Phil Simms calls Pennix the best college thrower he has ever seen

[MightyGiants]

Former GM Randy Mueller was asked on his latest podcast what draft slot a team wanting to draft Pennix would need to be in.  His answer, "top dozen"

Of course, this was qualified with Pennix passing a physical.  This means they don't find any degenerative conditions in his knee or shoulders.

[Painter]

When Phil Simms calls Pennix the best college thrower he has ever seen, it is for him a statement of fact. For a lot us, apparently, it's a can of worms; for some, a wad in the crack of the ass. And so, that does make me think that I must have missed the part where one or both Simms promoted the idea that the Giants should draft Michael Penix if they can possibly do so.

Alright, so they didn't, which I guess leaves it us to determine the degree to which spiral accuracy and precision may be subject to discounts re age and potential degeneration once we are in possession of pre-Draft medical prognosis. And then there are those rising and falling whispers from the 'perts, not to mention some GM who may do the unthinkable.

Oh! why does this have to be so hard?  

Cheers!

[Philosophers]

Penix is not great throwing out of the pocket on the run.  He's also not particularly mobile.  Playing behind our OL will not utilize his best attributes.  Other more mobile QBs may survive it better.

[MightyGiants]

Penix is not great throwing out of the pocket on the run.  He's also not particularly mobile.  Playing behind our OL will not utilize his best attributes.  Other more mobile QBs may survive it better.

Penix isn't a running QB, but he is mobile with very good pocket awareness and the ability to avoid the rush.

That's why PFF has his pressure converted to sack rate at just 8%.

Compare


C. Willians 23.2%
D. Maye 19.6%
J. Daniels 20.2%
B. Nix 7.7%

[Philosophers]

Penix isn't a running QB, but he is mobile with very good pocket awareness and the ability to avoid the rush.

That's why PFF has his pressure converted to sack rate at just 8%.

Compare


C. Willians 23.2%
D. Maye 19.6%
J. Daniels 20.2%
B. Nix 7.7%

When I've watched him, he does not look all that mobile to me.  His completion % plummets.

[DaveBrown74]

I'll say this about Penix:

Giants fans have a tendency to complain about the frequency of injuries on this team. If we draft Penix and we have another RG3 situation on our hands, we cannot (with a straight face at least) act like we're snake-bit or deserving of any sympathy. Penix has had a ton of major injuries. He is a risky pick because of this injury history, and if we draft him, we will have knowingly accepted that risk. I understand that his last two years have been healthy, but that was true with Ojulari as well, and he dropped precipitously in the draft because of his injury past.

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't draft Penix. Just that anyone who advocates strongly for it will have zero ground to stand on (as far as acting surprised or complaining) if/when he gets significantly hurt as a pro. The history is right there in black and white for everyone to see. Draft Penix, and you may have an elite pro QB on your hands. You also may have another Daniel Jones situation on your hands, and in the case of this guy, the health red flags are readily apparent.

[MightyGiants]

When I've watched him, he does not look all that mobile to me.  His completion % plummets.

PFF has grades for QB prospects when under pressure

C. Williams-  39.1
D. Maye-  57.8
J. Daniels- 63.0
Penix- 70.7
Bo Nix- 91.2

[Philosophers]

PFF has grades for QB prospects when under pressure

C. Williams-  39.1
D. Maye-  57.8
J. Daniels- 63.0
Penix- 70.7
Bo Nix- 91.2

I can only by what my eyes see.  What PFF calls pressure may or may not be how I see it.

[MightyGiants]

I'll say this about Penix:

Giants fans have a tendency to complain about the frequency of injuries on this team. If we draft Penix and we have another RG3 situation on our hands, we cannot (with a straight face at least) act like we're snake-bit or deserving of any sympathy. Penix has had a ton of major injuries. He is a risky pick because of this injury history, and if we draft him, we will have knowingly accepted that risk. I understand that his last two years have been healthy, but that was true with Ojulari as well, and he dropped precipitously in the draft because of his injury past.

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't draft Penix. Just that anyone who advocates strongly for it will have zero ground to stand on (as far as acting surprised or complaining) if/when he gets significantly hurt as a pro. The history is right there in black and white for everyone to see. Draft Penix, and you may have an elite pro QB on your hands. You also may have another Daniel Jones situation on your hands, and in the case of this guy, the health red flags are readily apparent.

Jeff,

Ojulari is a poor comparison.  Here was his history prior to the draft


"Checked in on the reports about Azeez Ojulari's knee," tweeted Duggan. "He tore his ACL as a high school senior and redshirted his first year at Georgia. But he didn't miss a game in his two active seasons at UGA.


One injury does not mean a player is injury-prone.  The injury questions about Ojulari involve questions about the knee injury that resulted in arthritis in his knee.  To date Ojulari's knee has not had issues with arthritis.

To consider drafting Pennix, he would have to pass a thorough physical that shows his knee and shoulders are sound.  If he passes that physical, one needs to weigh the four significant injuries in his first four seasons with his two straight, healthy seasons. 

I am not going to argue that history is a reason for concern.  However, as was already mentioned, Pennix is a mobile QB rather than a running QB.  Not being a running quarterback does mean he is less likely to get injured.  Pennix's ability to avoid the rush should also help him stay healthy.

You mention RG3; he had only one injury (an ACL) in college, so it's not like he was considered an injury-prone prospect.

Just remember the same argument you are using against Pennix, applied to Phil Simms in his early NFL career.  The Giants held on to Simms and were rewarded with two SB trophies (although Simms was injured in the second Super Bowl run, he spotted the team 11 wins before getting hurt.

With the Giants' likely draft slot, Pennix may be the team's only option for an elite QB prospect.

[DaveBrown74]

I'm all for drafting him if our scouts and GM believe he has a very good chance of being an elite pro. Lord knows we desperately need a good QB on this team. I'm just not going pretend there isn't a heightened risk factor with this player. Two ACL tears on the same knee by age 22 (plus two separate shoulder injuries) isn't kids' stuff. I'm fully supportive of taking a calculated risk if our front office thinks the upside justifies it. Taking calculated risks is what the draft is about in many respects. But if he becomes a Giant, and in the first year he goes down with some significant injury, am I going to be shocked and feel like we just can't catch a break? No, I am not.

[Philosophers]

Didn't he also have surgery surgery?  Not sure if it was his throwing or non-throwing shoulder.

[DaveBrown74]

Didn't he also have surgery surgery?  Not sure if it was his throwing or non-throwing shoulder.

From CBS Sports:

"A series of injuries at Indiana ground down the quarterback mentally and physically. Before he transferred to Washington in December 2021, Penix had already suffered season-ending ACL injuries (2018, 2022) as well as a clavicle injury that required surgery (2019) and a dislocated shoulder (2021)"

I am unsure if it was his throwing shoulder or not.

[BluesCruz]

so his bad luck is behind him

I was incredibly impressed by Pennix

[MightyGiants]

Film Room: Michael Penix Jr Vs Texas: All Passes

[Philosophers]

If you want to see Penix against a very good D, watch tomorrow's CFP final.