Diagnosing The Defense

[Jclayton92]

Diagnosing the Defense, are the 2023 NY Giants in a better place defensively than they were last year? Let's take a look position by position.

DT/NT/DE- I grouped them together because most of these positions are interchangeable and dependent on what formation we are in. Lawrence and Williams largely are the foundation here and I'd hope so given their contracts. Those 2 men played more snaps then almost any other Dlinemen in the league out of necessity. This offseason we added Nunez-Roches and Robinson in the hopes it stabilizes not only our depth but run support. Key backups including Ryder Anderson who seems to have added 30 lbs along with Davidson and Riley. One thing can't be denied, the front office saw a weakness and attacked it in the offseason giving us flexibility upfront, and rest for our top 2 guys. We significantly upgraded here this offseason and we needed it.

Pass Rush- Thibs and Ojulari will go a long way to dictating how this Defense does in 2023, elevated play in their game takes pressure off the back. The concern is that there isn't a viable option behind them. Yes Ward played admirably but isn't someone you can count on as a full time starter which only leaves Fox, Ximines, and Baldonado behind them. One Injury to the injury prone thibs or Ojulari could be catastrophic in the efforts for this defense to be better. We virtually stayed the same Here and while top heavy this is one of the more glaring omissions to what was a great offseason. By staying the same we got worse here in my opinion.

Linebacker- The upgrade in Bobby OK was severely needed after seeing Micah McFadden be lost and Smith/Collins be old last season. With an encouraging depth of Davis/Beavers to man the other Mike spot this seemed serviceable at first glance but with Davis going down, we need Beavers to step up and be ready despite missing last season. Depth include Dyontae Johnson and Micah McFadden but if either plays I would consider it a bad outcome to training camp. We definitely got better by leaps and bounds at one Mike, and we can only be optimistic that Beavers plays the same way he did last camp that had Martindale so excited. I'm hopefully optimistic but I'd love a camp cut signing as an insurance or safety net to Beavers and Bobby.

Nickel Corner- Holmes, Flott, and Aaron Robinson return in what should be a heated competition. I moved Robinson inside with the added boundary depth with obtained this offseason. Holmes could seriously be a cap casualty and I for one wouldn't mind it, what he did well in the run game couldn't make up for his consistent busted coverages. Flott while he might not be the ideal candidate in run defense can at least attack from the Nickel and press in a way that Holmes simply can't. Robinson if healthy could be a wild card here, at boundary, or at safety. I think job is Flotts to lose and I'm perfectly fine with that and think the team will be better for it.

Boundary Corner- Jackson comes back as the bona-fide #1 with a hungry dog In the #2 seat with Banks. Between the two of them I am actually really pumped but I am not sure Banks will start as Wink has a tendency to slow roll corners and them not starting until later in the season. Backup depth while not flashy Amani Oruwariye, Tre Hawkins, and Aaron Robinson leave me optimistic that if something did happen to a start we could still be competitive and that there is room for this room to grow with development and time. I feel better today about boundary than I did last year at this same time.

Safety- This is the year Mckinney gets back to playing deep and shows everyone the ball hawking skills that had us so excited after the year before last. Opposite him we are in for a battle, McCain, Pinnock, McCloud, and Owens are fighting for snaps and I am excited at the prospect of them getting better and someone surprising us. The primary backup to Mckinney will be Belton, and if he converted a few more of those Pass breakups to Ints last season we would be talking about him in a different light. All in between Pinnock  Owens, Belton, and McCloud we have a ton of young, cheap secondary pieces to develop. I think wr got worse here simply because Love was one of the best tacklers at any defensive position last year and that's hard to replace but I am excited for the young talent and encouraged.

Which position do you think we got better or worse at?

 Is there a position that you'll be following closer than others in camp?

Which position do you still think we need help at?

[DaveBrown74]

Great post Jess... really thorough, and I agree with just about all of it.

Overall I think our defense is improving and has some really nice young players. It should be better than last year, and we have a great DC who really knows what he is doing. That said, there is still work to be done on the roster before I'd call us a legitimately upper echelon NFL defense.

To address your questions:


Position(s) we improved at:

1. DT - We have good starters and did last year, but the big issue was depth. With the signings of Nacho and Robinson, plus hopefully the return of Davidson, we figure to be able to have a much easier time rotating and keeping guys fresh.

2. ILB - The addition of Okereke is massive. He's a very good player, and it was very clear that Schoen really wanted him (perhaps cued by Wink). I also think they're quietly very high on Beavers, so getting him back should hopefully help, albeit he has proven nothing to this point.



Position(s) we got worse at:


1. I really only have safety, due to the loss of Love, which was kind of unfortunate and weird the way it played out. The one thing I'd say though is don't forget McKinney missed a bunch of games last year with that ATV accident, so having him back hopefully for a full season should help. I feel like there are enough guys in the mix that we may still be ok at this position.



Positions I am going to follow closely in camp/preseason:

On the defensive side of the ball, I wouldn't say there is one position I will follow more closely than others, but I will be keeping a close eye on Thibodeaux. I am looking for him to have a big second year.



Positions we still need help at:

Definitely EDGE: While I like both of our guys, that's all we have. We need a good third EDGE player and a serviceable/situational 4th one. You can't just have two good EDGE guys. It's not enough. Look at all good Giants teams in the last half century. All had more than two quality outside rushers.




In Conclusion

Overall I think the D will be roughly league average this year. Last year we were definitely below average. We invested more in offense in the offseason, although I do think Okereke was a big add, and I like what we did depth-wise on the D line. And since we have a lot of young players, being a year older should be a good thing, not a bad thing. Still a work in progress and heading in the right direction.

[Jclayton92]

Great post Jess... really thorough, and I agree with just about all of it.

Overall I think our defense is improving and has some really nice young players. It should be better than last year, and we have a great DC who really knows what he is doing. That said, there is still work to be done on the roster before I'd call us a legitimately upper echelon NFL defense.

To address your questions:


Position(s) we improved at:

1. DT - We have good starters and did last year, but the big issue was depth. With the signings of Nacho and Robinson, plus hopefully the return of Davidson, we figure to be able to have a much easier time rotating and keeping guys fresh.

2. ILB - The addition of Okereke is massive. He's a very good player, and it was very clear that Schoen really wanted him (perhaps cued by Wink). I also think they're quietly very high on Beavers, so getting him back should hopefully help, albeit he has proven nothing to this point.



Position(s) we got worse at:


1. I really only have safety, due to the loss of Love, which was kind of unfortunate and weird the way it played out. The one thing I'd say though is don't forget McKinney missed a bunch of games last year with that ATV accident, so having him back hopefully for a full season should help. I feel like there are enough guys in the mix that we may still be ok at this position.



Positions I am going to follow closely in camp/preseason:

On the defensive side of the ball, I wouldn't say there is one position I will follow more closely than others, but I will be keeping a close eye on Thibodeaux. I am looking for him to have a big second year.



Positions we still need help at:

Definitely EDGE: While I like both of our guys, that's all we have. We need a good third EDGE player and a serviceable/situational 4th one. You can't just have two good EDGE guys. It's not enough. Look at all good Giants teams in the last half century. All had more than two quality outside rushers.




In Conclusion

Overall I think the D will be roughly league average this year. Last year we were definitely below average. We invested more in offense in the offseason, although I do think Okereke was a big add, and I like what we did depth-wise on the D line. And since we have a lot of young players, being a year older should be a good thing, not a bad thing. Still a work in progress and heading in the right direction.

Great follow up, I agree completely with everything, I think camp cut wise we need at minimum probably 2 edges and a Mike as an insurance policy to Beavers.

[DaveBrown74]

Great follow up, I agree completely with everything, I think camp cut wise we need at minimum probably 2 edges and a Mike as an insurance policy to Beavers.

What are your expectations for Banks in his rookie season? Do you expect a lot of growing pains and kind of a bumpy rookie season (normal for corners), or does he have a chance to pick it up quickly and potentially do well this year?

[Philosophers]

The best way our D improves against the pass is if Thibs becomes a 10+ sack and consistent pressure edge rusher.  We know what we will get with Ojulari in that he'll be decent until he gets hurt.  Edge is an offseason priority for sure in 2024.

[Jclayton92]

What are your expectations for Banks in his rookie season? Do you expect a lot of growing pains and kind of a bumpy rookie season (normal for corners), or does he have a chance to pick it up quickly and potentially do well this year?

I think if wink plays man he'll have growing pains but a solid if not good rookie year. If we run a ton of zone like we did at the middle/end then I could see there being significant bumps. He's going to face some really good #2 Wrs this season so we will know quickly.

[Jclayton92]

The best way our D improves against the pass is if Thibs becomes a 10+ sack and consistent pressure edge rusher.  We know what we will get with Ojulari in that he'll be decent until he gets hurt.  Edge is an offseason priority for sure in 2024.

That's the problem if Ojulari or Thibs miss any time we have nothing. Ximines sat at home eating burgers in the offseason not getting better.

[nb587]

Signing Barkley and maybe even Thomas might have freed up some money to sign a veteran at a position of need if they feel the need to upgrade.  I'm thinking that they would like to get a better look at the kids first.

In terms of the overall defense, they played ok last year.  They didnt play many top QBs and top offenses but they've improved the talent in multiple places. And, while the league may have figured Wink out to some degree, between free agency and the draft, players are here now with skill levels that Wink could better utilize than what he had last year

[Stringer Bell]

I'm a bit less optimistic than most when it comes to this defense. I just don't see enough quality depth, despite the signings made in the offseason.

The DL should be OK this year, but they will need to draft someone in the first 3 rounds next year assuming Leo and Robinson are gone. Not really holding out hope for any surprises out of the others in that group outside of Dex and Nacho.

Pass rush has NO depth. There's Thibs and that's it. I just can't count on Azeez to stay on the field. And the rest leave much to be desired.

At LB, Okereke is a major and long-term upgrade that was sorely needed, and I do hold some hope that Beavers is going to take the next step this year. Absolutely imperative that he plays 14+ games this year.

The unit I feel most confident about is CB. I love the duo of Adoree and Banks. Flott is my pick for biggest chance to take next step this year, and I even see one of the depth guys (my pick is Hawkins) as pulling a surprise and contributing.

I'm a huge McKinney fan, but the other starter will be the weakest link of our defense.