Bob Papa on the Mara dynamics

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/SpartanMike96/status/1724267791992402338?s=20

https://x.com/BobPapa_NFL/status/1724269874741190766?s=20


https://x.com/BobPapa_NFL/status/1724271888946561454?s=20


https://x.com/BobPapa_NFL/status/1724273855555137829?s=20

[EDjohnst1981]

That kind of flies in the face of what a number of people believe here.

But what else would you expect out of a company guy?

[MightyGiants]

That kind of flies in the face of what a number of people believe here.

But what else would you expect out of a company guy?

Ed,

Belief, by definition, is a position held without supporting evidence. 

To your fair point about Bob being a company man.  I have followed Bob for many years, from his time on NFL radio to his podcasts with Carl Banks and his Twitter account.  Bob is not one of those company shill types.  He rarely says anything controversial or makes strong statements.   

So, from my perspective, there must be something about these beliefs being espoused by some fans that has motivated Bob strongly enough for him to speak out.   I think that Bob means what he said in this instance.

I will also add that there are people with insider sources (like Mike Lombardi and Chris Bisignano).  They both reported over the summer and at the start of the season that the building (not Mara) was high on Daniel Jones.  Lombardi is close enough to Daboll that Daboll reached out to him for advice when Daboll was deciding between the Dolphins and the Giants.  In a recent podcast, Mike Lombardi suggested that Daboll has been avoiding him because he doesn't want to hear the "truths" Lombardi would tell him like Jones isn't the answer or the team is not talented enough.

[madbadger]

Ed,

Belief, by definition, is a position held without supporting evidence. 

To your fair point about Bob being a company man.  I have followed Bob for many years, from his time on NFL radio to his podcasts with Carl Banks and his Twitter account.  Bob is not one of those company shill types.  He rarely says anything controversial or makes strong statements.   

So, from my perspective, there must be something about these beliefs being espoused by some fans that has motivated Bob strongly enough for him to speak out.   I think that Bob means what he said in this instance.

I will also add that there are people with insider sources (like Mike Lombardi and Chris Bisignano).  They both reported over the summer and at the start of the season that the building (not Mara) was high on Daniel Jones.  Lombardi is close enough to Daboll that Daboll reached out to him for advice when Daboll was deciding between the Dolphins and the Giants.  In a recent podcast, Mike Lombardi suggested that Daboll has been avoiding him because he doesn't want to hear the "truths" Lombardi would tell him like Jones isn't the answer or the team is not talented enough.

But there is plenty of evidence that a) Mara is clearly fond of Jones, he's said so publicly, and b) he has said the Giants have done everything to screw the kid over. 

If you're a first time head coach/GM and know the boss has strong feelings about a player because he has gone out of his way to make those feelings known publicly are you really going to go against him publicly by not extending him? Everyone who follows the Giants was stunned at the overly generous terms of Jones extension. Sure it was their call but to imply that there was no influence from Mara is absurd. I'm not even saying the interference was intentional but it was clearly there.

 

[MightyGiants]

But there is plenty of evidence that a) Mara is clearly fond of Jones, he's said so publicly, and b) he has said the Giants have done everything to screw the kid over. 

If you're a first time head coach/GM and know the boss has strong feelings about a player because he has gone out of his way to make those feelings known publicly are you really going to go against him publicly by not extending him? Everyone who follows the Giants was stunned at the overly generous terms of Jones extension. Sure it was their call but to imply that there was no influence from Mara is absurd. I'm not even saying the interference was intentional but it was clearly there.

Has Mara ever done anything but praise the Giants QBs?  Has any owner ever said publicly said anything negative about their starting QB (with the possible exception of someone like Jerrah)?

Here's the thing, Mara has been around football long enough that sometimes you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.  If you "did everything you can to screw up" a QB prospect you drafted, there will be a point where the damage done is simply not reversible (see David Carr) or could take years to reverse (see Geno Smith).

[TDToomer]

What are the questions or statements that Bob Papa is responding too???

[madbadger]

Has Mara ever done anything but praise the Giants QBs?  Has any owner ever said publicly said anything negative about their starting QB (with the possible exception of someone like Jerrah)?

Here's the thing, Mara has been around football long enough that sometimes you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.  If you "did everything you can to screw up" a QB prospect you drafted, there will be a point where the damage done is simply not reversible (see David Carr) or could take years to reverse (see Geno Smith).

I don't recall Mara ever praising guys like Dave Brown or Danny Kannell. It's one thing to praise a quarterback when he's done a good job and quite another when one has done a bad job and was entering his walk year.

[SlotCorner]

Mara is clearly fond of Jones and has said things to that affect to the press. Does hearing that affect Schoen's decision?

Papa works for the Giants, but I would agree that he is not a rah rah guy. We listen to the postgame on the way home from every game. He praises them after a win, but he also rips them after losses.

We'll never know the extent of Mara's involvement unless someone like Judge comes out and talks about it, but the Maras have some juice in this league.

The problem is that the extension of Jones made sense, especially when you factor in front loading the contract. Unfortunately, it also can be seen as a compromise between what Schoen wanted (get rid of Jones) and what Mara wanted.

[Ed Vette]

Mara sealed that perception the day he fired McAdoo in season and replaced him with Spags. When he claims the Offense is broken and Gilbride retires and Tom Coughlin doesn't shake his hand or look him in the eye at his final press conference, it highlights that conspiracy theories in Chat Rooms aren't created in a vacuum.

I love Bob Papa but he's coming to the rescue in an obvious way and disrespectful to a good portion of the fan base that doesn't have the wool pulled over their eyes.

MB makes a good point. I worked for an owner for 25 years and reported directly to him. He preached autonomy but he made his point in subtle ways and you better had to have compelling reasons to put your credibility on the line. Because if you're wrong too many times, your job is on the line.

[DaveBrown74]

I agree wholeheartedly with MadBadger. As long as the owner has opinions and expresses them openly, he is going to have some element of influence, whether intentional or not. Some GMs will resist it better than others. But that influence is going to be there. It's human nature.

Forget about players for a minute. What do you think Mara's response would be if Joe Schoen said in an internal high level staff meeting that he had decided that it was time to move on from Ronnie Barnes. Would Mara just say "ok, no problem, great, go ahead and do that, what is the next item of business?"

I get that there is a difference between Ronnie Barnes and a player. But it's still a NY Football Giants personnel decision that directly impacts what happens on the field. And it's a situation where emotions are involved. Unless one thinks that the GM has carte blanche to fire Ronnie Barnes tomorrow, it's kind of hard to buy the idea that any GM faces ZERO meddling from Mara - intentional or unintentional - on player decisions. That just doesn't add up. It may be totally unintentional, but it's definitely there given that Mara has clear opinions and airs them regularly.

[H-Town G-Fan]

Mara sealed that perception the day he fired McAdoo in season and replaced him with Spags. When he claims the Offense is broken and Gilbride retires and Tom Coughlin doesn't shake his hand or look him in the eye at his final press conference, it highlights that conspiracy theories in Chat Rooms aren't created in a vacuum.

I love Bob Papa but he's coming to the rescue in an obvious way and disrespectful a good portion of the fan base that doesn't have the wool pulled over their eyes.

MB makes a good point. I worked for an owner for 25 years and reported directly to him. He preached autonomy but he made his point in subtle ways and you better had to have compelling reasons to put your credibility on the line. Because if you're wrong too many times, your job is on the line.

I would also say that if Mara felt comfortable expressing such support for Jones publicly, why would he be as and/or more restrained in interactions with Schoen? Let's think critically about this.

[MightyGiants]

I don't recall Mara ever praising guys like Dave Brown or Danny Kannell. It's one thing to praise a quarterback when he's done a good job and quite another when one has done a bad job and was entering his walk year.

I don't think John Mara was the owner when Dave Brown or Danny Kannell were the QB of the Giants.

[AZGiantFan]

Mara sealed that perception the day he fired McAdoo in season and replaced him with Spags. When he claims the Offense is broken and Gilbride retires and Tom Coughlin doesn't shake his hand or look him in the eye at his final press conference, it highlights that conspiracy theories in Chat Rooms aren't created in a vacuum.

I love Bob Papa but he's coming to the rescue in an obvious way and disrespectful to a good portion of the fan base that doesn't have the wool pulled over their eyes.

MB makes a good point. I worked for an owner for 25 years and reported directly to him. He preached autonomy but he made his point in subtle ways and you better had to have compelling reasons to put your credibility on the line. Because if you're wrong too many times, your job is on the line.

The fact is that the fans have this belief because they are judging based on Mara's actions, not his words, some of which you've outlined above.  And even his words haven't been particularly subtle.  He doesn't have to intervene directly in a decision, all he has to do is create an atmosphere where it is clear what he wants the decision to be.  He's surrounded by yes men and much as I like Papa and Banks, and the rest of the in-house crew, that is what they all are.

[madbadger]

I don't think John Mara was the owner when Dave Brown or Danny Kannell were the QB of the Giants.

His father was and he was involved with the day to day operation of the franchise. If Wellington was smart enough to keep his mouth shut about Brown and Kannell that John should have been taking notes. What makes his comments particularly egregious is he grew up in the NFL. I expect guys like Jones and Snyder who bought their franchises to shoot from their hips, Mara on the other hand should have known better.

[Ed Vette]

The fact is that the fans have this belief because they are judging based on Mara's actions, not his words, some of which you've outlined above.  And even his words haven't been particularly subtle.  He doesn't have to intervene directly in a decision, all he has to do is create an atmosphere where it is clear what he wants the decision to be.  He's surrounded by yes men and much as I like Papa and Banks, and the rest of the in-house crew, that is what they all are.

Mara also strikes me as someone who doesn't hide their body language and any executive at this level will be a keen reader of Body language. The GM makes a statement and he can pick up on how it was received in an instant. It can be as subtle as that. If I can do it, I know Schoen can do it. You don't survive swimming with sharks if you can't.