CJ Stroud Vs Daniel Jones

[Philosophers]

Through 3 games:

CJ - 78/121 (64.5%) 906 yds, 4 TDs/0 INTs, 7.5 Y/A, 11.6 Y/C, Rate 98, Sacks 11, Sack % 8.3%

DJ - 63/97 (64.9%) 562 yds, 2 TDs/4 INTs 5.8 Y/A, 8.9 Y/C, Rate 70, Sacks 12, Sack % 11%

CJ's WRs - Nico Collins, Robert Woods, Tank Dell + TE Dalton Schultz

CJ's OL - Laremy Tunsil, Josh Jones, Michael Deiter, Shaq Mason, George Fant

CJ's RB - Dameon Pierce

Texans Offense Ranking - 13th (Yards)
Texans Defense Ranking - 16th (Yards)

1st year QB who is throwing for about the same completion % but a lot more yards and has been sacked about the same amount.  CJ's Y/A and Y/C is much higher.  When I look at the players on offense for the Texans, I hardly say, "wow, so much more talent around CJ than what DJ has."

Houston played New England, Miami and the New Orleans Saints.

So what are the reasons the Texans have better passing results through 3 games with a 1st year QB?

[nicky1000]

Through 3 games:

CJ - 78/121 (64.5%) 906 yds, 4 TDs/0 INTs, 7.5 Y/A, 11.6 Y/C, Rate 98, Sacks 11, Sack % 8.3%

DJ - 63/97 (64.9%) 562 yds, 2 TDs/4 INTs 5.8 Y/A, 8.9 Y/C, Rate 70, Sacks 12, Sack % 11%

CJ's WRs - Nico Collins, Robert Woods, Tank Dell + TE Dalton Schultz

CJ's OL - Laremy Tunsil, Josh Jones, Michael Deiter, Shaq Mason, George Fant

CJ's RB - Dameon Pierce

Texans Offense Ranking - 13th (Yards)
Texans Defense Ranking - 16th (Yards)

1st year QB who is throwing for about the same completion % but a lot more yards and has been sacked about the same amount.  CJ's Y/A and Y/C is much higher.  When I look at the players on offense for the Texans, I hardly say, "wow, so much more talent around CJ than what DJ has."

Houston played New England, Miami and the New Orleans Saints.

So what are the reasons the Texans have better passing results through 3 games with a 1st year QB?

1) They played the Ravens, Colts and Jacksonville. Hard to take this seriously when your facts are already not factual.

2) The defense of the 3 correct opponents are middle of the pack to awful. DJ faced the top 1-2 defense in 2 of 3 games and after adjustments lit up the Cards in an epic performance.

3) The Dallas game has to go in the garbage. do you have a blocked field goal for TD. A Barkley key drop which led to a pick 6 and in poor weather. Against Parsons and a team that knew we had to pass at thaf point. Almost any team in week 1 down 14-0 would have been a bit shell shocked except for 3-4 teams.

I gave facts, where are yours?

[DaveBrown74]

Another point to be made about the Texans is that Laremy Tunsil, their star left tackle, has been hurt and has only played in one game this year. So for the most part Stroud has managed these numbers without him.

[DaveBrown74]

1) They played the Ravens, Colts and Jacksonville. Hard to take this seriously when your facts are already not factual.

2) The defense of the 3 correct opponents are middle of the pack to awful. DJ faced the top 1-2 defense in 2 of 3 games and after adjustments lit up the Cards in an epic performance.

3) The Dallas game has to go in the garbage. do you have a blocked field goal for TD. A Barkley key drop which led to a pick 6 and in poor weather. Against Parsons and a team that knew we had to pass at thaf point. Almost any team in week 1 down 14-0 would have been a bit shell shocked except for 3-4 teams.

I gave facts, where are yours?

Sure, let's just throw out an entire game because some bad things happened in it. Should we also throw out games where the opposite is the case? Or do we only throw out the bad ones? I'm interested in this methodology. Wouldn't it be nice if real life worked this way?

[JT39]

Quality of opponents needs to be taken into context.

Just because you haven't heard of his WRs - doesn't make them bad. They're actually better than ours.

I watched the Jacksonville game this weekend, and even with his no name offensive line - he wasn't touched.

Plus 3 games is a very very small sample size.

[T200]

1) They played the Ravens, Colts and Jacksonville. Hard to take this seriously when your facts are already not factual.

2) The defense of the 3 correct opponents are middle of the pack to awful. DJ faced the top 1-2 defense in 2 of 3 games and after adjustments lit up the Cards in an epic performance.

3) The Dallas game has to go in the garbage. do you have a blocked field goal for TD. A Barkley key drop which led to a pick 6 and in poor weather. Against Parsons and a team that knew we had to pass at thaf point. Almost any team in week 1 down 14-0 would have been a bit shell shocked except for 3-4 teams.

I gave facts, where are yours?

Is there a need to be "in your face" with your response??

[MightyGiants]

This thread is a good example of misusing stats. I discussed this very issue a couple of days ago.   By the assumptions that form the claims made, Stroud is better than Burrow.

[Rambo89]

Let's remember Daniel Jones had a good start his rookie season before he tailed off with that Washington game boosted his stats.  Three games isn't a large sample size to compare these two players at the same point in their careers.  I would at least wait until next season to revisit this comparison.

[MightyGiants]

Now that I am at a laptop, I will further expand on some of the issues with this comparison:

First, QB comparisons need to be made through the lens of the 3 supporting pillars of QB play.

Using PFF

Giants

Pass-Blocking- 31st
Receiving- 30th

Defenses faced (needed due to small sample size)

Yardage- 3rd, 4th, 26th
Points- 3rd, 5th, 18th


Houston

Pass-Blocking- 20th
Receiving- 10th

defenses faced

Yards- 10th, 25th, 19th
Points- 8th, 19th, 24th

As for coaching/scheme, I think the season is too young to call one way or the other

[sxdxca38]

Through 3 games:

CJ - 78/121 (64.5%) 906 yds, 4 TDs/0 INTs, 7.5 Y/A, 11.6 Y/C, Rate 98, Sacks 11, Sack % 8.3%

DJ - 63/97 (64.9%) 562 yds, 2 TDs/4 INTs 5.8 Y/A, 8.9 Y/C, Rate 70, Sacks 12, Sack % 11%

CJ's WRs - Nico Collins, Robert Woods, Tank Dell + TE Dalton Schultz

CJ's OL - Laremy Tunsil, Josh Jones, Michael Deiter, Shaq Mason, George Fant

CJ's RB - Dameon Pierce

Texans Offense Ranking - 13th (Yards)
Texans Defense Ranking - 16th (Yards)

1st year QB who is throwing for about the same completion % but a lot more yards and has been sacked about the same amount.  CJ's Y/A and Y/C is much higher.  When I look at the players on offense for the Texans, I hardly say, "wow, so much more talent around CJ than what DJ has."

Houston played New England, Miami and the New Orleans Saints.

So what are the reasons the Texans have better passing results through 3 games with a 1st year QB?

Hi,

Three out of four of DJ's interceptions were balls that were thrown well, but after hitting his receiver's right in the hands, they were popped up right in the air and then picked off.

DJ has also faced two of the top defenses in the league, while CJ has not, that needs to be factored in.

It's a long season and we still have 14 more games to go, let's see how this transpires.

[MightyGiants]

Hi,

Three out of four of DJ's interceptions were balls that were thrown well, but after hitting his receiver's right in the hands, they were popped up right in the air and then picked off.

DJ has also faced two of the top defenses in the league, while CJ has not, that needs to be factored in.

It's a long season and we still have 14 more games to go, let's see how this transpires.

That is a great point. DJ really has thrown only one INT, but he is credited with 4. 

[T200]

That is a great point. DJ really has thrown only one INT, but he is credited with 4. 

The NFL needs to start 'crediting' the receivers with those INTs and not the QB.

[Rambo89]

The NFL needs to start 'crediting' the receivers with those INTs and not the QB.

If that's the case should the NFL not credit bad balls that are thrown that the receiver catches as a completion for the QB?

[T200]

If that's the case should the NFL not credit bad balls that are thrown that the receiver catches as a completion for the QB?

A completion is a completion. Both the QB and receiver get credited for the completion. That's the end goal of a pass. A QB doesn't throw a pass to have it intercepted. If the QB puts the ball in harm's way and it gets intercepted, that's on him. But if the pass is within reach of the intended receiver but the receiver doesn't do HIS job to secure the ball, that's not on the QB.

[Rambo89]

A completion is a completion. Both the QB and receiver get credited for the completion. That's the end goal of a pass. A QB doesn't throw a pass to have it intercepted. If the QB puts the ball in harm's way and it gets intercepted, that's on him. But if the pass is within reach of the intended receiver but the receiver doesn't do HIS job to secure the ball, that's not on the QB.

Point is if you are going to not count something when the receiver doesn't bail out the QB then should the QB get credit when the receiver bails out the QB?  Think it needs to go both ways if you're going to do something like that.