FOR ALL THOSE WHO INSIST THAT WE DRAFT A QB FIRST

[Brooklyn Dave]

For all the Eli Mannings, Joe Burrows, JD Strouds , Peyton Mannings, John Elways, first picks in the NFL Draft who have succeeded, the following are either 1st or second picks in the draft who have not:

Jamarous Russell
Sam Darnold
Zach Wilson
David Carr
Sam Bradford
Rick Mirrer
Mitch Trubitsky
Jameis Winston
Tim Couch
Vince Young
Robert Griffin
Ryan Leaf

WE have so many needs , the most glaring being the OL , that maybe drafting a so called ," franchise QB " with our first pick might not be the smartest move.

Jones is being paid $40 million next year and any QB we draft will sit behind him unless he gets hurt, so our first round pick if it is a QB will noit improve our team at all, while an OL if he is the right one , and edge rusher or a legitimate ACE receiver would . As respects the latter only Marvin Harrison JR or Keon Coleman would fit that requirement .

[Quick Kick]

We need 3 more O linemen, not 1 more. Schmitz and Thomas are solid-the rest are 2nd and 3rd string back ups. 

[GeauxJints]

For all the Eli Mannings, Joe Burrows, JD Strouds , Peyton Mannings, John Elways, first picks in the NFL Draft who have succeeded, the following are either 1st or second picks in the draft who have not:

Jamarous Russell
Sam Darnold
Zach Wilson
David Carr
Sam Bradford
Rick Mirrer
Mitch Trubitsky
Jameis Winston
Tim Couch
Vince Young
Robert Griffin
Ryan Leaf

WE have so many needs , the most glaring being the OL , that maybe drafting a so called ," franchise QB " with our first pick might not be the smartest move.

Jones is being paid $40 million next year and any QB we draft will sit behind him unless he gets hurt, so our first round pick if it is a QB will noit improve our team at all, while an OL if he is the right one , and edge rusher or a legitimate ACE receiver would . As respects the latter only Marvin Harrison JR or Keon Coleman would fit that requirement .

So you think Schoen has a better track record drafting OL than QB??

[JT39]

A QB will be one of our first three picks. It wouldnt shock me if we trade back in the first round for a QB.

We need one. The Jones Era is over. Blame whoeveer you want, whether or not you think he is good. Its irrelevant now. We need a change in the franchise.

We are an unwatchable product right now. Yes we need WRs. And a TE. And OL. But we need a QB.

[Doc16LT56]

Have you seen the list of all the OL, WR, and pass rushers who are busts? Evan Neal, for example, was widely regarded as a can't miss player. Not only has he been terrible his first two years, but he's also gotten injured several times.

As far as a rookie sitting behind Daniel Jones due to Jones' salary, that is highly doubtful. Jones sat behind Eli for what? Two games? That was despite Eli being one of the highest paid players in the league, nevermind that Eli's resume dwarfs Jones'.

Bottom line, there is no guarantee the Giants will be in a position to draft a franchise QB but if they do, Jones' career as the Giants starter is effectively over.

[Ed Vette]

The large caps may be loud enough for Schoen to hear because he's the man you have to convince. I'm sure he's well aware of that. But let's say for example that he trades down and still picks a QB like Nix, McCarthy or Maye who has not played up, later in the first or early second round. And DJ with perhaps better players winds up having a great season and the Giants lead the Division, will Daboll pull Jones late in the season to test his Draft QB?

[T200]

There is no tried and true order to build a team. Different combinations have failed; different combinations have worked. Every situation that didn't work can be countered by one that did, and vice versa. We all have our preference but it doesn't mean that we are right and others are wrong.

Schoen and his staff need to do their homework and make the best decisions they feel will move this franchise in the right direction. Make the choices and live with them. No matter which direction they take, there will be those who don't agree and will not be happy. Oh well. C'est la vie.

[EDjohnst1981]

Cool, stand pat with a middling QB (at best), that struggles to stay on the field.

Let's just rinse and repeat because a mistake was made in re-signing him.

[Gmo11]

If you aren't picking a position because of the chance of it busting, you simply won't be picking any position at all.  They all have the potential to bust.  They also have the potential to hit.  And right now, the biggest problem the Giants have, is at QB.  Even bigger than the OL.  And, prior to this useless winning streak they had a chance to pick one of the best QBs in one of the best QB drafts in a long time.  Now...who knows what will happen. 

But if they have a chance to take a QB, a guy like Daniels this year is still better than what's expected to come out next year so they should do it.

[Bob In PA]

There is no tried and true order to build a team.

Tim: Your statement is true, but IMO that's primarily because you're competing with 31 other teams.

They all also know a bit about football, so without dumb luck, you often find yourself in a bind.

My point is... the correct way to build a team IMO is to get the QB last (or in the final stage of building along with the final few other players you need). I believe that almost any college QB from a major school can come in and get his confidence (and therefore succeed) if placed in an ideal situation from the start.

It didn't used to be that way, though. The norm was to get your man one or two years "early" and let him learn from the starter while you added the rest of the players needed to surround the new guy with a solid starting point. 

That's not possible in today's salary cap era, IMO.

Bob

[Gmo11]

Tim: Your statement is true, but IMO that's primarily because you're competing with 31 other teams.

They all also know a bit about football, so without dumb luck, you often find yourself in a bind.

My point is... the correct way to build a team IMO is to get the QB last (or in the final stage of building along with the final few other players you need). I believe that almost any college QB from a major school can come in and get his confidence (and therefore succeed) if placed in an ideal situation from the start.

It didn't used to be that way, though. The norm was to get your man one or two years "early" and let him learn from the starter while you added the rest of the players needed to surround the new guy with a solid starting point. 

That's not possible in today's salary cap era, IMO.

Bob

In a perfect world...where you build up the team while also stinking enough to position yourself to draft a QB, in a good QB Draft year, then sure you take the QB last.  The problem is it rarely works out that way.  If the team around a bad QB is good enough, they won't be in a spot to draft a QB.  Look at what the Giants are currently doing just with Devito.  That guy isn't good by any stretch of the imagination...but he's won 2 games.  And played the Giants right out of the Caleb Williams/Drake Maye conversation. 

This is a great year for QBs.  If the Giants are in position to take one when it's all said and done they probably should do it.  They are good enough around that QB position that even if they aren't great next year they will be significantly better than this year.  And if they wait until next season to draft a QB they will be picking one in a much worse year for QBs and likely later in the draft. 

Ironically the perfect time for them to have implemented your strategy was the year they drafted Jones.  That year was a terrible year for QBs and the Giants were so terrible that picking one likely wouldn't have made much of a difference (it didn't) and the following season was significantly better.  So that year they should absolutely have said "we'll build up the team, let Eli have a swan song season, lose a bunch, trade the farm for Tua/Herbert/Burrow if necessary, and bring one of those studs onto team that's somewhat formed.

[T200]

Tim: Your statement is true, but IMO that's primarily because you're competing with 31 other teams.

They all also know a bit about football, so without dumb luck, you often find yourself in a bind.

My point is... the correct way to build a team IMO is to get the QB last (or in the final stage of building along with the final few other players you need). I believe that almost any college QB from a major school can come in and get his confidence (and therefore succeed) if placed in an ideal situation from the start.

It didn't used to be that way, though. The norm was to get your man one or two years "early" and let him learn from the starter while you added the rest of the players needed to surround the new guy with a solid starting point. 

That's not possible in today's salary cap era, IMO.

Bob

Bob,

I know it's a matter of semantics. To me, if it works, it's correct.

To me, your scenario is ideal. It's like Rich's post about top QBs and the type of environments they went to. Some were QB-friendly and others weren't.

Some years ago, there was talk here of 'shiny hood ornaments' in reference to wide receivers and how the 'car' needs to be pretty much completed before adding flashy accessories. I don't think they've moved up the food chain in terms of importance in team building but in today's passing league, I can see an argument that they have.

I'm of the opinion that if a team is sold on a QB regardless of the current composition of the roster, they have to make reasonable moves to get him.

[T200]

Ironically the perfect time for them to have implemented your strategy was the year they drafted Jones.  That year was a terrible year for QBs and the Giants were so terrible that picking one likely wouldn't have made much of a difference (it didn't) and the following season was significantly better. So that year they should absolutely have said "we'll build up the team, let Eli have a swan song season, lose a bunch, trade the farm for Tua/Herbert/Burrow if necessary, and bring one of those studs onto team that's somewhat formed.

All of this right here. 

[Bob In PA]

In a perfect world...where you build up the team while also stinking enough to position yourself to draft a QB, in a good QB Draft year, then sure you take the QB last.  The problem is it rarely works out that way.  If the team around a bad QB is good enough, they won't be in a spot to draft a QB.  Look at what the Giants are currently doing just with Devito.  That guy isn't good by any stretch of the imagination...but he's won 2 games.  And played the Giants right out of the Caleb Williams/Drake Maye conversation. 

This is a great year for QBs.  If the Giants are in position to take one when it's all said and done they probably should do it.  They are good enough around that QB position that even if they aren't great next year they will be significantly better than this year.  And if they wait until next season to draft a QB they will be picking one in a much worse year for QBs and likely later in the draft. 

Ironically the perfect time for them to have implemented your strategy was the year they drafted Jones.  That year was a terrible year for QBs and the Giants were so terrible that picking one likely wouldn't have made much of a difference (it didn't) and the following season was significantly better.  So that year they should absolutely have said "we'll build up the team, let Eli have a swan song season, lose a bunch, trade the farm for Tua/Herbert/Burrow if necessary, and bring one of those studs onto team that's somewhat formed.

gm: Maybe you said it better than I did, but essentially we're agreeing almost completely. Bob

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

I know it's a matter of semantics. To me, if it works, it's correct.

To me, your scenario is ideal. It's like Rich's post about top QBs and the type of environments they went to. Some were QB-friendly and others weren't.

Some years ago, there was talk here of 'shiny hood ornaments' in reference to wide receivers and how the 'car' needs to be pretty much completed before adding flashy accessories. I don't think they've moved up the food chain in terms of importance in team building but in today's passing league, I can see an argument that they have.

I'm of the opinion that if a team is sold on a QB regardless of the current composition of the roster, they have to make reasonable moves to get him.

Tim: I can't disagree with anything you said. Bob