How has Schoen's moves differed from Gettleman's

[MightyGiants]

I believe that Schoen has had the advantage of a superior coaching staff compared to Gettleman's Schurmer and Judge, but how have they differed in moves (not style but football decisions)?


https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1742550218212610449?s=20

[DaveBrown74]

Even though Schoen has spent to the cap, I still think he has shown more restraint than Gettleman. Gettleman had these absurd moves where he paid through the nose for mediocre/declining talent like Solder and Golladay. Gettleman never would have dug his heels in with Barkley the way Schoen did. Or Jones for that matter (who was asking for $47mm).

The jury is still very much out on Schoen overall, but I find him more prudent than Gettleman on personnel decisions.

Another big difference is he seems much more nimble and willing to move around in drafts.

[kartanoman]

Good morning, Rich @MightyGiants .

I think there's one variable missing that both GM's haven't truly addressed which is the sore thumb that sticks out, year after year.

First, you cannot "Win," while rebuilding (NOTE: at least the quality winning we all wish to see against good teams), or "Compete" today (NOTE: against those same good teams) when your current state roster simply does not measure up and can neither compete with nor win against the good NFL teams. In essence, they have been playing perpetual catch-up and, as another season lay to waste, it is difficult to justify if they have even slightly closed the gap with their division rivals or even the better teams in the conference.

I mean, we can nitpick players and positions like we do every day here. But the final product hasn't taken that step forward yet.

What I am hoping for is that Schoen and company use this season as the "step back in order to step forward." I think now is the time they get their heads together and come up with a solution for bringing in an bona-fide impact player who has the ability to influence the outcome of games. I wish there was a Lawrence Taylor in the draft they could get their hands on. But, being realistic, it's time to pick up a player who will be a sure thing 10x Pro Bowl star you can build around, offense or defense, take your pick. But no matter whom Schoen and company chooses, that player, alone, will close the gap between the Giants and their Divisional rivals, at a minimum.

Until that gap is addressed, those mantras mean nothing.

Peace!

[uconnjack8]

One thing that sticks out to me about both is that the OL has been in shambles for a decade now.  As discussed in a number of threads, it's not for lack of resources. 

I think that one position group has been failures for both.  The book isn't closed for Schoen yet, but his early returns are not good.  Both Neal and JMS did not start their careers well.  That is not to say that either or both will not become solid players. 

In other OL news, former Giant Will Hernandez is the starting RG for a team with a top 5 rushing attack in the NFL.  A team that until recently had a revolving door at QB.  Coincidence that he is successful after leaving the Giants? 

[Gmo11]

I think we have enough evidence to suggest that the OL coaching/development on this team is about the worst in the league.  Whatever the hell they're teaching in this organization needs to be immediately stopped and turned on its head.  Feliciano is a top C, Hernandez couldn't block his grandmother with the Giants but now is suddenly good, even going back to Flowers being a serviceable guard when the Giants couldn't even be bothered to try him there. 

JMS and Evan Neal were superb prospects coming out of college.  Absolute studs.  There is no reason for them to have simply forgotten how to play football unless what they're being told to do is holding (pun intended) them back. 

The OL coach should be fired after the season and anybody that worked on the OL with him can also see the door.  They need an entirely new style of coaching, new philosophy, new techniques, new everything.  And if they can get even a semi-competent system in place I think Neal and JMS will both show some significant improvement next season.  In the case of Neal, he can't really be any worse so he's got no place to go but up!

[katkavage]

Good morning, Rich @MightyGiants .

I think there's one variable missing that both GM's haven't truly addressed which is the sore thumb that sticks out, year after year.

First, you cannot "Win," while rebuilding (NOTE: at least the quality winning we all wish to see against good teams), or "Compete" today (NOTE: against those same good teams) when your current state roster simply does not measure up and can neither compete with nor win against the good NFL teams. In essence, they have been playing perpetual catch-up and, as another season lay to waste, it is difficult to justify if they have even slightly closed the gap with their division rivals or even the better teams in the conference.

I mean, we can nitpick players and positions like we do every day here. But the final product hasn't taken that step forward yet.

What I am hoping for is that Schoen and company use this season as the "step back in order to step forward." I think now is the time they get their heads together and come up with a solution for bringing in an bona-fide impact player who has the ability to influence the outcome of games. I wish there was a Lawrence Taylor in the draft they could get their hands on. But, being realistic, it's time to pick up a player who will be a sure thing 10x Pro Bowl star you can build around, offense or defense, take your pick. But no matter whom Schoen and company chooses, that player, alone, will close the gap between the Giants and their Divisional rivals, at a minimum.

Until that gap is addressed, those mantras mean nothing.

Peace!

I've been saying this through two GM tenures. A rebuild is not a compromise. You have to tear down before you build up. Gettleman foolishly thought a running back added to a QB on the decline with a bad offensive line would win. We love Eli but he should have been either forced to retire or find a new team. Now Schoen comes and has to work a rebuild around a mediocre QB. It's not how it is done. Jones should have been cut loose before last year. I don't care that he has a winning season last year. That was short term success. You need to build for the long term.

[Gmo11]

I've been saying this through two GM tenures. A rebuild is not a compromise. You have to tear down before you build up. Gettleman foolishly thought a running back added to a QB on the decline with a bad offensive line would win. We love Eli but he should have been either forced to retire or find a new team. Now Schoen comes and has to work a rebuild around a mediocre QB. It's not how it is done. Jones should have been cut loose before last year. I don't care that he has a winning season last year. That was short term success. You need to build for the long term.

This is of course correct.  They absolutely should have cut bait last year and there were plenty of voices around here suggesting they do exactly that.  However, the success of the team put Schoen in an unenviable position because there were not other real solid options to go to.  Even though Baker Mayfield looks great now going into last offseason he was a disaster.  So how do you as a GM explain to your fans that the team that just won a wild card spot and a playoff game needs to be blown up and will be starting Tyrod Taylor?  Even though the team absolutely did need that. 

I think he did the best he could by signing Jones but giving himself the ability to get away from him after next season.  Would have been nice to get him on a one year prove it deal but he never was going to go for that so he did what he could without damaging the future too much.  You can question the decision not to pick up the 5th year but at the time Jones was (and still is) very very bad at this.  I don't think they expected in any sort of wildest dreams to be a playoff team let alone win a game when they got there.  In a sense, that screwed up the entire rebuild.

[katkavage]

This is of course correct.  They absolutely should have cut bait last year and there were plenty of voices around here suggesting they do exactly that.  However, the success of the team put Schoen in an unenviable position because there were not other real solid options to go to.  Even though Baker Mayfield looks great now going into last offseason he was a disaster.  So how do you as a GM explain to your fans that the team that just won a wild card spot and a playoff game needs to be blown up and will be starting Tyrod Taylor?  Even though the team absolutely did need that. 

I think he did the best he could by signing Jones but giving himself the ability to get away from him after next season.  Would have been nice to get him on a one year prove it deal but he never was going to go for that so he did what he could without damaging the future too much.  You can question the decision not to pick up the 5th year but at the time Jones was (and still is) very very bad at this.  I don't think they expected in any sort of wildest dreams to be a playoff team let alone win a game when they got there.  In a sense, that screwed up the entire rebuild.

They should have done it before last year.

[Gmo11]

They should have done it before last year.

Even I thought they should have at least seen what Daboll could do with him.  Josh Allen was no better than Jones his first two seasons.  So to me I was on board with giving him a shot even if I was skeptical. 

If we want to keep going back...they never should have drafted him at all, given Eli a farewell season, and drafted either Burrow/Tua/Herbert the following year.  Since any of them rated out about 10x better of a prospect than Jones did.  But I digress...sigh...

[katkavage]

Even I thought they should have at least seen what Daboll could do with him.  Josh Allen was no better than Jones his first two seasons.  So to me I was on board with giving him a shot even if I was skeptical. 

If we want to keep going back...they never should have drafted him at all, given Eli a farewell season, and drafted either Burrow/Tua/Herbert the following year.  Since any of them rated out about 10x better of a prospect than Jones did.  But I digress...sigh...

I never saw much in Jones. And they never should have drafted him. And you are right, Eli should have had that farewell season. Got to make the big boy moves to get it right.

[Painter]

As far as I'm concerned, once Gettleman chose Barkley and a not a QB like Darnold (ugh) or Ed Vette's choice Josh Allen (how nice!) with the 2nd overall in 2018, the Die was cast. It was pretty much a lead-pipe that he would look for Eli's successor in 2019 despite its slimmer pickins, once Justin Herbert decided to wait a year. Dang it!

So Gman took Daniel Jones 6th overall, which at the time, wasn't thought to have been a bad pick as such although I doubt that he has cared much about it since 2021 when thereafter it all became Joe Schoen & Co's issue to deal with. And like so many things in the NFL and elsewhere, it is so often a matter of timing and luck, and sometimes culture which can cause entanglement.

When last season a new younger non-crony regime brought with them rare albeit modest success on the field, followed as it were by some further talent additions in FA and the Draft, there was every reason for optimism by even those unenthusiastic about the big bucks deal given to Daniel Jones.

Instead, we got a 180 degree smack in the face and with it more uncertainty. Uncertainty about Quarterback and certainly the Oline and with it FA, the Draft and Franchise Tag. Thus, whatever the moves, and comparisons to be made, it sure does seem to have a "square one" familiarity.

Cheers!

[nb587]

Two words.  Leonard Williams.  Schoen got a 2nd round pick for an older more injury prone player.  Schoen got more than Gettleman overpaid for the player who was good but not close to what he got from Gettleman

[uconnjack8]

Two words.  Leonard Williams.  Schoen got a 2nd round pick for an older more injury prone player.  Schoen got more than Gettleman overpaid for the player who was good but not close to what he got from Gettleman

Who was the more injury prone player?