Barkley Talks In Limbo

[Ed Vette]

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/05/latest-on-giants-saquon-barkley-negotiations

[MightyGiants]

I think Barkley picked an inexperienced agent in Kim Miale.  I think she has done a very poor job assessing the RB market and, as a result, has screwed up negotiations with the Giants.  Now we are in a situation where the agent is hoping to save face, AND Barkley has to come to terms with his real value (not the unrealistic expectations fed to him by Kim).

When this all started, I wasn't too worried; I figured things would work themselves out.   Now I am concerned that we could see a disgruntled Barkley hold out for most training camp. 

That all said, we have not seen publicly expressed acrimony, and I look at how DJ's contract negotiations went.   We heard many reports about the two sides being far apart until they weren't.  Hopefully, that is the MO of the new regime, and one day we will wake up to the news that Barkley has signed a contract and everyone is happy.

[Ed Vette]

I don't think there's any way he holds out the season like Bell did years ago. As the author said, it's got to be mainly about guaranteed money. What would he be looking for? The number likely starts at 22MM. Would he be looking for a 4 year, with a signing bonus of $15mm and $32mm in practical guaranteed money with an injury clause for the first three years?

[Rosehill Jimmy]

I think Barkley picked an inexperienced agent in Kim Miale.  I think she has done a very poor job assessing the RB market and, as a result, has screwed up negotiations with the Giants.  Now we are in a situation where the agent is hoping to save face, AND Barkley has to come to terms with his real value (not the unrealistic expectations fed to him by Kim).

When this all started, I wasn't too worried; I figured things would work themselves out.   Now I am concerned that we could see a disgruntled Barkley hold out for most training camp. 

That all said, we have not seen publicly expressed acrimony, and I look at how DJ's contract negotiations went.   We heard many reports about the two sides being far apart until they weren't.  Hopefully, that is the MO of the new regime, and one day we will wake up to the news that Barkley has signed a contract and everyone is happy.

Miale has been SB's agent since he entered the league and she represents a number of other players as well. She is employed by RocNation and has been in the business 10+ years. Have they misread the market?  Probably.  But situations like this happen often and I wouldn't be so quick to chalk it up to inexperience

[MightyGiants]

Miale has been SB's agent since he entered the league and she represents a number of other players as well. She is employed by RocNation and has been in the business 10+ years. Have they misread the market?  Probably.  But situations like this happen often and I wouldn't be so quick to chalk it up to inexperience

Jimmy,

I will acknowledge you make valid points with 10 years in the business and having a few other NFL clients.  On the other hand, the weak market for RBs was something I think everyone on our forum could see coming.   Between the league devaluing the position and the bumper crop of RBs in the 2023 draft, who didn't see a tough time for veterans looking for a new deal?

For Kim to fail to recognize the situation for veteran RBs boarders on agent malpractice, in my opinion.  Hell, I can remember saying that Barkley should take the money and run when it was reported that NYG made an offer to him at the bye.  If I, a non-agent could recognize the situation, how on earth did Kim fail to?

[Painter]

I don't think there's any way he holds out the season like Bell did years ago. As the author said, it's got to be mainly about guaranteed money. What would he be looking for? The number likely starts at 22MM. Would he be looking for a 4 year, with a signing bonus of $15mm and $32mm in practical guaranteed money with an injury clause for the first three years?

It almost certainly about guaranteed money. Let's not forget that playing under the tag gives Barkley a 100% guarantee of $10 million this year and at least another 12 million next year. That would be a hefty $22+ million fully guaranteed which gives him and his competent, well-experienced albeit woman, agent a solid baseline from which to negotiate.

Cheers

[MightyGiants]

It almost certainly about guaranteed money. Let's not forget that playing under the tag gives Barkley a 100% guarantee of $10 million this year and at least another 12 million next year. That would be a hefty $22+ million fully guaranteed which gives him and his competent, well-experienced albeit woman, agent a solid baseline from which to negotiate.

Cheers

Larry,

I would suggest that only $10 million is guaranteed.  If Barkley gets hurt again or his production drops, the Giants are under no obligation to offer the $12 million tag next season.

Barkley has been hurt quite a bit, and he is playing a position where players drop off a cliff with little to no warning.  While I am sure Barkley's agent has posited your argument, I would have to think that Schoen and company see things as I do. 

I would think the best Barkley could hope for is around $20 million in guaranteed money and a heavily incentivized contract with per-game bonuses.

[T200]

Jimmy,

I will acknowledge you make valid points with 10 years in the business and having a few other NFL clients.  On the other hand, the weak market for RBs was something I think everyone on our forum could see coming.   Between the league devaluing the position and the bumper crop of RBs in the 2023 draft, who didn't see a tough time for veterans looking for a new deal?

For Kim to fail to recognize the situation for veteran RBs boarders on agent malpractice, in my opinion.  Hell, I can remember saying that Barkley should take the money and run when it was reported that NYG made an offer to him at the bye.  If I, a non-agent could recognize the situation, how on earth did Kim fail to?

Personally, I think they overvalued Barkley's importance to the Giants, without regard to any other team.

He started the season on fire and was the Giants offense for the better part of the first half of the season. If Saquon doesn't get off to a hot start, DJ doesn't have as good a season and the Giants don't get to the playoffs. Saquon's re-emergence this season is what they were looking to capitalize on, IMHO. Unfortunately for SB, JS stayed firm in what he was willing to offer and nothing more.

[Ed Vette]

I think we all agree that the Giants were a much better team with Saquon than without him.

What would the drop off be this year? They have to build the Offense around Jones who they paid. Bring in Elliot and kick the tires and go with Breda and whoever would emerge as the number two. Heck, Grey may even be that number one. This is what we're looking at if he doesn't sign the tag and if the Giants don't blink.

I'm thinking they have no intention of blinking.

[Ed Vette]

Larry,

I would suggest that only $10 million is guaranteed.  If Barkley gets hurt again or his production drops, the Giants are under no obligation to offer the $12 million tag next season.

Barkley has been hurt quite a bit, and he is playing a position where players drop off a cliff with little to no warning.  While I am sure Barkley's agent has posited your argument, I would have to think that Schoen and company see things as I do. 

I would think the best Barkley could hope for is around $20 million in guaranteed money and a heavily incentivized contract with per-game bonuses.

He's taking a huge risk signing that tag.

[MightyGiants]

Personally, I think they overvalued Barkley's importance to the Giants, without regard to any other team.

He started the season on fire and was the Giants offense for the better part of the first half of the season. If Saquon doesn't get off to a hot start, DJ doesn't have as good a season and the Giants don't get to the playoffs. Saquon's re-emergence this season is what they were looking to capitalize on, IMHO. Unfortunately for SB, JS stayed firm in what he was willing to offer and nothing more.

I could see that maybe being the reason they turned down the bye-week offer.  However, if you look at Barkley's stats on a game-by-game basis it wasn't hard to notice that Barkley's role diminished in the second half of the season.

In the first 9 games, Barkley had:

0 games with single-digit carries
2 games with carries in the teens
4 games with carries in the 20s
2 games with carries in the 30s

in the last 9 games Barkley had:

3 games with single-digit carries
6 games with carries in the teens
0 games with carries in the twenties
0 games with carries in the thirties

It wasn't hard to see that as the Giants passing offense started to gel, Barkley's role diminished.

[MightyGiants]

He's taking a huge risk signing that tag.

That he is, frankly, whatever the Giants offered in the way of a contract would be a better deal for Barkley than playing on the tag. 

[T200]

I could see that maybe being the reason they turned down the bye-week offer.  However, if you look at Barkley's stats on a game-by-game basis it wasn't hard to notice that Barkley's role diminished in the second half of the season.

In the first 9 games, Barkley had:

0 games with single-digit carries
2 games with carries in the teens
4 games with carries in the 20s
2 games with carries in the 30s

in the last 9 games Barkley had:

3 games with single-digit carries
6 games with carries in the teens
0 games with carries in the twenties
0 games with carries in the thirties

It wasn't hard to see that as the Giants passing offense started to gel, Barkley's role diminished.

Dollars to donuts, that was Schoen's focus as well.

Barkley returned from a significant injury and balled out for the first 8/9 games. Six of those first eight games had him with 20+ carries. His stamina just wasn't there to continue on that pace for a full season.

And yes, Slayton holding onto the ball helped revive the passing game and relieved Barkley from carrying the offensive load.

[Painter]

Larry,

I would suggest that only $10 million is guaranteed.  If Barkley gets hurt again or his production drops, the Giants are under no obligation to offer the $12 million tag next season.

Barkley has been hurt quite a bit, and he is playing a position where players drop off a cliff with little to no warning.  While I am sure Barkley's agent has posited your argument, I would have to think that Schoen and company see things as I do. 

I would think the best Barkley could hope for is around $20 million in guaranteed money and a heavily incentivized contract with per-game bonuses.

I didn't say that there is any obligation to tag him again next year. I'm sure neither side wants that but as long as he is productive under the cap this year, $ 22+ million could become an attractive baseline guarantee given the always present uncertainty. And uncertainty is precisely why they continue to look for common ground. One thing that is certain is that none of us are in any position to add our 2 cents as we have no idea where the parties are presently. And we are hardy unbiased in any case.

Cheers!

[MightyGiants]

I am curious, if you were in Schoen's shoes what would you offer Barkley?

How much guaranteed money?

Average per year?

How many years on the contract?