Questions

[Philosophers]

Bigger needs this offseason:

Edge opposite Thibs or DT to replace Leo?

CB to replace Adoree or a S?

Tall, big target with at least speed X WR to be WR1 or a 6'0" speedier X WR to be WR1?

RB who is better as an inside runner or outside runner?

Starting caliber OG or effective swing tackle as our OTs continue to miss time?

[andrew_nyGiants]

Bigger needs this offseason:

Edge opposite Thibs or DT to replace Leo?
EDGE-you can never have enough of them.

CB to replace Adoree or a S?
CORNER - see Edge

Tall, big target with at least speed X WR to be WR1 or a 6'0" speedier X WR to be WR1?
Marvin Harrison Jr.

RB who is better as an inside runner or outside runner?
Neither....better interior blocking

Starting caliber OG or effective swing tackle as our OTs continue to miss time?
Starting VETERAN OG and a STUD OL COACH

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[DaveBrown74]

Edge opposite Thibs or DT to replace Leo?

I'd have to say DT (or 3-4 DE) to replace Leo. Close though. But knowing how important D line is, and seeing how we not only need to replace Leo but really have no depth, I think that's a must. The only thing I'd say counter to this is, while you're not getting a Jalen Carter or Aaron Donald outside of the first round most likely, DT can be more than sufficiently addressed at a pretty solid level in rounds 2 or 3. EDGE gets tougher after the top 50.

CB to replace Adoree or a S?

I do think we have some intriguing young guys outside of Banks, but assuming we don't re-sign Adoree that's a big loss. Safety I feel like we have enough options, as I tend to assume they're keeping McKinney. Is Flott capable of being a full time boundary starter next year?

Tall, big target with at least speed X WR to be WR1 or a 6'0" speedier X WR to be WR1?

Normally I'd say tall big target although the most explosive offense in the league has two smaller, speed demons (Hill and Waddle), so I'm not sure. We definitely need another wide receiver, but I just want the best available. All things equal I'd take a bigger guy, but I wouldn't pass up a Waddle type if he's the best available.

RB who is better as an inside runner or outside runner?

We don't really have a downhill power guy on the team right now, so I'd say the former.

Starting caliber OG or effective swing tackle as our OTs continue to miss time?

We frankly need both. I think OG is something that can be addressed as late as day three, and you can find good ones that late. I don't personally want to use yet another top 10 pick on an OT, but it's hard to find even a sufficiently good swing tackle beyond rounds 3/4. So I guess I'd say another tackle, but we definitely need at least one guard upgrade. I feel like there are no good guards on the team. There are a couple passable ones but nobody that I feel really good about. And there's certainly no depth.

[Bob In PA]

Bigger needs this offseason:

Edge opposite Thibs or DT to replace Leo?  EDGE is a bigger need, IMO, because our depth at DT is better than at EDGE.

CB to replace Adoree or a S?  Safety, because they have the option of keeping Adore (unless he asks to leave).

Tall, big target with at least speed X WR to be WR1 or a 6'0" speedier X WR to be WR1? Depends what they REALLY think of Hyatt as of the end of the season.

RB who is better as an inside runner or outside runner?  If Saquon stays, inside. If not, then outside unless they decide to use Robinson a lot more (and in more capacities) than they have shown thus far.

Starting caliber OG or effective swing tackle as our OTs continue to miss time?  Starting guard is much hard to get than backup tackle, so IMO the guard is more important.

Bob

[Jclayton92]

1.Edge opposite Thibodeaux because the interior guys eat space. Would love Chop Robinson here.

2. Safety absolutely in my opinion because I like Banks and Hawkins on the outside in year 2 with Flott in the slot. The problem is that I believe wink doesn't value the safety position. Give me a Kamren Kinchens or Mukuba from Clemson in the 3rd.

3. Big Bodied monster to pair with Hyatt and Robinson. All 3 would offer something completely different. I think adding a Brian Thomas, or whichever top Wr slips to the 2nd.

4. I think we hold off until 2025 for a true premium RB like Judkins but would love to grab a quick back in the 5th-6th rd.

5. I think tackles are set for us with Thomas/Neal and Phillips being 0T3. So I'd take a 4th-7th rd RG to compete with Mckethan, Ezeudu, Pugh, and Brederson for 2 guard spots. I also would like to see 1 FA signing.

[Philosophers]

I tend to lean on Edge as I think we have rotational depth to help at DT though Maason Smith from LSU would be intriguing at DT.

I think McKinney will be an UFA and believe we may lose him so we'll need a replacement Safety.  Cole Bishop from Utah looks to be a potential replacement.

Brian Thomas is really getting my attention as a big WR and I may starting to like him as much as Nabers.

I would be happy to wait until 2025 for a RB though a late rounder with real catching skills like Donovan Edwards out of Michigan provided he's a 5th rounder and no lower.

In the Guard vs Swing Tackle, I side with a starting Guard and believe we can get one cheaply.  Zak Zinter is my fav for RG and with his tibia/fibula break, he may slide to 4th round.

[Painter]

As long as DJ is fully recovered by not much later than the first minicamp, he will be the Giants starting QB in '24, the Draft and/or Tommy DeVito notwithstanding. That will be a necessity dictated by not so common dollars and cents.

With that in mind, it is my view that the Giants' No.1 priority will be/ must be to do whatever it takes in FA and/or the Draft and possibly including Bye Bye! Bobby Johnson so they won't again repeat what through 12 games has been a League's worst performing/ last ranked, QB-battered, Offense-crippling and thus truly "Offensive" Line.

Cheers!

[Jclayton92]

I'm not sure the offensive line play has been any worse than the Qb play. Yes because of injury the line was bad, and hasn't been great, but the Qb play has been absolutely horrible just as long as the oline.

I think Schoen and Daboll would lose significant credibility if they put Jones back out there next season.

[katkavage]

I'm not sure the offensive line play has been any worse than the Qb play. Yes because of injury the line was bad, and hasn't been great, but the Qb play has been absolutely horrible just as long as the oline.

I think Schoen and Daboll would lose significant credibility if they put Jones back out there next season.

That could be but the owner might be happy. I think Schoen has to exercise his control. It won't be easy but his reputation is in the line.

[Painter]

I'm not sure the offensive line play has been any worse than the Qb play. Yes because of injury the line was bad, and hasn't been great, but the Qb play has been absolutely horrible just as long as the oline.

I think Schoen and Daboll would lose significant credibility if they put Jones back out there next season.

It seems clear that you and I see it very differently, Jess. With due respect, I suspect that your view is askew due to your anti-Jones bias, a consequence of which is to minimize, mitigate, or deflect from the fact that the Giants Oline through 12 games has been among the worst in pass blocking in NFL history.

We aren't just looking at a team ranked last in both Total and Passing Offense (in yards and in scoring, both total and per game) but also and more than incidentally- more like outrageous- an NFL leading 54 sacks, 183 pressures allowed, the last time I looked while gagging.

As I suggested above, I wouldn't be surprised to see them change Oline Coaches at season's end even though I'm not sure that any of the Olinemen other than Thomas, Schmitz (and for now, Evan Neal) are worth keeping.

Still, it won't have anything to do with whether a healthy Daniel Jones will be the Giants starting QB in '2024. We can take it from Joe Schoen, he will be. It is, for no other reason that based on his 10 win including a Road PO game and a NFL's 6th best QBR in 2022 that they signed him to new 4 year deal for which they must pay him no less than $35 million guaranteed next season, healthy or not.

Of course, with only Tommy "Cutlets" DeVito there as backup, it does seem likely that whether or not they add a FA, they also may add someone in the Draft. Still, even if they end up picking in the 5 to 8 range, I'd be surprised if they used it on one of the current 3 or 4 highly-rated QBs.

In any event, whatever they do, they had damn-well better FIX that Division 2 Oline before it butchers another QB and season.

Cheers!

[Jclayton92]

It seems clear that you and I see it very differently, Jess. With due respect, I suspect that your view is askew due to your anti-Jones bias, a consequence of which is to minimize, mitigate, or deflect from the fact that the Giants Oline through 12 games has been among the worst in pass blocking in NFL history.

We aren't just looking at a team ranked last in both Total and Passing Offense (in yards and in scoring, both total and per game) but also and more than incidentally- more like outrageous- an NFL leading 54 sacks, 183 pressures allowed, the last time I looked while gagging.

As I suggested above, I wouldn't be surprised to see them change Oline Coaches at season's end even though I'm not sure that any of the Olinemen other than Thomas, Schmitz (and for now, Evan Neal) are worth keeping.

Still, it won't have anything to do with whether a healthy Daniel Jones will be the Giants starting QB in '2024. We can take it from Joe Schoen, he will be. It is, for no other reason that based on his 10 win including a Road PO game and a NFL's 6th best QBR in 2022 that they signed him to new 4 year deal for which they must pay him no less than $35 million guaranteed next season, healthy or not.

Of course, with only Tommy "Cutlets" DeVito there as backup, it does seem likely that whether or not they add a FA, they also may add someone in the Draft. Still, even if they end up picking in the 5 to 8 range, I'd be surprised if they used it on one of the current 3 or 4 highly-rated QBs.

In any event, whatever they do, they had damn-well better FIX that Division 2 Oline before it butchers another QB and season.

Cheers!

I know you and others at times have said myself and others were Jones haters or had an anti-Jones bias. It may have even been funny or cute to many at some point but now the reality is that Jones is not a good Qb. It's just easier to say that I had some bias instead of saying oh no you and a few others were correct on Jones while the majority of the board was fanboying and being incorrect about the current Qbs ability. But sure if me not wanting my favorite team to sign a bad Qb to an even worse contract is bias then I'll take it.

You automatically assumed I was referring to Jones that you must have misread what I actually wrote. I said that the line has been bad because of injury, which is true it has been awful but when I was referring to Qb play I was referring to all 3 Qbs this season that have started. None of which have gone out and done anything but the bare minimum.

When healthy the baseline for the offensive line was set at the end of last year, they were at least average to above average to finish the year. Yes they've been destroyed by injury all year but at minimum they have the potential to be average, can anyone say that about the Qb play? We have 4 high draft picks either in year 1 or year 2 with the team on the line, they have to give the players time to develop. They same cannot be said about the Qb position.

Schoen saying Jones is the starter next year at the end of November means absolutely nothing. Yes, it's a factual statement because Tyrod is a FA and that only leaves Devito, so of course he is the starter right now. I imagine that changes drastically by the start of the summer.

[ralphpal1]

We have so much but at the same time have so little
We.need so much but at the same time if we hit on a QB it can get fix so fast
Our WRs should be good
A better QB might help the line get better
But then again
We still.need so much
Decisons
Decisons

[Painter]

I know you and others at times have said myself and others were Jones haters or had an anti-Jones bias. It may have even been funny or cute to many at some point but now the reality is that Jones is not a good Qb. It's just easier to say that I had some bias instead of saying oh no you and a few others were correct on Jones while the majority of the board was fanboying and being incorrect about the current Qbs ability. But sure if me not wanting my favorite team to sign a bad Qb to an even worse contract is bias then I'll take it.

You automatically assumed I was referring to Jones that you must have misread what I actually wrote. I said that the line has been bad because of injury, which is true it has been awful but when I was referring to Qb play I was referring to all 3 Qbs this season that have started. None of which have gone out and done anything but the bare minimum.

When healthy the baseline for the offensive line was set at the end of last year, they were at least average to above average to finish the year. Yes they've been destroyed by injury all year but at minimum they have the potential to be average, can anyone say that about the Qb play? We have 4 high draft picks either in year 1 or year 2 with the team on the line, they have to give the players time to develop. They same cannot be said about the Qb position.

Schoen saying Jones is the starter next year at the end of November means absolutely nothing. Yes, it's a factual statement because Tyrod is a FA and that only leaves Devito, so of course he is the starter right now. I imagine that changes drastically by the start of the summer.

I don't think I have misread a single word of yours nor do I believe that I have misinterpreted your intention. We are, of course, entitled always to our own opinions whether or not bias-laden.  We are not, however, entitled to our own facts. There are, of course, times when an assertion is tantamount to a statement of fact. Both of us may be guilty of that although it is something better to avoid if possible.

When it comes to my strongly held belief concerning the Giants woeful QB non-assisting or protecting Oline despite the supporting objective data, it is indeed just my opinion. However, when it comes to Daniel Jones's status as the Giants starting QB next year, it is not my opinion but that of Joe Schoen for the very compelling reasons given, like it or not.



Cheers!

[nicky1000]

It seems clear that you and I see it very differently, Jess. With due respect, I suspect that your view is askew due to your anti-Jones bias, a consequence of which is to minimize, mitigate, or deflect from the fact that the Giants Oline through 12 games has been among the worst in pass blocking in NFL history.

We aren't just looking at a team ranked last in both Total and Passing Offense (in yards and in scoring, both total and per game) but also and more than incidentally- more like outrageous- an NFL leading 54 sacks, 183 pressures allowed, the last time I looked while gagging.

As I suggested above, I wouldn't be surprised to see them change Oline Coaches at season's end even though I'm not sure that any of the Olinemen other than Thomas, Schmitz (and for now, Evan Neal) are worth keeping.

Still, it won't have anything to do with whether a healthy Daniel Jones will be the Giants starting QB in '2024. We can take it from Joe Schoen, he will be. It is, for no other reason that based on his 10 win including a Road PO game and a NFL's 6th best QBR in 2022 that they signed him to new 4 year deal for which they must pay him no less than $35 million guaranteed next season, healthy or not.

Of course, with only Tommy "Cutlets" DeVito there as backup, it does seem likely that whether or not they add a FA, they also may add someone in the Draft. Still, even if they end up picking in the 5 to 8 range, I'd be surprised if they used it on one of the current 3 or 4 highly-rated QBs.

In any event, whatever they do, they had damn-well better FIX that Division 2 Oline before it butchers another QB and season.

Cheers!

I've been a major Jones proponent. I always yearned to see him have receivers to throw to and an O-line to protect him. That said, this is the NFL. You're never going to have the perfect suite of players to complement you. With the cap, you may have some deficiencies at WR or be missing a much needed guard/tackle. And yet, I've seen across the league that the good QBs make do with what they have and flourish. Jones does not have those intangibles. He looked mechanical and rigid. Something just did not click this year and he seemed off from the first game and never really recovered (outside of Zona in the 2nd half).

Tommy D may not be Brock Purdy but he has shown that perhaps it wasn't the "coaching" the "scheme" the "line" the "receivers" it may have just been that Jones is not a fit for Daboll and/or he is just a middling QB with a high draft pick around his neck. If we're truly honest, it happens. Guys like Darnold and Sanchez may have had some good games here and there but consistency is key.