Run concepts the Giants run

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1715053495210909985?s=20

[Philosophers]

Do these week to week variances surprise anyone?  Run concepts based on perceived weakness of defense. 

[Giantleap56]

I'm very dissatisfied with the lack of preparation overall by the coaches. When SB went down it bothered me that they didn't have the next running back ready. If you guys recall the year Ward went down the Giants had Jacobs and Bradshaw ready to go. None of the back ups seem ready to play at a high level. I don't remember having such a huge drop off from starters to backups. I'm starting g to think is Daboll as good as we think he is. He is worse than Joe Judge right now. Preparation is on the coach. I'm not saying fire him I think he deserves another year but he has to get busy. The next man up philosophy doesn't seem to exist here. It seems the next man up is looking for a job somewhere or on another team.

[DaveBrown74]

I'm very dissatisfied with the lack of preparation overall by the coaches. When SB went down it bothered me that they didn't have the next running back ready. If you guys recall the year Ward went down the Giants had Jacobs and Bradshaw ready to go. None of the back ups seem ready to play at a high level. I don't remember having such a huge drop off from starters to backups. I'm starting g to think is Daboll as good as we think he is. He is worse than Joe Judge right now. Preparation is on the coach. I'm not saying fire him I think he deserves another year but he has to get busy. The next man up philosophy doesn't seem to exist here.

Is it lack of preparedness of the backups, or are they just simply not very good?

I feel like ever since we drafted Barkley, since we effectively have all our eggs in him, we have never had much of an investment (either via draft capital or physical capital) in any other RB on the team. Since 2018, when Barkley was drafted, the list of other RBs on this team is not a pretty one. And I think that holds true today, myself.

I look forward to this team hopefully modernizing its approach to this position and having three or four cheaper RBs, mainly on rookie deals, drafting them more frequently in general (but never in the first round), and going with a committee approach. You have fresher legs on the field throughout the game this way, you are much better insulated from injury impact, and you can have stylistic diversity within the room. The way we have gone about it (which is a relic of the Gettleman era) is all wrong.

[Philosophers]

Is it lack of preparedness of the backups, or are they just simply not very good?

I feel like ever since we drafted Barkley, since we effectively have all our eggs in him, we have never had much of an investment (either via draft capital or physical capital) in any other RB on the team. Since 2018, when Barkley was drafted, the list of other RBs on this team is not a pretty one. And I think that holds true today, myself.

I look forward to this team hopefully modernizing its approach to this position and having three or four cheaper RBs, mainly on rookie deals, drafting them more frequently in general (but never in the first round), and going with a committee approach. You have fresher legs on the field throughout the game this way, you are much better insulated from injury impact, and you can have stylistic diversity within the room. The way we have gone about it (which is a relic of the Gettleman era) is all wrong.

To your point, look no farther than the Miami Dolphins.  They have a very good RB in Mostert, yet go out in the 3rd round and draft Achane who has absolutely lit it up in the NFL (unfortunately injured now).  Teams need really good backups to compete and that is not just at RB.

[Ed Vette]

It would be interesting to see the success rate of each concept by game but with all the changes due to injury it may not tell much. One thing I do see is that they are less dominant when they break it up instead of sticking with two concepts as a majority. Especially as in the last game with no continuity due to injury.

Rich, PFF has a graph of runs by direction by team and player. I would break down the team vs Barkley. You could compare that to the inside and outside zone vs man.

[TDToomer]

To your point, look no farther than the Miami Dolphins.  They have a very good RB in Mostert, yet go out in the 3rd round and draft Achane who has absolutely lit it up in the NFL (unfortunately injured now).  Teams need really good backups to compete and that is not just at RB.

And they have steady backup Jeff Wilson ready to come off IR. recall that only Achane was a draftee. so there are other ways to add depth.

The also have 2 of the best WRers in the league and still traded for former starter Claypool. The rich get richer!

[DaveBrown74]

And they have steady backup Jeff Wilson ready to come off IR. recall that only Achane was a draftee. so there are other ways to add depth.

The also have 2 of the best WRers in the league and still traded for former starter Claypool. The rich get richer!

They also did a significant gut job several years ago. Which is something we know the Giants are averse to.

[uconnjack8]

Or perhaps you see a dropoff in the backup RBs because the blocking has been mostly putrid and a RB that is a JAG (just another guy) cannot get it done. 

Matt Breida averaged over 4 YPC prior to this season.  Has his ability dropped off that much since last season?  I guess at 28 it could be the case. Just odd that his production per attempted has basically been halved in an offseason. 

They also did a significant gut job several years ago. Which is something we know the Giants are averse to.

Yes trading guys like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick worked out for Miami.  There have been plenty of teams that have attempted similar things only to land in the same place several years later.  For the Giants to go that route I think they would need to get rid of Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.  Are you suggesting they go that route?

[DaveBrown74]

Yes trading guys like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick worked out for Miami.  There have been plenty of teams that have attempted similar things only to land in the same place several years later.  For the Giants to go that route I think they would need to get rid of Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.  Are you suggesting they go that route?
[/quote]

I'm not suggesting they trade those guys, no. I am suggesting they try to move veterans who are not in their long term plans. McKinney, Adoree Jackson, Barkley, Williams, etc. Jones too although nobody is taking Jones. I appreciate those players won't get the haul that guys like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick did, but why keep them around if they're not going to be here long term? I would get whatever draft capital you can for them.

I also would not be closed to having a conversation about moving Dex, if someone were offering the kitchen sink.

All I'm saying is hanging on to veterans that you probably aren't re-signing if you can get even a 4th or 5th rounder for them makes no sense.

[uconnjack8]

Yes trading guys like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick worked out for Miami.  There have been plenty of teams that have attempted similar things only to land in the same place several years later.  For the Giants to go that route I think they would need to get rid of Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.  Are you suggesting they go that route?


I'm not suggesting they trade those guys, no. I am suggesting they try to move veterans who are not in their long term plans. McKinney, Adoree Jackson, Barkley, Williams, etc. Jones too although nobody is taking Jones. I appreciate those players won't get the haul that guys like Tunsil and Fitzpatrick did, but why keep them around if they're not going to be here long term? I would get whatever draft capital you can for them.

I also would not be closed to having a conversation about moving Dex, if someone were offering the kitchen sink.

All I'm saying is hanging on to veterans that you probably aren't re-signing if you can get even a 4th or 5th rounder for them makes no sense.

All those moves from Miami in 2019 and they have 1 playoff appearance and no playoff wins to show for it.

I am not against trading just about anyone if the price is right.

I do think it's a little early to say Miami has been completely successful in their rebuild.  A good deal of their talent has come from FA and trades.  If they don't get it done this year or next, they may be back to the drawing board.  If they at least reach a championship game I will think its successful beyond being more fun to watch.

[DaveBrown74]

All those moves from Miami in 2019 and they have 1 playoff appearance and no playoff wins to show for it.

I am not against trading just about anyone if the price is right.

I do think it's a little early to say Miami has been completely successful in their rebuild.  A good deal of their talent has come from FA and trades.  If they don't get it done this year or next, they may be back to the drawing board.  If they at least reach a championship game I will think its successful beyond being more fun to watch.

These are all good and valid points. I'm not going to crown them as anything more than an also-ran team as of right now. Still, at the moment at least, they're no doubt one of the best teams in the AFC and NFL for that matter. Fair point though to say that until they do something in the postseason it's not very meaningful.

Again though, all I have really pushed hard for is for the Giants to not live by this mentality where they sacrifice opportunities to be better in the future out of an obsession with maximizing their mediocrity in the present. Look at it this way: we have been a terrible team for all but 2 of the last 10 years. And even in those two years, we were a non-threat in the playoffs. How many times during that stretch have the Giants been bona fide "sellers" at the deadline?

[Giant Obsession]

And they have steady backup Jeff Wilson ready to come off IR. recall that only Achane was a draftee. so there are other ways to add depth.

The also have 2 of the best WRers in the league and still traded for former starter Claypool. The rich get richer!

And the smart also get richer.