Has our OL had a metamorphosis?

[Arodgers12]

You guys facing Winston or Carr this week?

[T200]

You guys facing Winston or Carr this week?

TBD

[kingm56]

The O-line changed the moment Pugh was signed and inserted. He has brought the professionalism, leadership and stability many felt he would.

There was a particular run where Barkley ran right into a defender but the hole to the left was enormous last night, he just didn't see it. Pugh has likely had a major impact on JMS as well.

The bigger question is why did it take so long to recognize his need.

How did you reach that conclusion, Trench? Pugh has been atrocious and is currently one of the NFL's worst Guards, having allowed 5 sacks and 4 penalties in just 504 snaps.  His Will Hernandez and Shane Lemieux-like 47 PFF rating is an accurate depiction of his efforts.  Prior to MNF, the Giants actually gave up more sacks per game since inserting Pugh, including 8x, 5x, 9x, and 6x.  They've also rushed under 100 yards in 3 of his 6 starts; last week they rushed for 200+ yards off the strength of Tommy's 86 rushing yards, which were necessary as byproduct of poor interior blocking (he was running for his life).  The lines improvement is a mirage propagated by Tommy's performance.  His ability to avoid sacks in the pocket is the impetus for a zero sack performance against GB and the perceived OL gains.  In short, the Oline hasn't improved...the QB play has, which I believe is the geneses of this thread and the point Lenn was making.   

[T200]

How did you reach that conclusion, Trench? Pugh has been atrocious and is currently one of the NFL's worst Guards, having allowed 5 sacks and 4 penalties in just 504 snaps.  His Will Hernandez and Shane Lemieux-like 47 PFF rating is an accurate depiction of his efforts.  Prior to MNF, the Giants actually gave up more sacks per game since inserting Pugh, including 8x, 5x, 9x, and 6x.  They've also rushed under 100 yards in 3 of his 6 starts; last week they rushed for 200+ yards of the strength of Tommy's 86 rushing yards, which were necessary as byproduct of poor interior blocking.  The lines improvement is a mirage propagated by Tommy's performance.  His ability to avoid sacks in the pocket is the impetus for a zero sack performance against GB and the perceived OL gains.  In short, the Oline hasn't improved...the QB play has, which I believe is the geneses of this thread and the point Lenn was making.   

   

[andrew_nyGiants]

This is supposed to be a progression of the offense lead by good consistent reads by the QB & receivers.

If they can minimize the OL substitution due to injuries moving forward, I believe we will see more positive Paisan progression moving forward.


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[DaveBrown74]

I view Pugh as a stop-gap signing that was made when we were desperate just to get an experienced body in there as we were ravaged by injuries and terrible play. Personally I don't think he has been anything to write home about, and in some games he has looked bad to me, but perhaps his familiarity with the organization and the fact that he is a veteran and maybe seen as something of a leader attracted them to him. Either way I'll be very surprised if he's a day one starter on this line in 2024.

I have never bought the notion that our O line has suddenly transformed into something it was not, just by happenstance when they switched QBs. We had folks making this claim when Tyrod was brought in too. The line is the same line. Different QBs bring different skill-sets to the table. The idea that a terrible line becomes suddenly decent overnight, and that metamorphosis just happens to coincidentally happen when a QB change is made, just doesn't ring true to me whatsoever.

[Ed Vette]

@MightyGiants what were the PFF team Oline grades for passing and for run blocking? And what were the grades by player? Thanks

[MightyGiants]

@MightyGiants what were the PFF team Oline grades for passing and for run blocking? And what were the grades by player? Thanks

[MightyGiants]

I think Carl Banks is on point when it comes to the biggest improvement of the offensive line.   It's important to consider (and I am unaware of stats to use) the difference between a failure of the O-line that leads to a free rusher and sacks/pressures that are a result of an engaged defender defeating their block. Free rushers are devastating to an offense (because of how quickly it happens), while pressure after defeating a block is more workable. 

Early in the season, there were far too many free rushers.  That was really disruptive.  Now you are not seeing the mental errors from the line and things are more effective.

[Ed Vette]

As I thought. Just Thomas with a very good grade and JMS with a decent grade. The rest were poor and gave up nine pressures combined. Tommy avoided a lot of sacks.

[Ed Vette]

I think Carl Banks is on point when it comes to the biggest improvement of the offensive line.   It's important to consider (and I am unaware of stats to use) the difference between a failure of the O-line that leads to a free rusher and sacks/pressures that are a result of an engaged defender defeating their block. Free rushers are devastating to an offense (because of how quickly it happens), while pressure after defeating a block is more workable. 

Early in the season, there were far too many free rushers.  That was really disruptive.  Now you are not seeing the mental errors from the line and things are more effective.

One of the things JMS is good at is double teams and lateral movement off one block to another. Bellinger is disappointing but Saquon has become a pretty consistent blocker which was a fault early in his career.

[Bob In PA]

As I thought. Just Thomas with a very good grade and JMS with a decent grade. The rest were poor and gave up nine pressures combined. Tommy avoided a lot of sacks.

Ed: That was just for the one game, correct?  Bob

[Bob In PA]

I think Carl Banks is on point when it comes to the biggest improvement of the offensive line.   It's important to consider (and I am unaware of stats to use) the difference between a failure of the O-line that leads to a free rusher and sacks/pressures that are a result of an engaged defender defeating their block. Free rushers are devastating to an offense (because of how quickly it happens), while pressure after defeating a block is more workable. 

Early in the season, there were far too many free rushers.  That was really disruptive.  Now you are not seeing the mental errors from the line and things are more effective.

Rich: So true. If you count just the number of free rushers then the OL has improved over time.

Again, though, we come back to... compare the last five teams we played to the first five.

This is why I believe the Giants need another EDGE (especially). You've got have have at least three or four these days because passing is more important than ever, so, therefore, pass-defense/pass-rushing is more important than ever.

Bob

[Jclayton92]

Brederson had a beautiful pulling block on the first O snap of the game and then I don't think they ever went back to it the rest of the game. They might have I just didn't notice it.

[Ed Vette]

Ed: That was just for the one game, correct?  Bob

Yes but it's indicative of what's been prevalent all season. There is Andrew Thomas and then the rest who struggle.