Giants have met with Saquan's reps but not DJ's

[MightyGiants]

https://twitter.com/charlottecrrll/status/1620832467845517312

https://twitter.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1620832457657552898


My best guess is the Giants want to get both guys back.  They want to lock in Barkley so the tag is available as leverage in the Jones' negotiations.

[Rambo89]

IDK I feel like they went to Barkley first because they are planning on tagging Jones and wanted to get a sense of the price tag for Barkley

[MightyGiants]

IDK I feel like they went to Barkley first because they are planning on tagging Jones and wanted to get a sense of the price tag for Barkley

From what I have seen over the years, the franchise tag (unless it's relatively cheap) is usually a team's last resort.  I don't recall a team leading with the franchise tag when it came to their QB.

If after a year, the Giants don't think that Daniel Jones is their franchise QB, why waste over $32 million retaining him for another season?

[Rambo89]

From what I have seen over the years, the franchise tag (unless it's relatively cheap) is usually a team's last resort.  I don't recall a team leading with the franchise tag when it came to their QB.

If after a year, the Giants don't think that Daniel Jones is their franchise QB, why waste over $32 million retaining him for another season?

Because it allows them to compete in 2023 building the rest of the roster while leaving them the flexibility of either signing him long term or moving on after 2023 depending upon how he performs.  That is just me.  I have no idea what exactly Schoen and the regime's thinking is.

[MightyGiants]

Because it allows them to compete in 2023 building the rest of the roster while leaving them the flexibility of either signing him long term or moving on after 2023 depending upon how he performs.  That is just me.  I have no idea what exactly Schoen and the regime's thinking is.

Salary cap surplus can be carried over from season to season so that cap-hit has potential ramifications beyond 2023.  Plus that $32 million pretty much kills the 2023 cap surplus, so how does the team continue to build?  If the Giants can't compete without spending $32 million on Jones, isn't that an indication that Jones is a franchise QB?

[kingm56]

Salary cap surplus can be carried over from season to season so that cap-hit has potential ramifications beyond 2023.  Plus that $32 million pretty much kills the 2023 cap surplus, so how does the team continue to build?  If the Giants can't compete without spending $32 million on Jones, isn't that an indication that Jones is a franchise QB?

Rich, I hate answering a questions with a question, but I hope you'll indulge me. Once the Giants sign Barkly and their rookie class (11 picks), they're likely to have ~$20M to acquire FAs. Do you believe that's enough capital to truly field a roster that can compete with Phili, Cinci, Buff, KC or even Dal?  If the answer is no, a Tag could make sense as it will afford the Giants the flexibility to structurally change their team, if needed.  Schonen is a younger GM and I suspect he's keenly aware of the makeup of teams competitive to win SBs; unlike DG, he's not burden by traditional thinking.  Thus, I doubt he's going to lock himself into a structure that eliminates any flexibility to become a Tier-1 team.  To that end, I believe some fans have more faith in DJ than the Giants GM and/or HC.  If a deal (e.g. 2 year) you described in another thread cannot be reached, it would not surprise me if they let DJ walk, take a step-back this year, and draft their guy in '24.  From an optics perspective, they need to paint the picture they wanted DJ back, but could not afford him at this asking price.  In short, I do not foresee a long-term, $37M/yr with $100M+ guarantee type-deal. IMO, there are three viable options: franchise/transition tag, contract the Giants could move on from in 2-years, or letting DJ hit the open-market. 

[MightyGiants]

Rich, I hate answering a questions with a question, but I hope you'll indulge me. Once the Giants sign Barkly and their rookie class (11 picks), they're likely to have ~$20M to acquire FAs. Do you believe that's enough capital to truly field a roster that can compete with Phili, Cinci, Buff, KC or even Dal?  If the answer is no, a Tag could make sense as it will afford the Giants the flexibility to structurally change their team, if needed.  Schonen is a younger GM and I suspect he's keenly aware of the makeup of teams competitive to win SBs.  I doubt he's going to lock himself into a structure that eliminates any flexibility to become a Tier-1 team.  To that end, I believe some fans have more faith in DJ than the Giants GM and/or HC.  If a deal (e.g. 2 year) you described in another thread cannot be reached, it would not surprise me if they let DJ walk, take a step-back this year, and draft their guy in '24.  From an optics perspective, they need to paint the picture they wanted DJ back, but could not afford him at this asking price.  In short, I do not foresee a long-term, $37M/yr with $100M+ guarantee type-deal. IMO, there are three viable options: franchise/transition tag, contract the Giants could move on from in 2-years, or letting DJ hit the open-market. 

Matt,

The QB tag is $32 million, and you said after they sign Barkley and the rookie class they will have $20 million in cap space.  So where does the other $12 million come from?

For me, the Giants coaching staff and GM got to see what they have in Daniel Jones.  Now it's time to fish or cut bait.  Franchising Jones with the intention of moving on makes zero sense because you essentially throw away $32 million in precious cap dollars.

Now from a cap management point of view, letting DJ walk makes some sense.  However, as you said, this team is talent deficient. Say @Jclayton92 is right, and the big QB class is next year (I have heard that said many times, and it hasn't come true, so I think this approach comes with risk).  To ensure this team is going to be in a position to draft a QB in 2024, they are likely going to have to trade away this year's first-round pick (assuming a trade is available) and possibly more.  The only way the Giants can assure themselves a chance at a QB they want next season is to have two first-round picks in hand.

So once you trade away this year's first-rounder, how much will the team be able to build without a pick one and surplus picks all being late day three picks?  I mean, yeah, you will have more cap space to work with, but how many teams build successfully by signing pricy outside UFAs?  Plus, drafting QBs is far from a slam dunk.

Now I am not saying it will be easy for Schoen to build if the Giants sign Jones (as much expect) for between $33 million and $40 million, but I am not seeing the alternatives being any easier.

[AZGiantFan]

My hope is that Schoen's "we want DJ back" is just setting the stage for mollifying fans for when they low-ball him and he signs elsewhere.  "We wanted him back, but it just didn't work out".

[MightyGiants]

My hope is that Schoen's "we want DJ back" is just setting the stage for mollifying fans for when they low-ball him and he signs elsewhere.  "We wanted him back, but it just didn't work out".

Unlike our last GM, has anything that Schoen said or done suggested that he is anything less than a straight shooter?   I don't think Schoen is a "we didn't sign him to trade him" type of GM.

[Rambo89]

My hope is that Schoen's "we want DJ back" is just setting the stage for mollifying fans for when they low-ball him and he signs elsewhere.  "We wanted him back, but it just didn't work out".

I'm not sure they will low ball Jones but in listening to his press conference last week it was clear to me that they do have a limit to what they are willing to pay him.

[MightyGiants]

I'm not sure they will low ball Jones but in listening to his press conference last week it was clear to me that they do have a limit to what they are willing to pay him.

I can't help but remember what the owners of the team said about Jones

"To me, it was the poise," Mara said. "That building is as loud as can be, and you look at him, and he's in complete control of the offense. It gave me a lot of confidence that I don't care how many times they score, we're gonna score more."

I asked Mara when it became a finality to him that Daniel Jones would be his Quarterback of the Future.

"It was a while ago I think ... he just keeps getting better and better every week," Mara said.

Mara laughed when it was suggested that he got the succession plan for Eli right (yes, with former GM Dave Gettleman's help) and said: "Hey I can't screw up everything, I gotta get something right."

Kid brother Chris Mara: "We got somebody going forward."

Asked what he thought of his quarterback, Steve Tisch smiled and said: "The world."

I am thinking it will be tough for Schoe to sell the owners on letting their franchise QB that got the team their first playoff win in a decade walk out the door with nothing to show for their troubles other than a possible comp pick.

[Jclayton92]

My hope is that Schoen's "we want DJ back" is just setting the stage for mollifying fans for when they low-ball him and he signs elsewhere.  "We wanted him back, but it just didn't work out".

That's exactly what I think it is. They talked to barkleys agents at the deadline not Jones now they are talking to Barkley again. They might think they can replicate Jones production and just signing Barkley short term as a safety valve in the event they have a free agent or rookie.

[Jclayton92]

Matt,

The QB tag is $32 million, and you said after they sign Barkley and the rookie class they will have $20 million in cap space.  So where does the other $12 million come from?

For me, the Giants coaching staff and GM got to see what they have in Daniel Jones.  Now it's time to fish or cut bait.  Franchising Jones with the intention of moving on makes zero sense because you essentially throw away $32 million in precious cap dollars.

Now from a cap management point of view, letting DJ walk makes some sense.  However, as you said, this team is talent deficient. Say @Jclayton92 is right, and the big QB class is next year (I have heard that said many times, and it hasn't come true, so I think this approach comes with risk).  To ensure this team is going to be in a position to draft a QB in 2024, they are likely going to have to trade away this year's first-round pick (assuming a trade is available) and possibly more.  The only way the Giants can assure themselves a chance at a QB they want next season is to have two first-round picks in hand.

So once you trade away this year's first-rounder, how much will the team be able to build without a pick one and surplus picks all being late day three picks?  I mean, yeah, you will have more cap space to work with, but how many teams build successfully by signing pricy outside UFAs?  Plus, drafting QBs is far from a slam dunk.

Now I am not saying it will be easy for Schoen to build if the Giants sign Jones (as much expect) for between $33 million and $40 million, but I am not seeing the alternatives being any easier.

next year there will be a huge surplus of Qbs, I'm not going to say they are all perfect but tons of guys came back like Bo Nix, Micheal Penix, KJ Jefferson, then add in next year's actual class the Texas, Michigan, LSU, Ole Miss Qbs and Caleb Williams not to mention even more including the guy I think is a generational talent in Drake Maye and it's stacked.

[Rambo89]

I can't help but remember what the owners of the team said about Jones
 


I am thinking it will be tough for Schoe to sell the owners on letting their franchise QB that got the team their first playoff win in a decade walk out the door with nothing to show for their troubles other than a possible comp pick.

This is where John Mara, his brother and the other cronies who drove the franchise into the ground the prior decade need to take a step back and let this new regime do what they feel is best.

[True Blue]

This is where John Mara, his brother and the other cronies who drove the franchise into the ground the prior decade need to take a step back and let this new regime do what they feel is best.

I actually don't see it as them meddling

What else are they gonna say? That they hate him and want him gone? They aren't gonna say any different about anyone on the roster.