Vacchiano says maybe 40Mil for Jones

[DaveBrown74]

Hi Dave,

Of course, I think you may have seen in some of my previous posts that a contract somewhere in the 30-35 million range is fair.

However at this point I don't think he's worth 40 million a year or more because he hasn't proved he's worth that yet.

Now if he continues to ascend than fine, but as of right now a contract somewhere in the 30 million dollar range is what he is worth imho.

How about you?

Same page for me. $40mm would be too much for the reasons you said. $30m is unlikely to happen I'm afraid. Something like $33mm/yr for four years with a third year out I could probably live with. To be honest I'm not feeling overly great about any of it. The guy had maybe three or four genuinely very good games last year. He hasn't proven that he is capable of consistently playing at a high level. This year he proved that he can consistently play at at least a decent level, with some good games mixed in. Locking ourselves up with him for at least three years with a significant cap hit every year when we have never seen him look very good to excellent over the course of a season could come back to haunt us.

[katkavage]

Same page for me. $40mm would be too much for the reasons you said. $30m is unlikely to happen I'm afraid. Something like $33mm/yr for four years with a third year out I could probably live with. To be honest I'm not feeling overly great about any of it. The guy had maybe three or four genuinely very good games last year. He hasn't proven that he is capable of consistently playing at a high level. This year he proved that he can consistently play at at least a decent level, with some good games mixed in. Locking ourselves up with him for at least three years with a significant cap hit every year when we have never seen him look very good to excellent over the course of a season could come back to haunt us.

Not to mention he was very fortunate he was mostly healthy all year considering what he does on the field. Same goes for Barkley. In the NFL at those positions, it's gonna happen.

[Rambo89]

Same page for me. $40mm would be too much for the reasons you said. $30m is unlikely to happen I'm afraid. Something like $33mm/yr for four years with a third year out I could probably live with. To be honest I'm not feeling overly great about any of it. The guy had maybe three or four genuinely very good games last year. He hasn't proven that he is capable of consistently playing at a high level. This year he proved that he can consistently play at at least a decent level, with some good games mixed in. Locking ourselves up with him for at least three years with a significant cap hit every year when we have never seen him look very good to excellent over the course of a season could come back to haunt us.

I'm of the same belief of what he will likely end up getting and that it's not something I'm comfortable with. 

[DaveBrown74]

I'm of the same belief of what he will likely end up getting and that it's not something I'm comfortable with. 

I just hope that if Schoen does give him a contract that it's because he 100% wants him and not for any other reason, such as his boss leaning on him.

[Jclayton92]

Same page for me. $40mm would be too much for the reasons you said. $30m is unlikely to happen I'm afraid. Something like $33mm/yr for four years with a third year out I could probably live with. To be honest I'm not feeling overly great about any of it. The guy had maybe three or four genuinely very good games last year. He hasn't proven that he is capable of consistently playing at a high level. This year he proved that he can consistently play at at least a decent level, with some good games mixed in. Locking ourselves up with him for at least three years with a significant cap hit every year when we have never seen him look very good to excellent over the course of a season could come back to haunt us.

Look at the Cardinals no one wants to coach that franchise now because they are stuck with Murray and Murray has better stats through his first 50 games than Jones like better completion pct, Tds, rating and no one wants kyler Murray.

Yet this fan base has decided one year of ok ball that Jones is the guy bc he's a good dude, and quiet leader... signing him longterm will have the same result that every nonelite QB on a 2nd has had on his franchise maybe the playoffs a couple times but then crippling them until they cut bait... yet knowing thats what has happened every time people still are like yep sign me up for that simply because they don't want to look for a new QB. They'd rather have meh then to start over, content with maybe getting to the playoffs every year but losing instead of taking a step back to take 10 forward.

I'd rather take a step backwards a year or 2 and then go forward 10 steps than to just hang out and be 8-9 every season.

Murray vs Jones stats here
https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-stats-eli-manning-kerry-collins-phil-simms-fran-tarkenton

[DaveBrown74]

Look at the Cardinals no one wants to coach that franchise now because they are stuck with Murray and Murray has better stats through his first 50 games than Jones like better completion pct, Tds, rating and no one wants kyler Murray.

Yet this fan base has decided one year of ok ball that Jones is the guy bc he's a good dude, and quiet leader... signing him longterm will have the same result that every nonelite QB on a 2nd has had on his franchise maybe the playoffs a couple times but then crippling them until they cut bait... yet knowing thats what has happened every time people still are like yep sign me up for that simply because they don't want to look for a new QB. They'd rather have meh then to start over, content with maybe getting to the playoffs every year but losing instead of taking a step back to take 10 forward.

I'd rather take a step backwards a year or 2 and then go forward 10 steps than to just hang out and be 8-9 every season.

Murray vs Jones stats here
https://www.giants.com/news/daniel-jones-stats-eli-manning-kerry-collins-phil-simms-fran-tarkenton

Murray is another good cautionary tale of what overpaying for a non-elite QB can do to your franchise.

[Fletch]

Hi,

This was Eli Manning's first playoff game stats in 2005 against the Panthers.

10/18 113 Yards   0 TD 3 Int 35.0   RTG

The Giants scored zero points in that game.

Here is DJ's stats in his first playoff game on the road against the Vikings.

24/35 301 Yards   2 TD 0 Int 114.1 RTG

The Giants scored 31 points and won the game.

After Eli Manning and the Giants won a Superbowl in 2007, here are his stats against the Eagles playoff game in 2008.

15/29 169 Yards   0 TD 2 Int 40.7 RTG

The Giants scored 11 points.

Eli was 28 years old in that game, DJ is still only 25.

I like both QB's, but as you can see Eli needed time to grow, so I think you can see why with the progress DJ has made a new 3–4-year contract is not so unreasonable.

But if you feel he's not worth the money, and not that good of a QB, well then that is your call.

Why do you get to cherry pick the games? You are just glossing over the 2007 playoff run? That was Eli's 4th year in the league. How much time do you need? And how are you fillng holes on this roster paying a Daniel Jones 30-40 million dollars . There is nothing , nothing to show he can compete at the Mahomes/ Burrow / Josh All / Hurts leverl. NOTHING!!! He's had time. He showed you what he is and its not good enough. It certianly not better than beating a Tom Brady in his prime at the show. So obvious everyone i just dug in on this guy. What about that last game? He totally sucked against a good team. Eli played against Dallas the Patriots the Packers. Allthese great teams. Face facts the Vikings weren't that good. Aainst any kind of good defense or if he is not playing like the Colts ; he can't play at a high level.

[Nyfg83]

Tiki is full of it if he thinks Jones is better than Hurts, he's not. Also hoping that a 4th year Qb takes a jump in his 5th is wishful thinking as I'm not sure it has ever happened before.

Out of curiosity, how do you think DJ would have looked playing for them?


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[True Blue]

Out of curiosity, how do you think DJ would have looked playing for them?


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The Eagles? They wouldn't be playing tonight with him

[Trench]

Jones isn't in the same class as Hurts

[True Blue]

Jones isn't in the same class as Hurts

This game would not be tied at 35 with him playing in either of these teams

[sxdxca38]

Why do you get to cherry pick the games? You are just glossing over the 2007 playoff run? That was Eli's 4th year in the league. How much time do you need? And how are you fillng holes on this roster paying a Daniel Jones 30-40 million dollars . There is nothing , nothing to show he can compete at the Mahomes/ Burrow / Josh All / Hurts leverl. NOTHING!!! He's had time. He showed you what he is and its not good enough. It certianly not better than beating a Tom Brady in his prime at the show. So obvious everyone i just dug in on this guy. What about that last game? He totally sucked against a good team. Eli played against Dallas the Patriots the Packers. Allthese great teams. Face facts the Vikings weren't that good. Aainst any kind of good defense or if he is not playing like the Colts ; he can't play at a high level.

Sir maybe you missed it, but I also said this in my previous post, and I quote "After Eli Manning and the Giants won a Superbowl in 2007, here are his stats against the Eagles playoff game in 2008".

I would encourage you to fully process what I say before responding.

Secondly, if you are going to come out and attack me, it is best to speak fluent English.

When you use words like Aainst, certianly, and leverl in your comments to me, it doesn't bring a lot of credibility to your position.

Finally, I would encourage you to read the guidelines for posting on this site, they say the following "This isn't a debate board. If you disagree with someone's opinion you can respectfully introduce your take on the subject but never put down or attack the other Member. Good information and content is backed up by facts but if it's your opinion, you should state so. Everyone is a representative of this site. We do not disrespect the players, coaches or the organization."

Also, it says this "Neither is overstating a point in numerous posts and threads or personal attacks and inappropriate remarks to other members."

So, I would encourage you to tone it down with your comments towards me, especially the "So obvious everyone i just dug in on this guy".

@MightyGiants and @T200 I normally wouldn't call you both here, but I just wanted you to be aware of this man's comments towards me. Because this is supposed to be a message board for civil and reasonable discussion, and not a place to be disrespectful towards someone else's opinion. If you could have Fletch tone it down, that would be much appreciated, thank you.

[Rambo89]

Jones isn't in the same class as Hurts

While I think Hurts is better I don't think the gap is that big between the two in terms of ability.

[GordonGekko80]

While I think Hurts is better I don't think the gap is that big between the two in terms of ability.

I actually agree.

I think Hurts is just a good fit for the system the Eagles run. More specifically;

1. The Eagles have a very well balanced offense - which allows to run and throw the ball pretty evenly
2. The above also means that the QB is not forced to throw the ball all the time, taking pressure off of him
3. The Eagles O-Line protects the running and passing game very well
4. The Eagles WR get open in most of the cases, making the QB's life a lot easier

Now, put Jones in the same context and then we'll see.

Hurts is my view not a lot better than Jones (if at all).

[katkavage]

I actually agree.

I think Hurts is just a good fit for the system the Eagles run. More specifically;

1. The Eagles have a very well balanced offense - which allows to run and throw the ball pretty evenly
2. The above also means that the QB is not forced to throw the ball all the time, taking pressure off of him
3. The Eagles O-Line protects the running and passing game very well
4. The Eagles WR get open in most of the cases, making the QB's life a lot easier

Now, put Jones in the same context and then we'll see.

Hurts is my view not a lot better than Jones (if at all).

Hurts will be going into his fourth year. Jones his fifth. Hurts has improved each year to now he is one of the top, if not the best QB in the NFC. Jones is lagging behind. And yes, you can dig up all the old tired excuses, but I'd take Hurts over Jones in a heartbeat. Let's be real here.