R Wilson vs. S Payton

[Fletch]

Why did Payton not like Wilson? I thought he was benched for his poor play and seeing what they had in  a lost season. It had more to do with his not waiving an injury clause? He posted decent numbers.. I have to say while his stats are good -- and admittedly I only see him during nationally TV games -- he always looks awful to me.

"...Was it difficult to release Wilson on account of the cap hit?"

"No" Payton replied.

 

[DaveBrown74]

Why did Payton not like Wilson? I thought he was benched for his poor play and seeing what they had in  a lost season. It had more to do with his not waiving an injury clause? He posted decent numbers.. I have to say while his stats are good -- and admittedly I only see him during nationally TV games -- he always looks awful to me.

One thing he was bad about in games I watched, which is not really visible in the classic stats most people look at, is he acted as if he is still as mobile as he once was. He would scramble, trying to buy time, when he really shouldn't have. Consequently, he took a number of sacks, sometimes for material losses, that he really shouldn't have. Since a number of those sacks should have probably been throwaways, if anything this tendency helped his passing numbers at the margin.

[uconnjack8]

I get the impression that Wilson thinks he is an executive not a football player.

Not sure why Payton took the job at this point.  When he 1st got there reports were he and Wilson got along well when they had met and wanted to work together.

[uconnjack8]

One thing he was bad about in games I watched, which is not really visible in the classic stats most people look at, is he acted as if he is still as mobile as he once was. He would scramble, trying to buy time, when he really shouldn't have. Consequently, he took a number of sacks, sometimes for material losses, that he really shouldn't have. Since a number of those sacks should have probably been throwaways, if anything this tendency helped his passing numbers at the margin.

It's funny because that's what Wilson has done his entire career?  Did Payton think he could turn him into Brees and he a pocket passer?

[Fletch]

It's funny because that's what Wilson has done his entire career?  Did Payton think he could turn him into Brees and he a pocket passer?

No from reading about this on the internet it sounds like he took the job because he liked management and ownership. He never liked Wilson. I guesshe figured he could do what he did eventually and bench him / get rid of him.

Incidentally, wasn't Wilson going to the Broncos was him becoming more of a pocket passer anyway? "Let Russ cook".

[uconnjack8]

No from reading about this on the internet it sounds like he took the job because he liked management and ownership. He never liked Wilson. I guesshe figured he could do what he did eventually and bench him / get rid of him.

Incidentally, wasn't Wilson going to the Broncos was him becoming more of a pocket passer anyway? "Let Russ cook".

I thought that meant just let him be him and move around and extend plays. 

When Wilson got his contract with Denver part of it was that he had his own office.  That said a lot to me.  You have a guy like Brady who tried to be "just one of the guys" with other players when he had teammates that were watching him in grade school and he was already an icon.  On the other end, Wilson felt the need to show he was more important than the rest of the team.

[Fletch]

I think that was part of the problem; him emending plays is a coach killer with well designed plays.

[zephirus]

Russell Wilson is one of the poster boys for the "Tom Brady did it so why can't I" movement that is usually labeled "player empowerment".  With rare exception, it doesn't work because, you guessed it, they're not Tom Brady.  I've highlighted most of this in a previous post but to summarize:

- Russell Wilson tried to get the GM of the Seahawks fired and demanded influence on personnel decisions including free agency and the draft.  The front office there allegedly "couldn't wait to drive him to the airport" when they found a willing trade partner in the Broncos.  With the Broncos he realized some of the power he craved and the results were not good.  In what will arguably go down as the worst trade in NFL history, he lasted 2 seasons, with no winning record, and was so undesirable by that franchise that they were willing to pay a 90 million dollar cap hit rather than retain him.
- Deshaun Watson demanded to have influence when the Texans were searching for a new GM and head coach.  They declined, and he wormed his way out of the franchise.  Despite 40+ allegations of sexual misconduct and a large suspension looming, the Browns traded for him giving up massive draft capital and, in another unprecedented move, a fully guaranteed contract.  After 2 seasons plagued by injury, suspensions and ineffectiveness, 2024 looms large for Watson to reclaim any semblance of credibility.  He'll almost certainly never be able to live up to the Browns' expectations regarding what they gave up to get him.  The juries still out on this one only because he's still with the team, but it might rival Wilson's trade in terms of "worst ever".
- Aaron Rodgers often expressed desperation and exasperation with the Packers with demands on who was drafted by the franchise and signing free agents.  After a cosmetic final season with the Packers in which he was mostly given what he wanted, he was shipped off to the Jets.  After compelling the Jets to sign many aging vets who's best days were behind them because he had personal friendships with them, he was injured less than 10 plays into the season and hasn't seen a snap since.  Season 2 of the Rodgers experiment will start in September.

I think the NFL has largely closed the door on entertaining requests like this.  Lamar Jackson fought a losing battle last off-season with regards to a fully guaranteed contract and the other rising stars at quarterback haven't asked for an expanded role (Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc). 

[Fletch]

What does Aaron Rodgers have to with anything? He is 40 years old ; a first ballot hall of famer. I doubt he would have done much with that o line anyway. Jets also have a very dubious coaching situation. Worst case scenario you can say he stayed a year longer than he should have even if he stinks up the place next season.

And what choice did the Jets really have anyway?

The Russ Wilson situation is an entirely different matter. Can you really make the case he's a hall of fame any more ? I don't think you can.

[DaveBrown74]

It's funny because that's what Wilson has done his entire career?  Did Payton think he could turn him into Brees and he a pocket passer?

Yeah but as a younger player he used to be much better at it. He doesn't have the quicks that he used to, clearly.