Niners Players Mock DJ

[Trench]

Why doesn't Jones ever seem to audible?

Unless I miss it, it doesn't seem like he ever does. Does that concern anyone?

[DragonSoul]

If it's always about what's around Daniel Jones and never about him then it tells me he's not ever going to be elite.  Yes, he has proven he can be a solid average QB.  He's not awful but not great.

Difference between the guys you mentioned and Jones is that Jones has better physical skills than they do but his pocket awareness and instincts are just as lacking as theirs were.  I hate to tell John Mara but no matter how much he tries to find the next Eli looking for a QB with a similar personality there is only one Eli.  Find a QB with the full skill set rather than another Eli.

Do you recall how Brady looked in the SB when his line couldn't protect him? Even Mahomes when both his tackles were injured heading to the SB game. Wasn't a good outcome for either.

You need stability there. If they ever get there, then we can see. First, he had issues with turnovers and staying healthy. He corrected them by not always trying to do too much as many of the QBS try to do. There are times to take chances and then others not. He also (knock on wood) has started to stay healthy.

Eli had line problems and looked like crap for years due to it as well as bad weapons around him for years. If they had at least good/average players he would have done more and maybe played several more years.

The bottom line, he has looked good when he generally has had protection, but without at least an average oline the majority of the time, it's hard to judge a QB when the QB gets hit, and sacked all the time.

Wasn't it nearly 70% of his pass plays vs. the Cowboys DJ got hit? And you want him to stand in the pocket longer with that "protection"? I know some people like pain, but that would be unbearable lol.

Again, can agree to disagree. But if/when they fix that oline and if DJ is still here then if he dinks/dunks I'm rt with you. Otherwise the jury is still out.

[DaveBrown74]

I bet DJ wishes he was drafted by a team that has an actual OL. I wonder if he wishes they allowed him to be a FA.

They didn't tag him. He didn't have to sign here.

[Rambo89]

I bet DJ wishes he was drafted by a team that has an actual OL. I wonder if he wishes they allowed him to be a FA.

He had his chance to be a FA and turned it down.  I think he knows the grass isn't always greener on the other side and not every team would be as patient with him as the Giants have due to having an owner who is obsessed with him succeeding.

Do you recall how Brady looked in the SB when his line couldn't protect him? Even Mahomes when both his tackles were injured heading to the SB game. Wasn't a good outcome for either.

You need stability there. If they ever get there, then we can see. First, he had issues with turnovers and staying healthy. He corrected them by not always trying to do too much as many of the QBS try to do. There are times to take chances and then others not. He also (knock on wood) has started to stay healthy.

Eli had line problems and looked like crap for years due to it as well as bad weapons around him for years. If they had at least good/average players he would have done more and maybe played several more years.

The bottom line, he has looked good when he generally has had protection, but without at least an average oline the majority of the time, it's hard to judge a QB when the QB gets hit, and sacked all the time.

Wasn't it nearly 70% of his pass plays vs. the Cowboys DJ got hit? And you want him to stand in the pocket longer with that "protection"? I know some people like pain, but that would be unbearable lol.

Again, can agree to disagree. But if/when they fix that oline and if DJ is still here then if he dinks/dunks I'm rt with you. Otherwise the jury is still out.

Here's the thing those examples of HOF QB's are the rare game here and there for those players.  Those are the exception for them not the norm.  For Daniel Jones they're the norm.

Daniel Jones is a 5th year QB.  Not a first or even second year.  He's not awful.  He'll show you flashes at times but his overall game gives you average production.  He's Alex Smith who was on bad teams with little help early in his career then when he finally got help put together some good seasons but was never elite.  If you have a team around Jones to prop him up he can put together some good QB seasons (I don't consider 3,200 15 TD's a good season).  But I don't think he'll ever be on that elite level.

[miss86]

They didn't tag him. He didn't have to sign here.

That's true. But I bet he thought there was the appearance on paper of a somewhat fixed OL. But reality hit. Who knows what the guy really thinks, he's never gonna say it out loud. If I was him, I'd be wondering if I shouldn't have tested the market. If there was any hint of that, the Giants would have tagged him.

Bottom line, they have to get this OL fixed. Sick of saying it. Sick of watching it. 

[DaveBrown74]

That's true. But I bet he thought there was the appearance on paper of a somewhat fixed OL. But reality hit. Who knows what the guy really thinks, he's never gonna say it out loud. If I was him, I'd be wondering if I shouldn't have tested the market. If there was any hint of that, the Giants would have tagged him.

Bottom line, they have to get this OL fixed. Sick of saying it. Sick of watching it. 

I won't pretend to know what is in his deep thoughts right now, but the bottom line is he could have left, and he chose to stay. I'm sure he thought about it plenty, and I tend to doubt he would change his mind about such a big decision after a 1-2 start with both losses being against elite defenses.

Money is also a significant consideration in all this. We know he was determined to get paid as much as possible (his opening ask was $47mm per and there was a lengthy negotiation), and it's unclear (at best) to me that he could have done better elsewhere. I don't think his stock is higher with anyone than it is with his current team. Look at the Athletic article from just a couple months ago that polled active coaches and GMs around the league. Collectively they didn't have him in even the top 20. These aren't pundits - these are key decision makers on other teams. Would he really have gotten a better contract than this from someone else? We'll never know for sure, but I doubt it, and the evidence doesn't point in that direction.

[MightyGiants]

They didn't tag him. He didn't have to sign here.

@miss86 and @Rambo89

To be accurate, they didn't tag Jones, but Schoen was clear and public that Jones would be tagged if they didn't reach a long-term contract.   Miss86 correctly said that the Giants prevented Jones from becoming a free agent.

[Rambo89]

That's true. But I bet he thought there was the appearance on paper of a somewhat fixed OL. But reality hit. Who knows what the guy really thinks, he's never gonna say it out loud. If I was him, I'd be wondering if I shouldn't have tested the market. If there was any hint of that, the Giants would have tagged him.

Bottom line, they have to get this OL fixed. Sick of saying it. Sick of watching it. 

He needs to worry about his own play and not deflect to those around him as others have.  But I get the sense he isn't deflecting to those around him judging by what he has said in public when interviewed.

@miss86 and @Rambo89

To be accurate, they didn't tag Jones, but Schoen was clear and public that Jones would be tagged if they didn't reach a long-term contract.   Miss86 correctly said that the Giants prevented Jones from becoming a free agent.

If Jones wanted out he would have made that clear.  He didn't.  He was looking for the best deal to stay with the Giants. 

[DragonSoul]

He had his chance to be a FA and turned it down.  I think he knows the grass isn't always greener on the other side and not every team would be as patient with him as the Giants have due to having an owner who is obsessed with him succeeding.

Here's the thing those examples of HOF QB's are the rare game here and there for those players.  Those are the exception for them not the norm.  For Daniel Jones they're the norm.

Daniel Jones is a 5th year QB.  Not a first or even second year.  He's not awful.  He'll show you flashes at times but his overall game gives you average production.  He's Alex Smith who was on bad teams with little help early in his career then when he finally got help put together some good seasons but was never elite.  If you have a team around Jones to prop him up he can put together some good QB seasons (I don't consider 3,200 15 TD's a good season).  But I don't think he'll ever be on that elite level.

Those aren't aberrations, bad lines even kill good qbs, like David Carr who never had a chance in Houston b/c of the line.

Alex Smith was ok/good, DJ is above that and I heard that comparison b4 by Cosell. Alex never had the arm and rarely tried to go deep. And Alex had good teams around him. DJ doesn't have the time, and when he does he slings it even when he had no weapons, and guess what, turnover galore. 3 ints this year none on DJ but his guys who caught or tipped the ball for ints. And how many drops again?

[Rambo89]

Those aren't aberrations, bad lines even kill good qbs, like David Carr who never had a chance in Houston b/c of the line.

Alex Smith was ok/good, DJ is above that and I heard that comparison b4 by Cosell. Alex never had the arm and rarely tried to go deep. And Alex had good teams around him. DJ doesn't have the time, and when he does he slings it even when he had no weapons, and guess what, turnover galore. 3 ints this year none on DJ but his guys who caught or tipped the ball for ints. And how many drops again?

Smith never had Jones's arm but he had much better instincts and pocket awareness than Jones has.  Early in Smith's career he was surrounded by bad teams.  It wasn't until 2011 that he had a good team around him and that was when his numbers shot up.

[kartanoman]

That was also the year they signed Burress and the first full season of Eli Manning as their Starting QB.  So to say it was because they drafted Snee simply isn't true.  Because there were other factors as well that led to that increase in production mainly the QB's play.

The most important factor, which needs to be included here, is Tiki Barber's MVP season (NOTE: despite the fact the league gave it to Seattle's Shaun Alexander) and that 2002 line helped him achieve 1,860 yards rushing that season.

Kareem McKenzie also joined the Giants in 2005 to stabilize the RT position. Shaun O'Hara and Chris Snee were acquired in 2004, David Diehl in 2003, and Luke Petitgout at LT. The O-Line came together and played well for most of the season and considerably better than the previous two seasons.

The young Eli Manning had Barber and Jacobs in the backfield, Toomer and Burress and his primary receivers, Shockey as his TE, and a rebuilt offensive line that was in the process of synergizing into a cohesive unit. It was a surprisingly good season with a terrible ending in getting goose-egged in the Wild-Card round against Carolina.

But the line would continue to develop as Petitgout broke his leg in 2006, prompting Diehl to move to left tackle and bringing in Rich Seubert as left guard. Rich, who had been with the Giants since 2001, and had recovered from a nasty leg fracture in 2003, worked his way into becoming a full-time starter in 2007. That was the final piece of the Super Bowl Offensive Line which would help Eli make history in Super Bowl XVII and terrorize the league in 2008 with the best all-around running game with Earth, Wind and Fire.

Peace!

[kartanoman]

Meh... what goes around, comes around.

Plenty of folks here were gloating when Kadarius Toney had a case of the dropsies and cost KC the game in the season opener.

Then we go 6 quarters before scoring. And now a team is talking smack about our QB after they beat us. Stones and glass houses aren't a good combination.

Don't want them to talk smack? Play better.

EXACTLY!

DO something about it! You punch 'em  square in the jaw, and keep doing it, until they don't want to get punched anymore.

It's true the Giants' offense did get smacked around in the end when it became one-dimensional. But I thought the defense, penalties and all, played hard and kept them in it for the better part of three quarters which is all you could ask.

All this other crap about the 49ers saying this or that is kind of funny because the Giants were jawing right back at them during the game. We've seen this before going as far back as Parcells and Walsh in 1984 and again with Parcells and Seifert in 1990. These two teams simply do not like each other, and the 49ers are still pi$$ed off at the Giants for ruining their "three-peat" as well as their 2011 NFC Championship.

This is why the Giants need to get better in order to renew this rivalry which is good for the entire league. I'll tell you it's far better than SF-Dallas which is a BS "beauty pageant," instead of a football rivalry. Besides, the 49ers continue to wipe the floor with the Cowboys anyway so there's no rivalry to see there anyway.

Like them or not, the 49ers are the best team in football right now and only the Chiefs can put them in their place during the Super Bowl. A lot can happen between now and then and it probably will. But nobody out of the NFC can lay a glove on them right now and that include the Iggles. A full game with Brock Purdy will demonstrate that.

Peace!

[Trench]

Those aren't aberrations, bad lines even kill good qbs, like David Carr who never had a chance in Houston b/c of the line.

Alex Smith was ok/good, DJ is above that and I heard that comparison b4 by Cosell. Alex never had the arm and rarely tried to go deep. And Alex had good teams around him. DJ doesn't have the time, and when he does he slings it even when he had no weapons, and guess what, turnover galore. 3 ints this year none on DJ but his guys who caught or tipped the ball for ints. And how many drops again?

Simple question for us all to ponder:

If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?

If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.

[Ed Vette]

Simple question for us all to ponder:

If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?

If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.

Reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello joke. "What would you charge to haunt a house?"
"How many rooms?"

Depends on which team and where the pick is.

[Trench]

Reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello joke. "What would you charge to haunt a house?"
"How many rooms?"

Depends on which team and where the pick is.

Excellent Ed