What astounds me about this draft

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Maybe I astound easily, but I'm still basking in the afterglow of this draft

The Giants were NOT in a good position. They were drafting at the backend of a very "top-heavy" draft in which there was a sharp fall off after the top 15 players, then an even bigger drop off in the next tier of players in the 16 - 70 area of rankings. Of course, like every year, fans like myself delve into the tons of players coming into the draft and by draft day, have some rather obscure hopes for certain players who aren't the obvious top players at their positions. And to top it off, start assuming typical 4th-7th round type players should be in the top 75 when any other year they wouldn't be in the top 200 players. So how does one get three of those top 75 players when drafting at the backend of the order and a RB that should go in the top 3 rounds? Good friggin question. But Schoen somehow pulled off the impossible

CB Banks (top 20 overall ranking and sure first round pick)
C Michael-Shmitz (top 30-50 overall ranking and no.1 center in the draft...some listing him as first rounder)
WR Hyatt (top 20-30 overall ranking and expected first rounder and at worst, an early second rounder)
RB Gray (many had him in the top 100 overall ranking (one incicentally had him ranked 28th overall) and unanimously thought to be a third round pick)
That's incredible,    no matter how anyone looks at it and tries to punch holes in it

Again, we got top shelf players dealing with a bad hand and from a horrible position in a bad draft order in a draft that was exceedingly top-heavy, according to virtually every analyst. My admiration just keeps growing for how Schoen is running the show, and his decisions just keep getting more and more exemplary with each week since he's been here

[Bob In PA]

Maybe I astound easily, but I'm still basking in the afterglow of this draft

The Giants were NOT in a good position. They were drafting at the backend of a very "top-heavy" draft in which there was a sharp fall off after the top 15 players, then an even bigger drop off in the next tier of players in the 16 - 70 area of rankings. Of course, like every year, fans like myself delve into the tons of players coming into the draft and by draft day, have some rather obscure hopes for certain players who aren't the obvious top players at their positions. And to top it off, start assuming typical 4th-7th round type players should be in the top 75 when any other year they wouldn't be in the top 200 players. So how does one get three of those top 75 players when drafting at the backend of the order and a RB that should go in the top 3 rounds? Good friggin question. But Schoen somehow pulled off the impossible

CB Banks (top 20 overall ranking and sure first round pick)
C Michael-Shmitz (top 30-50 overall ranking and no.1 center in the draft...some listing him as first rounder)
WR Hyatt (top 20-30 overall ranking and expected first rounder and at worst, an early second rounder)
RB Gray (many had him in the top 100 overall ranking (one incicentally had him ranked 28th overall) and unanimously thought to be a third round pick)
That's incredible,    no matter how anyone looks at it and tries to punch holes in it

Again, we got top shelf players dealing with a bad hand and from a horrible position in a bad draft order in a draft that was exceedingly top-heavy, according to virtually every analyst. My admiration just keeps growing for how Schoen is running the show, and his decisions just keep getting more and more exemplary with each week since he's been here

Jolly: We talked about Giants' perennial bad luck pre-draft. IMO the football gods gave us a reprieve this year.

The other way of looking at it is that you "make" your own luck simply by taking advantage of opportunities.

The question is whether you'll get any opportunities, and the Giants did (at least twice, when they traded up).

Bob

[PSUBeirut]

The way the talent in this draft stacked up also happened to stack up perfectly with our needs.  It was actually long projected that we would have a really good CB to select from at 25 and then a good center would be available in round 2 (not necessarily the best projected center...but a good option).  The real skill came in when Hyatt was dropping and we made the move to grab him. 

So, yeah- like most good things that happen - it required a healthy balance of luck + preparation + skill. 

[Philosophers]

If you are good at evaluating talent, you have to trust your skills and when a player you like is available, you have to go after him.  JS has had a full offseason to analyze prospects and come up with a short list of "hot" prospects he wanted.  Hopefully he made the right selections.  I love how he moved around in the draft.  He did not mortgage the future.  JS is a damn smart humble person.  We are in good hands.

[MightyGiants]

Like @Bob In PA, I think the Giants made their own luck. They went into the offseason with 11 picks.  They felt the roster was better than last year's, and they decided they didn't want to have more than 8 picks.  They also didn't want to spend a day one or two picks from next year's draft (Much of this is via Paul Dotino).   

So they used their bevy of day three picks not to play make more lottery picks but rather to maximize the value of their day one and two picks.

Day one-  they saw all the top players on their board go, save for one.  They knew the Jags (the team picking ahead of them) didn't need a CB and were more than willing to trade down.  So Schoen wisely moved up a spot to ensure they didn't lose out on the last top player at a position of need.

When C Joe Tippman came off the board in round two, Schoen examined the teams between that pick and where the Giants picked.  He didn't see any team that needed a center among them.  So Schoen took a calculated risk and saved draft capital and waited for JMS to come to him.

Day three, he used the draft capital he saved to move up and grab the best of the upper tier WRs.

[Ed Vette]

Whenever players drop it means that 32 teams didn't have them graded where the so called experts slotted them. In some cases it wasn't a fit because of team need but that's not the case 32 times over. Their value is where they were picked. It will take a few years to evaluate if they produce a higher value.

Not to burst any bubbles but to set reasonable expectations. Hyatt should be judged as a third round pick.

[londonblue]

Ed, I get your logic and whilst I agree to a point, I do not think it fully holds.

Teams rank players in tiers, effectively creating 32 clusters and 32 discontinuously and differentially segmented data sets rather than a single continuous draft data set.

It is therefore possible that all 32 teams could have player A ranked in eg their third tier with a number of others but 31 teams pass on him because they all had somebody left when they drafted who was: 1. Ranked in a higher tier on their Board or 2. A greater positional need and/or 3. At a position with a bigger drop off to the next guy up.

Outside the 15-20 'true first round' guys past data analysis from SIS suggests two standard deviations for players ranked 20-100 to be ~ +/-25 draft places. Based on decades working with complex data sets this feels well within normal variability for the draft IMO.

It is inherently an inexact science. Every year players slip beyond their probability tier until they are so clearly out of place/top ranked someone trades up/takes them. This is the point where your logic holds. There is an effective floor for most players, but that can be well below their expected projection.

"Anomalies" are pretty much a designed in feature of the draft being 32 linked heterogeneous processes rather than a single, homogeneous process.

[Ed Vette]

Ed, I get your logic and whilst I agree to a point, I do not think it fully holds.

Teams rank players in tiers, effectively creating 32 clusters and 32 discontinuously and differentially segmented data sets rather than a single continuous draft data set.

It is therefore possible that all 32 teams could have player A ranked in eg their third tier with a number of others but 31 teams pass on him because they all had somebody left when they drafted who was: 1. Ranked in a higher tier on their Board or 2. A greater positional need and/or 3. At a position with a bigger drop off to the next guy up.

Outside the 15-20 'true first round' guys past data analysis from SIS suggests two standard deviations for players ranked 20-100 to be ~ +/-25 draft places. Based on decades working with complex data sets this feels well within normal variability for the draft IMO.

It is inherently an inexact science. Every year players slip beyond their probability tier until they are so clearly out of place/top ranked someone trades up/takes them. This is the point where your logic holds. There is an effective floor for most players, but that can be well below their expected projection.

"Anomalies" are pretty much a designed in feature of the draft being 32 linked heterogeneous processes rather than a single, homogeneous process.

The expected projection is based on draftnics and pundits who read each others and become group think, teams in some cases have a different evaluation of players. Some teams do more extensive evaluation than other, especially after the first two rounds. They may have reservations about a player whose talent level is high but worth the gamble a round later.

Malik Willis was a projected first round or high second round pick by the experts. He was drafted 86. Anthony Richardson even after the combine was never expected to be drafted at 4, but a team valued him there and was unwilling to take a risk of him dropping. The Giants had a higher need at WR and Hyatt has a higher ceiling and overall metrics than Schmitty. Some experts had Schmitty as a first round pick. Some had Hyatt as a first round pick. Other Receiver were taken before Hyatt. The Giants chose to take the best Center available in the draft as their safer choice. It was an NFL perspective that Richardson could be coached into better mechanics than Hyatt into a full route tree and clean routes of separation.

I understand your point but I'm talking outstanding exceptions. In the case of Indy, it's a decision that will either make them perennial contenders or set them back 2-4 years.