Good to get a win but

[Brooklyn Dave]

I can't stand a QB who can't pass and relies on RPO and running. Having an edge is great. Having a tackle is great but it is not in the realm of a franchise QB which is an elite prospect.

Winning games at this point means jones still gets tone qb here which is pretty much means I have better things to do on Sunday at this point.

There are a lot of things you can do on a Sunday instead. You could go bowling , if the weather is nice , pickleball, take a nice long drive , go to the Bronx Zoo, The Botanical Guardens , go to a movie !!!

[Woody]

Giants 3.5 underdogs at home against Pats


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shadowspinner0]

You are a fan and you want your team to win. I remember the 2020 draft when fans were so upset that we won a game and no longer had the second pick  and we would not be able to draft Chris Young , ( Everyone knew Joe Burrow was going first to the Bengels ). WE had to settle for Andrew Thomas with the fourth pick.

Winning builds character

The same way the Jets won two meaningless games against the Rams and Browns the next year and settled for the 2nd pick to draft.....Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence.   

[Doc16LT56]

The same way the Jets won two meaningless games against the Rams and Browns the next year and settled for the 2nd pick to draft.....Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence. 

Good point. For every example of draft position not mattering, there is an example of draft position mattering a lot. I'll never understand why people think drafting later doesn't have any impact on a team's likelihood of drafting a franchise QB.

[DaveBrown74]

Giants 3.5 underdogs at home against Pats


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Belichick is famous for owning rookie QBs, including ones who go on to become competent starters for the rest of their careers.

We'll see if that trend holds up in this game, with the Pats clearly needing a new QB in the next draft.

[DaveBrown74]

Good point. For every example of draft position not mattering, there is an example of draft position mattering a lot. I'll never understand why people think drafting later doesn't have any impact on a team's likelihood of drafting a franchise QB.

People love to emphasize the occasional exception over the overwhelmingly large sample, as if that somehow disproves that the much larger set of data is convincing.

I don't understand it either. But plenty do it, that's for sure. They think because of Brady, Russell Wilson, and a handful of others, that means it doesn't matter if you pick your QB in the top 5 versus the 3rd-7th round. It's all the same odds and an equal "crapshoot" merely because of the existence of those handful of outliers over the past few decades.

[uconnjack8]

People love to emphasize the occasional exception over the overwhelmingly large sample, as if that somehow disproves that the much larger set of data is convincing.

I don't understand it either. But plenty do it, that's for sure. They think because of Brady, Russell Wilson, and a handful of others, that means it doesn't matter if you pick your QB in the top 5 versus the 3rd-7th round. It's all the same odds and an equal "crapshoot" merely because of the existence of those handful of outliers over the past few decades.

I think it's more than a handful of times the 1st QB taken was not the best.  I am not saying I would rather pick later, but I think the data says when there is one great prospect (e.g. Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence) that is clearly above the others it usually makes big difference.  On other years, or the handful of outliers as you put it (e.g, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) the draft order has not been a decider of who got a franchise QB. 

Again, I agree if you are looking for a franchise QB it's better to draft earlier, but to me it looks like the exception is the years that there is one clear best QB.  I think this year will be much more debatable in terms of who is the best prospect and the outcome for the QBs might be more dependent on where they go and how the team builds around them. 

What I can't understand is that people seem to think that the players are just going to lay down and tank because fans think its the best for the team long-term. 

[EDjohnst1981]

At that point in time we weren't looking for a new QB, so it's not really the best comparison. When you can draft pure BPA it's different than when you clearly need a new QB to take the franchise forward. Unless you're of the view that you want to build around Daniel Jones moving forward and that he's proven himself to be the team's franchise QB long term.

As for "winning builds character", I think this is questionable. I mean we "won" last year and what did that do for us moving forward? We also won in 2016 (11-5 record), and then 2017 was literally one of the most disgraceful, catastrophic years in the history of the franchise. I know people like to believe that winning has some sort of carry-over effect, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence of it. Plus we're not "winning" this year. We're 3-8.

Further, if anything, people tend to say that character is built during times of adversity and that the true worth of a person is how they respond to tough times, not good times. Which kind of flies directly in the face of the claim that "winning builds character."

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my own is that I have concluded this whole "winning culture" cliche is a bunch of BS. You have a "winning culture" when you're winning a lot of games, and you win a lot of games by having the best possible players. Simple as that. I don't know why we try to mystify that concept into winning being some sort of surreal force in the air. It's about the caliber of talent you're putting on the field, and there is no position that is more important than QB.

This is the best post I have read in a long time.

[Gmo11]

I think it's more than a handful of times the 1st QB taken was not the best.  I am not saying I would rather pick later, but I think the data says when there is one great prospect (e.g. Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence) that is clearly above the others it usually makes big difference.  On other years, or the handful of outliers as you put it (e.g, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) the draft order has not been a decider of who got a franchise QB. 

Again, I agree if you are looking for a franchise QB it's better to draft earlier, but to me it looks like the exception is the years that there is one clear best QB.  I think this year will be much more debatable in terms of who is the best prospect and the outcome for the QBs might be more dependent on where they go and how the team builds around them. 

What I can't understand is that people seem to think that the players are just going to lay down and tank because fans think its the best for the team long-term. 

Caleb Williams will be the #1 pick in this draft regardless of who has it. If someone trades up for it...it will be to take Caleb Williams. This is a great QB class, that's true, but it does indeed have a clear #1 guy and it's Williams.

[uconnjack8]

Caleb Williams will be the #1 pick in this draft regardless of who has it. If someone trades up for it...it will be to take Caleb Williams. This is a great QB class, that's true, but it does indeed have a clear #1 guy and it's Williams.

Not so sure about that.  It's not just about film but about interviews and the whole mental/emotional aspect that can make a difference this year. 

I think some of the online scouting media is already putting Maye ahead of Williams. 

[TDToomer]

Giants 3.5 underdogs at home against Pats


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What? How? and Why? The Patriots are one of the worst teams in the entire NFL.

[Doc16LT56]

Not so sure about that.  It's not just about film but about interviews and the whole mental/emotional aspect that can make a difference this year. 

I think some of the online scouting media is already putting Maye ahead of Williams. 

Rich Eisen explains it better than I can.

https://youtu.be/cspenpIkOfA?si=orQZ4l0Su5q6GgNu

[Bob In PA]

What? How? and Why? The Patriots are one of the worst teams in the entire NFL.

TD: DeVito.

[uconnjack8]

Rich Eisen explains it better than I can.

https://youtu.be/cspenpIkOfA?si=orQZ4l0Su5q6GgNu

I wasn't referencing any of this stuff as to why teams may draft someone else higher.  The noise of the pre-draft stuff is nonsense.  The conversations that are had with GMs and HCs and owners is more of what I was mentioning.  Williams may do great in that regard and show another reason why he should be the #1 pick.  I don't know him or any of the other prospects and either do any of the people in this forum.  When telling the story of drafting Manning over Leaf, Bill Polian mentions that even the scouts only have about 80% of the information.  That's more of where my point lies.  There is a lot of unknowns about all these prospects when it comes to their mental makeup.

It's great that Eisen has strong feelings about Williams, and he may be right, but I don't think a chasm exists between he and some other prospects in this draft like there was from Trevor Lawrence to Zach Wilson. 

[T200]

The same way the Jets won two meaningless games against the Rams and Browns the next year and settled for the 2nd pick to draft.....Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence.   

They chose to settle for Zach Wilson. That's their mistake and has absolutely nothing to do with winning late games or their draft position.