In the second half Jones did something no other QB in history has done

[Thegratefulhead]

Mighty, In his first playoff game, Jones played the best game of his life and did thing a no QB has ever done.

Our season was over at halftime yesterday.

Be honest.

We were staring at 0-3.

He had to be perfect.

Jones was perfect in the second half and saved the season.

My guy.

I have seen enough.

Protect him, and this team will fly.

[T200]

I think the commonality is that, like with Eli, too many fans rush to judgment.  Once you declare your judgment, it's hard to maintain objectivity.  Remember how many fans had declared by 2007 that Eli Manning was not a franchise QB and never led the team to a Super Bowl (based on his play and playoff losses since coming into the league.  With DJ, he didn't even get that much time before being declared a below-average QB who the Giants made a mistake drafting or drafted too high.

The controversy will remain until the Giants move on from DJ or DJ wins at least one Super Bowl. 


I will add this in terms of perspective.  Many NFL QBs get NFL-caliber support; it's pretty common.  Not every QB who gets that sort of support plays like Daniel Jones did yesterday.  Of course, since it took time for the offense to get going and DJ did not appear to start trusting his O-line until the second half, there will be those who will focus on that aspect of his game because it's supportive of their views.

We seem to be in a sort of Rorschach phase in terms of Daniel Jones and the NY Giants.  We are all looking at the football equivalent of an ink blotch and our inclinations mold what we shape we see.

I will not attempt to speak for anyone else... I can only go by the responses I read. In no way is this meant to single you, Rich, out. There are others that do it to.

We all want to be respected for our perspectives and opinions. Unfortunately, discussions take a turn when our perspectives and opinions are labeled as "wrong", "unfair", "biased", "judgmental", and any other box that puts people on the defensive. If we are to be the "Home of the best informed Giants fans", then part of that information includes knowing that respecting a different point of view goes a long way in peaceful and respectful discussions. No one opinion is better than another.

We have to get to a point where we respect each other's perspective. We don't have to be a 20-year NFL analyst to feel that Jones is a very good QB or say that he doesn't have a strong enough arm to throw deep to Slayton or Hyatt and hit them in stride. There is no right or wrong when it comes to what any fan sees. Just like a Rorschach test, you can't tell someone they're wrong, biased, judgmental, or unfair in what they see.

[MightyGiants]

Mighty, In his first playoff game, Jones played the best game of his life and did thing a no QB has ever done.

Our season was over at halftime yesterday.

Be honest.

We were staring at 0-3.

He had to be perfect.

Jones was perfect in the second half and saved the season.

My guy.

I have seen enough.

Protect him, and this team will fly.

I am certainly going to give DJ credit.  He came up big in a very difficult situation.  With the Giants D giving up 8 on the Cards' first possession of the half, the offense had to be perfect.  That is exactly what they were with the second half Giants drives ending:

TD
TD
TD
TD
FG

[Rambo89]

You are right. I missed the point. So what I can say, is fairness is related to the evaluation any position with the right set of criteria. While I agree with the (un)fairness of the evaluation of Daniel Jones, I don't agree with the middle finger part of it. The guy looks like a class act and not a Toney kindof act.

The point was applying the same criteria of (un)fairness when evaluating the offensive line and receiving group as with Jones. 

I asked in the other thread: What is fair and unfair criticism?

DJ is the QB of the team. He always sits at the head of the table. But here's where things divide on this site:

Giants win >> DJ is at the head of the table and should get the lion's share of the credit.

Giants lose >> DJ is at the head of the table and his supporting cast gets the lion's share of the blame.

Those who criticize Jones are called out for having an agenda, never liking Jones, etc.

Those who support Jones are called out for blue-washing his faults, blaming his supporting cast, etc.

Sadly, I don't see an end in sight. Happened with Eli as well.

Very fair balanced post.  We all have our biases and no one is immune to not having a bias no matter how much they try to claim they don't.

[PSUBeirut]

Here's the intangible part that struck me- after that 3rd TD, was there anyone watching that game that did not sense the air of inevitability to it?  It's been a long time since I've seen that on the Giants- last time I remember feeling that was watching Eli Manning in his prime at the end of 1st halves- it felt inevitable that he would drive the Giants down and get some sort of points if he had the ball in his hands.

Once DJ and the offense got rolling and the momentum had clearly shifted, the game was over even though we were still down a TD.  That was fun to experience again.

[Rambo89]

Here's the intangible part that struck me- after that 3rd TD, was there anyone watching that game that did not sense the air of inevitability to it?  It's been a long time since I've seen that on the Giants- last time I remember feeling that was watching Eli Manning in his prime at the end of 1st halves- it felt inevitable that he would drive the Giants down and get some sort of points if he had the ball in his hands.

Once DJ and the offense got rolling and the momentum had clearly shifted, the game was over even though we were still down a TD.  That was fun to experience again.

Not sure if it was that exact feeling but I definitely had a feeling based upon how bad the Arizona defense looked and what happened to them last week that it was the Giants game to lose late.

[Painter]

Does it really have to be said that football is a team sport in which the Quarterback is the central figure whose performance, more often than not, will have the biggest impact on any particular game's outcome?

While we may have difficulty apportioning blame for the debacle of the week before, we should have no reservation in giving full credit to Daniel Jones for yesterday's unimagined record-setting 2H performance.

There is nothing to be gained in quibbling about it when our time would be better spent in speculating what it might mean in terms of the team's- staff included- performance in the remaining 15 games allowing, of course, for the ever-presence of the unpredictable.

Cheers!

[MightyGiants]

I will not attempt to speak for anyone else... I can only go by the responses I read. In no way is this meant to single you, Rich, out. There are others that do it to.

We all want to be respected for our perspectives and opinions. Unfortunately, discussions take a turn when our perspectives and opinions are labeled as "wrong", "unfair", "biased", "judgmental", and any other box that puts people on the defensive. If we are to be the "Home of the best informed Giants fans", then part of that information includes knowing that respecting a different point of view goes a long way in peaceful and respectful discussions. No one opinion is better than another.

We have to get to a point where we respect each other's perspective. We don't have to be a 20-year NFL analyst to feel that Jones is a very good QB or say that he doesn't have a strong enough arm to throw deep to Slayton or Hyatt and hit them in stride. There is no right or wrong when it comes to what any fan sees. Just like a Rorschach test, you can't tell someone they're wrong, biased, judgmental, or unfair in what they see.

I will not attempt to speak for anyone else... I can only go by the responses I read. In no way is this meant to single you, Rich, out. There are others that do it to.

We all want to be respected for our perspectives and opinions. Unfortunately, discussions take a turn when our perspectives and opinions are labeled as "wrong", "unfair", "biased", "judgmental", and any other box that puts people on the defensive. If we are to be the "Home of the best informed Giants fans", then part of that information includes knowing that respecting a different point of view goes a long way in peaceful and respectful discussions. No one opinion is better than another.

We have to get to a point where we respect each other's perspective. We don't have to be a 20-year NFL analyst to feel that Jones is a very good QB or say that he doesn't have a strong enough arm to throw deep to Slayton or Hyatt and hit them in stride. There is no right or wrong when it comes to what any fan sees. Just like a Rorschach test, you can't tell someone they're wrong, biased, judgmental, or unfair in what they see.

Tim,

I have had an interest in topics like opinions, facts, and beliefs.  One thing that I have learned in my readings on the subject is that everyone is entitled to their opinions.  By that, they are free to express them without prosecution and if not harmful, should be received respectfully.

Sometimes, people equate that view with the view that all opinions are equally valid.  I have heard strong and compelling arguments that all opinions are equal.  Some opinions are better thought out.  Some are better supported with logic and/or facts.  Some opinions come from subject matter experts, which should mean the opinion (while not assumed correct) should carry more weight.

I will give you an example. Suppose there are two opinions about player X on the Giants:

Opinion one is made by a casual fan who tunes in to an occasional fan of his hometown team.  This person expresses an opinion that player X is bad (or good; it doesn't matter for the point of illustration). 

Opinion two is by a former NFL coach who studied game tape of many of player X's games over the past couple of seasons.  His opinion contradicts opinion one.

Now, would you say those two opinions are equally valid?  I will grant you that both people should be treated respectfully, but would you say those opinions are equal?

[Rambo89]

True, but if you ignore DJ sitting at the head of the table, you might be in the unfair critic category.

Then Daniel Jones needs to be placed sitting at the head of the table when things don't go well as well as when they do go well.  It needs to be equal on both ends.

[MightyGiants]

Then Daniel Jones needs to be placed sitting at the head of the table when things don't go well as well as when they do go well.  It needs to be equal on both ends.

If you are sitting at the head of the table and the rest of the guests are having a food fight, will you blame the guy for getting his clothes dirty by sitting at the head of the table?

This particular analogy has its limitations, as QB is a position that can't operate (or operate well) if the protection and receiving aren't there.   On the other hand, an offensive lineman can play well regardless of the QB (although a savvy QB can make them look better).  Receivers are dependent on QB play and O-line play, but to a lesser extent than the QB.

[Rambo89]

If you are sitting at the head of the table and the rest of the guests are having a food fight, will you blame the guy for getting his clothes dirty by sitting at the head of the table?

This particular analogy has its limitations, as QB is a position that can't operate (or operate well) if the protection and receiving aren't there.   On the other hand, an offensive lineman can play well regardless of the QB (although a savvy QB can make them look better).  Receivers are dependent on QB play and O-line play, but to a lesser extent than the QB.

Sorry this is having a double standard when it comes to evaluating Daniel Jones.  He gets all of the credit when things go well with his supporting cast being a side note.  But when things don't go well he gets little to no blame with his supporting cast getting almost all or all of the blame.  Don't know how the expectations are higher for the supporting cast than they are the guy sitting at the head of the table.

When we discuss being fair or unfair this is the very definition of being unfair in evaluating due to our own personal biases/agenda.

[MightyGiants]

Sorry this is having a double standard

This is the reality of football, regards if its a "double standard"

[Rambo89]

This is the reality of football, regards if its a "double standard"

Not really.  The reality of football is the QB sitting at the head of the table gets the credit when things go well and the blame when they don't go well.  The double standard is saying when things go well they get credit but when it doesn't they get no blame.

[T200]

Tim,

I will give you an example. Suppose there are two opinions about player X on the Giants:

Opinion one is made by a casual fan who tunes in to an occasional fan of his hometown team.  This person expresses an opinion that player X is bad (or good; it doesn't matter for the point of illustration). 

Opinion two is by a former NFL coach who studied game tape of many of player X's games over the past couple of seasons.  His opinion contradicts opinion one.

Now, would you say those two opinions are equally valid?  I will grant you that both people should be treated respectfully, but would you say those opinions are equal?

Context matters. On this site, yes, both opinions are valid and equal. No one is making life-altering decisions based on our football opinions.

You and someone else mentioned "unfair critics" and I asked what the difference is. I'd like to see what your thoughts are on that.

[MightyGiants]

Context matters. On this site, yes, both opinions are valid and equal. No one is making life-altering decisions based on our football opinions.

You and someone else mentioned "unfair critics" and I asked what the difference is. I'd like to see what your thoughts are on that.

I think it's worth remembering that we are addressing critics and criticism which is a bit of a sub-set of opinions.   We are also looking at what could be considered fair or unfair criticism of Daniel Jones.

I think examples might best illustrate what are (or what I view) fair and unfair criticism.

Before Daniel Jones took a single snap for NYG-

Giants drafting Daniel Jones is a 'big mistake' – Todd McShay

That is what I consider an unfair criticism

"Daniel Jones struggled in the first half of the Cards game." 

That would be a fair criticism, in my opinion, especially if they acknowledge the final outcome of the game and DJ's great second half.