the cast drag down Jones by ranking lower than Jones, or do they lift him up by ranking higher than Jones? 

Is my position unreasonable?  Would the poor supporting cast (I am not even factoring in injuries and the revolving door at receiver that made it harder for Jones to develop chemistry) pull Jone's rankings down?

Nobody here will disagree that the talent on offense has been sorely lacking.

The question is do we owe it to him to overpay him relative to his actual performance until we can get the talent needed to give him a fair chance? If everything goes perfectly that process will probably take two years.

I think we have enough data points to say that while he's been hamstrung by a poor supporting cast that it's clear he'll never be an elite quarterback. No elite quarterback has ever emerged in his fifth or six year in the league. The excuses are valid but I'm tired of waiting. 

[kingm56]

Since most people appreciate that a QB is impacted by the talent around him.  Here are some other rankings

His O-line

Thomas 3rd among tackles
Bredeson 62nd or Azeudu 77th (plus a terrible performance by Gates and Anderson) among guards
Feliciano 27th among centers
Glowinski 40th among guards
Neal 73rd among tackles

at receiver

Slayton 27th among WRs
James 65th among WRs
Johnson and Sills ranking 109 and 115

TE

Bellinnger 16th
Myraik 27th

Receiving RB

Barkley 42nd receiving grade among 20% rushing attempts

Now I would think it's worth considering where these rankings have Jones and then consider where the rankings of his supporting cast sit.  Does the cast drag down Jones by ranking lower than Jones, or do they lift him up by ranking higher than Jones? 

Is my position unreasonable?  Would the poor supporting cast (I am not even factoring in injuries and the revolving door at receiver that made it harder for Jones to develop chemistry) pull Jone's rankings down?

Rich,

First, the bold comment doesn't lend any credibility to the notion you're 'natural' on this subject.   If comes off as very passive-aggressive and depicts a person who's completely opposed to an alternate opinion.  Maybe not your intent, but that's how it comes off.   It also intrigues me that you would make such a statement when I used the calculous for evaluating QBs that YOU defined.

Secondly, I have consider your point in great detail; however, I believe your approaching this discussion in a vacuum.  For your point to be relevant, you would have to compare and contrast the Giants offensive talent to other teams with a top 12 QB.  I've already performed this exercise and know the results.  I recommend you focus on Balt and Chi. I think this exercise will allow you to glean that you can be a top 12 QB with limited supporting talent. You can also look at Cinci, who currently has the #25 ranked oline and have been playing without Chase for more than a month; yet, Joe Burrow is still a top 3 QB.  In point of fact, only a handful of QBs enjoy above average WRs, TEs, Olines, and RBs.  KC for example has terrible WRs (injuries) and no running game. They have an elite TE and good oline.  At best, you get two of the four in the modern NFL.  I believe the Giants have an effective TE, elite RB, elite LT and average oline.  Those are better tools the Chi (lost Moony) or Balt.   In short, you can be a top 12 QB without top-tier WRs. 

[kingm56]

Interesting to see which QB's elevated their Receivers and which Receiving Corp elevated their QB. Looks like the Niners might be ok with Jimmy G out for the season and I can understand Brady and Rodger's frustrations. Mahomes, Hurts, Burrow and Dalton all better. Falcons, Lions, Dallas and Raiders Receivers outplaying their QB. DJ and crew the same as was the Oline.

Fields, Herbert, Jackson, Jacoby and Brady seem to playing well with subpar WRs.  BTW, how do Julio, Evans and Godwin rank so low? 

[True Blue]

Since most people appreciate that a QB is impacted by the talent around him.  Here are some other rankings

His O-line

Thomas 3rd among tackles
Bredeson 62nd or Azeudu 77th (plus a terrible performance by Gates and Anderson) among guards
Feliciano 27th among centers
Glowinski 40th among guards
Neal 73rd among tackles

at receiver

Slayton 27th among WRs
James 65th among WRs
Johnson and Sills ranking 109 and 115

TE

Bellinnger 16th
Myraik 27th

Receiving RB

Barkley 42nd receiving grade among 20% rushing attempts

Now I would think it's worth considering where these rankings have Jones and then consider where the rankings of his supporting cast sit.  Does the cast drag down Jones by ranking lower than Jones, or do they lift him up by ranking higher than Jones? 

Is my position unreasonable?  Would the poor supporting cast (I am not even factoring in injuries and the revolving door at receiver that made it harder for Jones to develop chemistry) pull Jone's rankings down?

Every team has 2 starting WRs making 64 total, some have 3 depending on their system and personnel increasing that number. Having the 27 Ranked WR would indicate he has a well above average WR based on these metrics, with another one spot outside all starters. With a rookie TE in the top half of the league and a top rb running it, woukd that not indicate his surrounding talent is not that bad afterall? His blindside is also getting elite protection which very few get to have. I am not saying these WRs are as good as it sounds, just going off the metrics you presented here in your post.

I highly doubt Ed wanted this to be yet another Daniel Jones topic, so I respectfully will leave it at this after this post. Jones can be discussed in the other topics.

[Jclayton92]

Highlighted, Pass, Run, Fumble and Total Offense. The biggest surprises for me are Dalton and Brissett and Mac Jones.

Thoughts and observations?

Brissett is playing out if his mind, if I remember correctly he did that with the Colts as well one year when luck was hurt. Good guy just bad teams typically.

Agree on Mac but I think he missed the 1st almost half of the season. I actually liked their backup more than Mac in Zapppe.

Also us being 18th in pblk is solid. I think we were 19th in 2020 so almost even to that line. I think Brederson at LG full time with gates at center full time would knock us up a few more pegs.

[MightyGiants]

I did a little calculating to see how much impact a top receiving target can have on a QB.  So I took the top ten QB and looked to see if they have a top 10 target among WRs, TEs and RBs

1 Tua  ---- 1 WR Tyreek Hill

2 Mahommes ---- 1 TE 1 Travis Kelce

3 Burrow ----  Doesn't have a top 10 but does have Jamar Chase 14 and Tee Higgins 16

4 Dalton (Saints) ----  10 WR Chris Olave

5 Hurts ----  8 WR A.J. Brown, 4 TE Dallas Goedert

6 Allen ---  3 WR Stefon Diggs, 8 RB Nyheim Hines, 9 RB James Cook

7 Geno Smith ---  No top 10 but WR 14 D.K. Metcalf and 19 WR Tyler Lockett and 14 TE Noah Fant and 16 TE Will Dissly

8 Tom Brady----  10 RB Leonard Fournette (Tom is perhaps the biggest outlier as the rest of his cast is weak)

9 Brissett ----  2 TE David Njoku and just missed the cut 11 WR Amari Cooper

10 Rodgers ---- has no top ten the best he has is 22 WR Randall Cobb and 12 RB Aaron Jones (the other outlier)

[True Blue]

I did a little calculating to see how much impact a top receiving target can have on a QB.  So I took the top ten QB and looked to see if they have a top 10 target among WRs, TEs and RBs

1 Tua  ---- 1 WR Tyreek Hill

2 Mahommes ---- 1 TE 1 Travis Kelce

3 Burrow ----  Doesn't have a top 10 but does have Jamar Chase 14 and Tee Higgins 16

4 Dalton (Saints) ----  10 WR Chris Olave

5 Hurts ----  8 WR A.J. Brown, 3 TE Pat Freiermuth

6 Allen ---  3 WR Stefon Diggs, 8 RB Nyheim Hines, 9 RB James Cook

7 Geno Smith ---  No top 10 but WR 14 D.K. Metcalf and 19 WR Tyler Lockett and 14 TE Noah Fant and 16 TE Will Dissly

8 Tom Brady----  10 RB Leonard Fournette (Tom is perhaps the biggest outlier as the rest of his cast is weak)

9 Brissett ----  2 TE David Njoku and just missed the cut 11 WR Amari Cooper

10 Rodgers ---- has no top ten the best he has is 22 WR Randall Cobb and 12 RB Aaron Jones (the other outlier)

Pat Friermuth is a Steeler