Vacchiano says maybe 40Mil for Jones

[kartanoman]

Picking out an outlier to prove a general point is a really poor way of arguing.  Just sayin'.

I have to agree. John Lynch has his own QB dilemma to deal with, a high draft pick who has disappointed, and a Mr. Irrelevant who bailed his butt out this past season. Throw in the Jimmy G saga and you have the trifecta. Lynch would be one of the last guys I'd look to for QB insight.

We can debate the minutia of Jones' numbers, or pick out and critique certain plays, during the season, where he didn't make a play, and we may or may not have the coaches' insights to determine if it was on Jones or some other element on the offense.

What I generally look to is the relationship between head coach and QB, and the synergy in their working relationship. On the merit of that, alone, I think Daboll enjoys working with Jones and has confidence in him to lead his offense. All you have to do is look at a Cardinals game, this past season, and see Kliff Kingsbury and Kyler Murray together to demonstrate a non-synergistic working relationship. One is in pure contrast to the other. My point is, if Daboll told Schoen that Jones is his guy, they're going to get a deal done. What the numbers look like remains the only unknown at this point.

Peace!

[Ed Vette]

You guys have to stop talking one figure numbers. It has to be a multi year deal with a bonus, guaranteed money and backloaded to have an escape in at least the fourth year. Year one should be coming in at less than 25mm. Better yet around 18-20mm.

[BluesCruz]

25 would be a team discount. Don't think that based on what's happened so far (non-pick up of option, not putting him in a good position to succeed etc) that will be granted.

30 would be "fair".

35 is already pushing it.

40 is a clear no go.

40 is the going rate
I wish there were a means the Giants could use to gauge what others will pay for him
they dont
they should not get in a bidding war, he may be gone
Error to the plus side, guarantee it for 2 yrs on a 4 yr deal and move on to the other needs

[True Blue]

40 is the going rate
I wish there were a means the Giants could use to gauge what others will pay for him
they dont
they should not get in a bidding war, he may be gone
Error to the plus side, guarantee it for 2 yrs on a 4 yr deal and move on to the other needs

$40M is not the going rate. He is not Allen, Mahomes and those guys.

I can see $35M in this argument, but not $40M

Unless they tag him, they can't prevent a bidding war regardless of the amount, if there is one he can go wherever. We'll be just fine.

[Jclayton92]

Ryan Tannehill
Contract Value: $118,000,000 ($29,500,000 APY)
Contract Ranking: 14/102 at QB
Fully Guaranteed Money: $62,000,000

Derek Carr
Contract Value: $121,422,481 ($40,474,160 APY)
Contract Ranking: 7/102 at QB
Fully Guaranteed Money: $24,900,000

Jimmy G
4 yrs, $139,735,404
Avg. Salary: $34,933,851
QB Rank: 11

These are the contracts you should look it for a feel om the number needed to retain Jones at a minimum. Imo Carrs contract is the best because they had an out at any time they wanted with little to no dead cap. But it'll take at minimum one of these contracts.

Do you think Jones is better than Carr, Jimmy, or Tannehill? He's never had sustained success and yet he'll be making more than them when two of them maybe all 3 will be FA.

Numbers per sportrac and over the cap

[True Blue]

Ryan Tannehill
Contract Value: $118,000,000 ($29,500,000 APY)
Contract Ranking: 14/102 at QB
Fully Guaranteed Money: $62,000,000

Derek Carr
Contract Value: $121,422,481 ($40,474,160 APY)
Contract Ranking: 7/102 at QB
Fully Guaranteed Money: $24,900,000

Jimmy G
4 yrs, $139,735,404
Avg. Salary: $34,933,851
QB Rank: 11

These are the contracts you should look it for a feel om the number needed to retain Jones at a minimum. Imo Carrs contract is the best because they had an out at any time they wanted with little to no dead cap. But it'll take at minimum one of these contracts.

Do you think Jones is better than Carr, Jimmy, or Tannehill? He's never had sustained success and yet he'll be making more than them when two of them maybe all 3 will be FA.

Numbers per sportrac and over the cap

All 3 are better QBs

The Carr and especially Tannehill contracts, also made it harder to build their teams around them. If they were able to retain AJ Brown they're probably a playoff team instead of Jacksonville

[MightyGiants]

All 3 are better QBs

The Carr and especially Tannehill contracts, also made it harder to build their teams around them. If they were able to retain AJ Brown they're probably a playoff team instead of Jacksonville

I am not sure what you are using to determine that all three are better.  Here are three metrics I like to use

QBR

Jones (6)
Carr (13)
Jimmy G (16)
Ryan T (24)

QB Rating

Jimmy G (3)
Ryan T (11)
Jones (13)
Carr (24)

PFF Grade (20% snaps)

Jones (17)
Ryan T (19)
Jimmy G (22)
Carr (27)

[B1GBLUE]

Just like gas - the time of "high" prices at $2.50 are long gone. 

Inflation plays a big factor in current market value/price in any commodity and the same goes for QB's starting salary.  The cap for 2026 is projected at 308M which is why at 30M AAV for a good QB is actually a "bargain".

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

very good point. everyone is worried about jones cap hit. by the time that third year hits.. it'll probably be damn near 260m.

[Jclayton92]

I am not sure what you are using to determine that all three are better.  Here are three metrics I like to use

QBR

Jones (6)
Carr (13)
Jimmy G (16)
Ryan T (24)

QB Rating

Jimmy G (3)
Ryan T (11)
Jones (13)
Carr (24)

PFF Grade (20% snaps)

Jones (17)
Ryan T (19)
Jimmy G (22)
Carr (27)

That's one season though, Carr has actually put up top 10 numbers in yards and even this season had 300 more yards and almost 10 more passing Tds. In a vacuum of one season maybe Jones played better this year but Jimmy only played 11 games and still had 2,437 16Tds 4 Int 103.0 rating in 5 less games making 7 million.

Jones best or only season as a decent QB doesn't even touch these other guys sustained success or best seasons. 1 year of decent production doesn't make him better than these guys with better single years and multiple years of sustained success it's not even close and I think all 3 are better. I think if you polled the national media or just non Giants fans the list would be

Carr
Jimmy
Tannehill
Jones

Maybe an argument for Jones going forward over Tannehill because of the Age maybe.

[sxdxca38]

Yeah, I thought Mighty brought a very balanced approach in showing that this past year DJ is as good or in fact better than some of those other QB's in certain categories.

Now granted if you are basing it off of the past ten-year period, well then no, Carr, Tannehill, and Jimmy G so far have had the better career.

However, since we are not talking about the past, but we are talking about the future and beyond.

We need to keep in mind that DJ is only 25 years old and an ascending player, while Tannehill is 34 and on the back nine of his career, and Carr and Jimmy G are both 31 respectably.

So, to add to Mighty's fine points, in what other categories did DJ lead in 2022?

Here are two more.

Comp %

DJ        67.2%
Carr      60.8%
Tannehill 65.2%
Jimmy G   67.2%

And Interceptions

DJ 5
Carr 14
Tannehill 6
Jimmy G 6
 

DJ threw the ball only 30 times less than Carr, but had 9 fewer interceptions.

He threw the ball 150 more times than Tannehill, and still had one less interception than him (5).

And he threw the ball 170 more times than Jimmy G, but only had one more interception than him (5).

He had a solid year.

[sxdxca38]

Not only do we have Eli Manning and Phil Simms wanting DJ back and getting a long term contract, but Tiki Barber just said - "If Daniel Jones continues to keep growing as he has this past year, the New York Giants will have the best QB in the NFC east". "The skies the limit for him."

You can hear it for yourself at the 2:00 minute time mark, as I have provided the link down below.

[katkavage]

Uncle Vinny has been a Giants fan for 50 years. Knows football better than anyone. He tells me Jones will lead the Giants to the Super Bowl. I love Vinny, and Phil and Eli, Tiki a little, but I'm waiting for the one opinion that counts most. The GM. Unless Mara meddles, Schoen will have the one opinion that means anything.

[DaveBrown74]

Not only do we have Eli Manning and Phil Simms wanting DJ back and getting a long term contract, but Tiki Barber just said - "If Daniel Jones continues to keep growing as he has this past year, the New York Giants will have the best QB in the NFC east". "The skies the limit for him."

You can hear it for yourself at the 2:00 minute time mark, as I have provided the link down below.

There still has to be a price threshold though. I assume you wouldn't just sign a blank check and be comfortable with ANY amount for Jones. Would you agree that a limit has to be set somewhere? Or is he so good that there should be no limit, the way that might have been the case with someone like Mahomes?

One thing to keep in mind is that with Jones, even after this year, there still a lot of "if X happens, he could be Y" type statements. Are we ok to throw a ton of money at a speculative situation? Generally, when a QB gets a huge second contract, the team has already seen him play at an elite or near-elite level over the course of a whole season. We have not seen anything like that with Jones yet. So there is a big element of hope with this contract.

[sxdxca38]

There still has to be a price threshold though. I assume you wouldn't just sign a blank check and be comfortable with ANY amount for Jones. Would you agree that a limit has to be set somewhere? Or is he so good that there should be no limit, the way that might have been the case with someone like Mahomes?

One thing to keep in mind is that with Jones, even after this year, there still a lot of "if X happens, he could be Y" type statements. Are we ok to throw a ton of money at a speculative situation? Generally, when a QB gets a huge second contract, the team has already seen him play at an elite or near-elite level over the course of a whole season. We have not seen anything like that with Jones yet. So there is a big element of hope with this contract.

Hi Dave,

Of course, I think you may have seen in some of my previous posts that a contract somewhere in the 30-35 million range is fair.

However at this point I don't think he's worth 40 million a year or more because he hasn't proved he's worth that yet.

Now if he continues to ascend than fine, but as of right now a contract somewhere in the 30 million dollar range is what he is worth imho.

How about you?

[Jclayton92]

Not only do we have Eli Manning and Phil Simms wanting DJ back and getting a long term contract, but Tiki Barber just said - "If Daniel Jones continues to keep growing as he has this past year, the New York Giants will have the best QB in the NFC east". "The skies the limit for him."

You can hear it for yourself at the 2:00 minute time mark, as I have provided the link down below.

Tiki is full of it if he thinks Jones is better than Hurts, he's not. Also hoping that a 4th year Qb takes a jump in his 5th is wishful thinking as I'm not sure it has ever happened before.