Bob Papa on the Mara dynamics

[MightyGiants]

His father was and he was involved with the day to day operation of the franchise. If Wellington was smart enough to keep his mouth shut about Brown and Kannell that John should have been taking notes. What makes his comments particularly egregious is he grew up in the NFL. I expect guys like Jones and Snyder who bought their franchises and were outsiders Mara should have known better.

If memory serves, Wellington Mara rarely if ever spoke to the press.  So I am not sure what conclusions can be drawn from not hearing anything positive said about any Giants QB from Wellington.  Hell, I don't recall Wellington saying anything good about Phil Simms either.

[Uni]

C'mon man, Schoen may have final say, but Papa is acting like Mara has no input in the decisions that are made. He's clearly in the room, he clearly has influence on the final decisions.

The way the contract is structured really feels like Schoen gave Jones a contract that he could back away from. $40 mil AAVE is a lot unless you consider they spent a few more dollars to engineer an escape hatch.

[MightyGiants]

Mara sealed that perception the day he fired McAdoo in season and replaced him with Spags. When he claims the Offense is broken and Gilbride retires and Tom Coughlin doesn't shake his hand or look him in the eye at his final press conference, it highlights that conspiracy theories in Chat Rooms aren't created in a vacuum.

I love Bob Papa but he's coming to the rescue in an obvious way and disrespectful to a good portion of the fan base that doesn't have the wool pulled over their eyes.

MB makes a good point. I worked for an owner for 25 years and reported directly to him. He preached autonomy but he made his point in subtle ways and you better had to have compelling reasons to put your credibility on the line. Because if you're wrong too many times, your job is on the line.

Bob Papa has been with the Giants long enough to have a pretty good idea of what's going on.  So there are two possibilities:

1)  Bob Papa is disrespectful towards the fans who espouse conspiracy theories about John Mara that he knows are correct, because he was asked or wishes to curry favor.

OR

2) Bob Papa is angry at the fans espousing the conspiracy theories about Mara, because he knows they are untrue.

[Jclayton92]

All I saw in that from Lombardi is that we could have had Mike McDaniels if Daboll went to Miami. I like McDaniels a lot as a coach.

[DaveBrown74]

Bob Papa has been with the Giants long enough to have a pretty good idea of what's going on.  So there are two possibilities:

1)  Bob Papa is disrespectful towards the fans who espouse conspiracy theories about John Mara that he knows are correct, because he was asked or wishes to curry favor.

OR

2) Bob Papa is angry at the fans espousing the conspiracy theories about Mara, because he knows they are untrue.

Or John Papa simply has a view on precisely what happens behind closed doors with the team, which he firmly believes to be true despite knowing for sure (he may know a lot but he is not involved in high level team meetings and never has been), and he's essentially putting down anyone who has an alternative theory.

He's well within his rights to do that, and he may in fact be correct in his theory, but I don't think his claim of precisely what happens behind closed doors in Giants meetings and what the precise dynamics and internal politics are, down to all the subtleties and nuances, should be taken as gospel myself.

[Ed Vette]

Bob Papa has been with the Giants long enough to have a pretty good idea of what's going on.  So there are two possibilities:

1)  Bob Papa is disrespectful towards the fans who espouse conspiracy theories about John Mara that he knows are correct, because he was asked or wishes to curry favor.

OR

2) Bob Papa is angry at the fans espousing the conspiracy theories about Mara, because he knows they are untrue.

Papa wasn't in on any of those closed-door meetings either. Keeping him informed is not a priority. The word that gets passed down is what they want him to hear. Any discussion between Mara and Schoen is not shared with Papa. Now, I'd like to hear what Gettleman and Reese have to say about this as long as their version isn't in their best interests.

[madbadger]

If memory serves, Wellington Mara rarely if ever spoke to the press.  So I am not sure what conclusions can be drawn from not hearing anything positive said about any Giants QB from Wellington.  Hell, I don't recall Wellington saying anything good about Phil Simms either.

That's the point. Owners shouldn't be talking about individual players as it creates undue influence. IMHO an owner should state publicly that it's his job to be concerned with the big picture and that all individual personnel decisions are the sole domain of GM. You really think any GM is gonna recommend firing Ronnie Barnes after the love Mara showered on him in public? It ties your GM's hands.

[DaveBrown74]

That's the point. Owners shouldn't be talking about individual players as it creates undue influence. IMHO an owner should state publicly that he it's his job to be concerned with the big picture and that all individual personnel decisions are the sole domain of GM. You really think any GM is gonna recommend firing Ronnie Barnes after the love Mara showered on him in public? It ties your GM's hands.

Just out of curiosity, what is your best guess as to what happened with the 2017 Eli benching decision that ended his consecutive games streak? Do you think that was proposed to Mara and he gave it the OK? Or do you think McAdoo (and perhaps Reese) just proceeded with doing it and didn't even seek approval?

I ask, because given how emotional and loyal Mara seems to certain people, it is peculiar that he would have OK'd something like that when the team was 2-9. And if he didn't approve it and they just went ahead and did it without even asking him or telling him, then that kind of backs up the claim that coaches/GMs do whatever they think is right, even if Mara himself isn't a fan of the decision.

[Ed Vette]

Just out of curiosity, what is your best guess as to what happened with the 2017 Eli benching decision that ended his consecutive games streak? Do you think that was proposed to Mara and he gave it the OK? Or do you think McAdoo (and perhaps Reese) just proceeded with doing it and didn't even seek approval?

I ask, because given how emotional and loyal Mara seems to certain people, it is peculiar that he would have OK'd something like that when the team was 2-9. And if he didn't approve it and they just went ahead and did it without even asking him or telling him, then that kind of backs up the claim that coaches/GMs do whatever they think is right, even if Mara himself isn't a fan of the decision.

McAdoo made a decision and I believe Reese went along with it. I find it hard to believe that Reese wouldn't run it by Mara. I think he did and Mara said he disagreed but stepped aside. When the fan base and Eli didn't have his finest moment, Mara placated the fan base. When he should have stood up for his HC. Geno had a decent first game which turned out to be his last.

[madbadger]

Just out of curiosity, what is your best guess as to what happened with the 2017 Eli benching decision that ended his consecutive games streak? Do you think that was proposed to Mara and he gave it the OK? Or do you think McAdoo (and perhaps Reese) just proceeded with doing it and didn't even seek approval?

I ask, because given how emotional and loyal Mara seems to certain people, it is peculiar that he would have OK'd something like that when the team was 2-9. And if he didn't approve it and they just went ahead and did it without even asking him or telling him, then that kind of backs up the claim that coaches/GMs do whatever they think is right, even if Mara himself isn't a fan of the decision.

Unlike his feelings about Jones he never made his feelings about Eli's benching public. I'm sure it didn't sit right with him and it probably made him sick to his stomach but beyond that I don't want to speculate.

[TDToomer]

McAdoo made a decision and I believe Reese went along with it. I find it hard to believe that Reese wouldn't run it by Mara. I think he did and Mara said he disagreed but stepped aside. When the fan base and Eli didn't have his finest moment, Mara placated the fan base. When he should have stood up for his HC. Geno had a decent first game which turned out to be his last.

Spot on. Mara listened to an outraged WFAN host and his pitchfork carrying followers and should have let McAdoo finish out the season with Geno or Webb. The Giants still lost the final 4 games with Spags and Eli.

[andrew_nyGiants]

We can discuss semantics until we're Giants Blue in the face, but the common denominator through the cavalcade of HC'S & GM'S since Tommy Coughlin was scapegoated in 2015 are the Maras.

We haven't been (forget winning) a respectable franchise since.


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[NY47GIANTS]

" ... Tom Coughlin doesn't shake his hand or look him in the eye at his final press conference ... "

That was the eye opener for me. Seeing Eli sobbing the way he was. You just knew...

[kartanoman]

Spot on. Mara listened to an outraged WFAN host and his pitchfork carrying followers and should have let McAdoo finish out the season with Geno or Webb. The Giants still lost the final 4 games with Spags and Eli.

Not entirely true. The Giants defeated the Redskins, 18-10, to close out the dreary season it was. Just a splattered disaster when it was all over with nobody wearing red, white and blue spared. The scary part was that even darker seasons lay ahead, and we don't even know if this season will reach new lows.

Y'all sure know how to depress a generally happy-go-lucky person, you know! Thank goodness for the Rangers and my AFL Premiers the Collingwood Magpies or I'd be jumping out the window after hitting POST.

Peace!

[kartanoman]

I agree wholeheartedly with MadBadger. As long as the owner has opinions and expresses them openly, he is going to have some element of influence, whether intentional or not. Some GMs will resist it better than others. But that influence is going to be there. It's human nature.

Forget about players for a minute. What do you think Mara's response would be if Joe Schoen said in an internal high level staff meeting that he had decided that it was time to move on from Ronnie Barnes. Would Mara just say "ok, no problem, great, go ahead and do that, what is the next item of business?"

I get that there is a difference between Ronnie Barnes and a player. But it's still a NY Football Giants personnel decision that directly impacts what happens on the field. And it's a situation where emotions are involved. Unless one thinks that the GM has carte blanche to fire Ronnie Barnes tomorrow, it's kind of hard to buy the idea that any GM faces ZERO meddling from Mara - intentional or unintentional - on player decisions. That just doesn't add up. It may be totally unintentional, but it's definitely there given that Mara has clear opinions and airs them regularly.

Not to get into any debate, but to ask a serious question, take a look at the Giants Front Office Roster and tell me is Ronnie Barnes' organization is a subordinate to Football Operations, or does it report directly to the CEO / Board of Directors? You have the other Functional organizations which wouldn't report to Football Ops, such as Finance, Marketing, Business Intelligence, etc. Has the organizational chart ever been publicly delineated before?

Just curious with no other inference intended.

Thanks!