Raanan reports other coaches unhappy with Daboll

[MightyGiants]

How is it that, according to you, there were "NYG-sanctioned leaks" to the media that, in your words, amount to a "smear of Wink and his people" yet Ranaan can talk to "other unhappy coaches" and that's not a smear against Daboll?

It really is quite comical how you can make a one-sided argument when you're the primary proponent of intellectual honesty here.

Tim,

Over the years, I have not just listened and read what the beat writers have reported.  I have been keenly noting patterns and indicators about who they talk to and how they report it.  I am also very aware that teams and NFL coaches/front office/owners have two reputations: the one they have among fans and the one they have among NFL people in the know.  I also know who reports what is discussed among the better-informed NFL people (like Mike Lombardi, for example).

It's funny how you liked Bob's comment that "Raanan is full of crap" because it doesn't fit your view that Wink was all to blame and Daboll barely did anything wrong.  I mean, it's not like Bob (or you) can point to an incident where Raanan gave out bad information (another thing I do is track how often people are proven right or wrong).  You can't point to that because I have not seen incidents where Raanan's reports have been proven incorrect or badly inaccurate.  As for "Giants-sanctioned leaks", I was well aware of who the Giants go to when they want to "leak" information well before the Wink saga happened.  When you are always trying to get to the truth, you are constantly evaluating sources.

Still, if you want to think my views are "comical" because they don't fit your perceptions of the situation, that certainly is your right, and I can see how such tactics will make you feel better about your beliefs.  In the end, I feel quite comfortable judging the quality of information based on sources rather than on how much it agrees with my current beliefs.  That is, despite your embarrassing claim to the contrary, at the heart of intellectual honesty and critical thinking.

Hell, even with my commentary, you are more keen to attack me because what I say doesn't fit your beliefs, that listen to what I have to say with an open mind, appreciating just how many hours I spend taking in information via social media, article, and podcasts and how carefully I vet the information I take in (I treat people providing me information like courts treat witnesses in  trial, they need to prove to my satisfaction that they are reliable or if they are giving opinions they are qualified to do so.

[MightyGiants]

Maybe I am wrong but in spite of this spat with coaches, other than Xavier McKinney's outbursts about wanting to get paid, it seems very quiet among the players.  I don't see any uprising with players protesting Dabs.  They seem to be aligned under him.  Am I wrong on that?

From everything I have heard, the players like Daboll and enjoy playing for him.   It's the coaching staff who are unhappy with him.

[Bob In PA]

Maybe I am wrong but in spite of this spat with coaches, other than Xavier McKinney's outbursts about wanting to get paid, it seems very quiet among the players.  I don't see any uprising with players protesting Dabs.  They seem to be aligned under him.  Am I wrong on that?

Phil: I've been puzzling over the McKinney situation. 

The fact that his contract is up for renewal makes speculation nearly impossible (too many possibilities).

What I'd REALLY LIKE to believe is that Daboll & McKinney are/were more on the "same page" than Daboll & Wink.

IMO, he is one of the players on this team who just can't stand losing.

That's not a bad thing, and I'm counting on the leaders to talk sense to him (explaining that the team is as much on the verge of becoming a perennial winner as nearly every other team, so moving anywhere but to a sure-fire Super Bowl contender next year is probably going to turn out to be a mistake).  And THAT assumes there IS such a thing as a "sure-fire contender next year" in today's version of the NFL (which I question now more than ever).

Bob

[Bob In PA]

How is it that, according to you, there were "NYG-sanctioned leaks" to the media that, in your words, amount to a "smear of Wink and his people" yet Ranaan can talk to "other unhappy coaches" and that's not a smear against Daboll?

It really is quite comical how you can make a one-sided argument when you're the primary proponent of intellectual honesty here.

Tim: Just now picked up on the fact that you changed your avatar (or whatever the correct term is). lol

[MightyGiants]

Phil: I've been puzzling over the McKinney situation. 

The fact that his contract is up for renewal makes speculation nearly impossible (too many possibilities).

What I'd REALLY LIKE to believe is that Daboll & McKinney are/were more on the "same page" than Daboll & Wink.

IMO, he is one of the players on this team who just can't stand losing.

That's not a bad thing, and I'm counting on the leaders to talk sense to him (explaining that the team is as much on the verge of becoming a perennial winner as nearly every other team, so moving anywhere but to a sure-fire Super Bowl contender next year is probably going to turn out to be a mistake).  And THAT assumes there IS such a thing as a "sure-fire contender next year" in today's version of the NFL (which I question now more than ever).

Bob

I think the other thing to consider with the McKinney situation is his skill set doesn't seem like the best match for Wink's system.  McKennie generated better stats under Graham's system than Winks.  I suspect it's because Graham favored more zone, which allowed McKinney to generate more INTs while the M2M focus of Wink's system didn't allow that.

[T200]

Tim,

Over the years, I have not just listened and read what the beat writers have reported.  I have been keenly noting patterns and indicators about who they talk to and how they report it.  I am also very aware that teams and NFL coaches/front office/owners have two reputations: the one they have among fans and the one they have among NFL people in the know.  I also know who reports what is discussed among the better-informed NFL people (like Mike Lombardi, for example).

It's funny how you liked Bob's comment that "Raanan is full of crap" because it doesn't fit your view that Wink was all to blame and Daboll barely did anything wrong.  I mean, it's not like Bob (or you) can point to an incident where Raanan gave out bad information (another thing I do is track how often people are proven right or wrong).  You can't point to that because I have not seen incidents where Raanan's reports have been proven incorrect or badly inaccurate.  As for "Giants-sanctioned leaks", I was well aware of who the Giants go to when they want to "leak" information well before the Wink saga happened.  When you are always trying to get to the truth, you are constantly evaluating sources.

Still, if you want to think my views are "comical" because they don't fit your perceptions of the situation, that certainly is your right, and I can see how such tactics will make you feel better about your beliefs.  In the end, I feel quite comfortable judging the quality of information based on sources rather than on how much it agrees with my current beliefs.  That is, despite your embarrassing claim to the contrary, at the heart of intellectual honesty and critical thinking.

Hell, even with my commentary, you are more keen to attack me because what I say doesn't fit your beliefs, that listen to what I have to say with an open mind, appreciating just how many hours I spend taking in information via social media, article, and podcasts and how carefully I vet the information I take in (I treat people providing me information like courts treat witnesses in  trial, they need to prove to my satisfaction that they are reliable or if they are giving opinions they are qualified to do so.

Rich,

Take a look at your comments above that I put in bold. What do they all have in common? I'll tell you:

Your incorrect assumptions and positing them as fact.

I respond to your comments that you try and pass off as fact. I come at your statements when you nitpick and isolate a small portion of a statement and make it the basis for your response. You leave out key information that is relevant. For example:

It's funny how you liked Bob's comment that "Raanan is full of crap"

This was Bob's complete post:

Rich: That's one possibility. Another is that, upon their being hired, each of the supposedly "unhappy" assistants/coordinators were told what was expected of them, and THEY didn't hold up their end of the bargain (whatever that might have been).

Another is that they're "unhappy" because they were called on the carpet and told that their performance was sub-par and they didn't like hearing the bad news.

Yet one more - Ranaan is full of crap.

Bob

But according to you, I "liked" his post specifically and only for the Ranaan statement. That's why I speak on your intellectual dishonesty.

[T200]

Tim: Just now picked up on the fact that you changed your avatar (or whatever the correct term is). lol

Bob,

I "borrowed" it from the NY Giants app on my phone.

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

Take a look at your comments above that I put in bold. What do they all have in common? I'll tell you:

Your incorrect assumptions and positing them as fact.

I respond to your comments that you try and pass off as fact. I come at your statements when you you nitpick and isolate a small portion of a statement and make it the basis for your response. You leave out key information that is relevant. For example:

This was Bob's complete post:

But according to you, I "liked" his post specifically and only for the Ranaan statement. That's why I speak on your intellectual dishonesty.

Tim,

You are being very intellectually dishonest.  It's clear you seek out what you WANT to hear rather than seek out the truth regardless of whether you want to hear it or not (as I am).

You don't think I wanted to find out our head coach is doing a great job and by parting ways with Wink all the problems are solved and I can look forward to great trouble free seasons ahead????

As much as I want to have optimism moving forward that we have the right GM and right head coach, I am not going to pick and choose what and who I believe to support that desire, as you are clearly doing.

I want to be optimistic, but I have invested too much time and energy trying to get to the truth, along with the skills and techniques I have developed.

One thing that ruins your narrative is I posted the link for the Giants Insiders podcast roasting Wink.

If I was this sinister, intellectually dishonest person you are disappointingly trying to portray me as (because I see things differently than you do), I wouldn't have posted it.  I only would have posted things that fit my views (although that is very difficult as my views are always subject to change based on new information).


Tim, you are an admin; you should be setting an example to follow.  That example should be discussing topics, not attacking people that you don't agree with, and FALSELY accusing them of intellectual dishonesty.  People posting here should have to be having to defend their character.  That includes your slander about me trying to pass off opinion as fact.

[babywhales]

It seems strange that all of these stories are coming out this week. The beat reporters have access to these guys throughout the season.

Are the Giants positioning themselves to sack Daboll in the coming days?

Jackson said both were great actors , never would of known there was an issue 

[MightyGiants]

Jackson said both were great actors , never would of known there was an issue

That is one positive takeaway.  As bad as the drama got among the head coaches, at least it didn't spill into the locker room and impact the players.  Hell, with all the chaos one could argue their last game of the season was one of the player's best efforts for the season

[babywhales]

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/01/12/new-york-giants-brian-daboll-makes-brutal-outbursts-personal/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3tSBUmLbpLRleY9QtKKOfL4DZln-h2ykeQ7ulDKo_tkZ36oBRd4QE3n-A_aem_ATEtSBf20qWMgVzW6wSqUPPCEHf-PReUqexlUqZFiW3za2l_tCJ3aRzmVQMbS5NoU1M#lrat2vjum90wz6wn72

[babywhales]

I just wish our team made headlines for quality play and not the constant losing and side drama

[MightyGiants]

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/01/12/new-york-giants-brian-daboll-makes-brutal-outbursts-personal/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3tSBUmLbpLRleY9QtKKOfL4DZln-h2ykeQ7ulDKo_tkZ36oBRd4QE3n-A_aem_ATEtSBf20qWMgVzW6wSqUPPCEHf-PReUqexlUqZFiW3za2l_tCJ3aRzmVQMbS5NoU1M#lrat2vjum90wz6wn72

Chris' link is a summary of many of the articles written.  If you subscribe to the Athletic I suggest you read that article directly as there are a lot of good quotes from Dan's sources

https://theathletic.com/5194303/2024/01/12/new-york-giants-brian-daboll-wink-martindale-relationship-coach/

[Gmo11]

Maybe I am wrong but in spite of this spat with coaches, other than Xavier McKinney's outbursts about wanting to get paid, it seems very quiet among the players.  I don't see any uprising with players protesting Dabs.  They seem to be aligned under him.  Am I wrong on that?

McKinney made it clear he was not even considering re-signing with the Giants if Wink was still around.  Now it's at least a possibility that he comes back.  To take that kind of stance would likely indicate he wasn't alone with that distaste of his DC.

[Stringer Bell]

Rich: I'm not sure I'm following your line of reasoning. 

What is/was Daboll's "error of his ways?"

Is the error based on fact, opinion, supposition or media reporting?

Bob

Spot on, Bob. None of this is based on fact. It's all opinion and supposition based on an extremely limited view of things.

Which is why absolutely none of this manufactured drama means squat to me. As others have said, this is equal parts losing franchise + manufactured drama + off-season boredom.

One fact we know is that none of this faux drama kept the team from landing their #1 choice for OL coach. I'd think if things in the building were as bad as some are trying to portray, this would have not been the case.