Most know I have been a baseball umpire for well over 40 years now and always considered myself a good to very good knowledgeable person as far as rules go. So if anyone ahs any rules questions, ask away and I'll see what I can do to answer them.
When they the stat line for a player at bat, what does OPS mean?
Quote from: jimv on October 14, 2014, 12:58:30 PM
When they the stat line for a player at bat, what does OPS mean?
Jim, allow me.
OPS is the combination of the players "on base" percentage plus their "slugging" percentage. Basically, it is used to measure not only a players ability to get on base, but to hit for power also.
An OPS of .900 is phenomenal. .700 denotes an average player's OPS.
This is all part of the new sabermetrics way of measuring players. David Cone in particular loves sabermetrics. This and other sabermetrics measures sprang forth in the mid 1980's from a book called "The Hidden Game of Baseball". peter Gammons then championed the heck out of it and it has slowly wormed its way into most of baseball.
Most of their stats involve adjustments for the player based on the park and the league in which he plays.
For me the purist, I have not warmed to it at all. If I had to make my living as a GM I would probably give it more attention and credence.
Hope this helps.
Lenn, acouple of years ago at the pro level they outlawed the pitcher doing the fake to 3rd then throw to first with runners on the corners.
Why did they outlaw it ? And was it forbidden at other levels as well ?
honestly, I never saw the harm in it.
THANKS, Obs!!! Now I know it's just another stat that I can ignore. It's like that new fangled PFF in the NFL. I don't have a clue what the numbers mean & how they're arrived at. And, to be honest, I don't care! I can see with my eyes whether a guy is playing well or not.
Not a question but I remember hearing something interesting back in September. You guys probably already know about this but back in September when Giancarlo Stanton was hit in the face by Mike Fiers it was ruled a strike as apparently he swung at the pitch, making the count 0-2. Because he couldn't continue Reed Johnson came in to pinch hit with an 0-2 count. Fiers then hit Johnson, who, it was ruled also swung at the pitch during the act of getting hit. So two batters both get HBP in the same at bat, and the end result is a strikeout. I wonder if that's ever happened before in MLB.
Quote from: nygsem on October 15, 2014, 07:23:21 PM
Not a question but I remember hearing something interesting back in September. You guys probably already know about this but back in September when Giancarlo Stanton was hit in the face by Mike Fiers it was ruled a strike as apparently he swung at the pitch, making the count 0-2. Because he couldn't continue Reed Johnson came in to pinch hit with an 0-2 count. Fiers then hit Johnson, who, it was ruled also swung at the pitch during the act of getting hit. So two batters both get HBP in the same at bat, and the end result is a strikeout. I wonder if that's ever happened before in MLB.
That is a heck of a question. I never knew how the at bat finished because all the focus of course was on Stanton.
But, I am sure deep in the computerized bowels of MLB they would know. I have never heard of it happening, but they have been playing this game for a long long time. there is probably a website somewhere that can connect you with an answer. If I find out I will post it and shoot you a PM.
Thanks Mike. It's weird for sure. I know it's the only time I've ever heard of it happening. Although I've been following baseball since the mid-60's, I do so much less than now when I was a teen, prior to free agency. Back then I knew most team's rosters it seemed. Now, aside from watching most of the Yankee games, I no longer pay much attention to the sport except at World Series time.
Quote from: jimv on October 14, 2014, 12:58:30 PM
When they the stat line for a player at bat, what does OPS mean?
GO already explained it to you, but is THAT a rules question? :o :o :o :o
I know nothing of stats as I don't follow baseball, but GO was nice enough to explain it to you.
Quote from: nygsem on October 16, 2014, 10:43:54 AM
Thanks Mike. It's weird for sure. I know it's the only time I've ever heard of it happening. Although I've been following baseball since the mid-60's, I do so much less than now when I was a teen, prior to free agency. Back then I knew most team's rosters it seemed. Now, aside from watching most of the Yankee games, I no longer pay much attention to the sport except at World Series time.
The great thing about watching the Yankees is the Yes Network. Best camera coverage from every angle.
And, if that incident had happened at a Yankee game they would have had the answer to your question. They seem to have a guy plugged into Elias and within an inning of anything happening tell you if/when it ever happened, no matter what the incident/record or rule.
Quote from: Giant Obsession on October 15, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Lenn, acouple of years ago at the pro level they outlawed the pitcher doing the fake to 3rd then throw to first with runners on the corners.
Why did they outlaw it ? And was it forbidden at other levels as well ?
honestly, I never saw the harm in it.
The play you speak of was changed just this past year. It is now a balk to do that 'fake to 3rd, spin around and throw to 1st'. Why it was changed, believe me, I have no idea, either does most of my fellow umpires. The only thing we could think of, in an effort to try and speed the game up, and that play NEVER caught anyone, was to basically penalize the pitcher for trying it.
As of yet, this new rule hasn't filtered down to college or HS baseball, but I expect it to in the next year or so. In HS, I have seen the play work every once in a while, but many pitchers abuse it, doing it 2,3 even 4 times in a row.
Apologies Lenn, I just realized I am partially guilty for taking this thread askew. Will modify immediately and make a new threat with my rant.
Mike
\ Don't bother. It's fine. I enjoy the banter.
Quote from: nygsem on October 15, 2014, 07:23:21 PM
Not a question but I remember hearing something interesting back in September. You guys probably already know about this but back in September when Giancarlo Stanton was hit in the face by Mike Fiers it was ruled a strike as apparently he swung at the pitch, making the count 0-2. Because he couldn't continue Reed Johnson came in to pinch hit with an 0-2 count. Fiers then hit Johnson, who, it was ruled also swung at the pitch during the act of getting hit. So two batters both get HBP in the same at bat, and the end result is a strikeout. I wonder if that's ever happened before in MLB.
That is a pretty unusual thing. Something like ONE batter getting HBP, and having a strike called on him because he swung is an unusual thing in itself, but twice in the same at bat is probably a new record.
Things like this usually happen on a bunt, when the batter squares to bunt and the ball comes in on him, but the way batters crowd the plate now and pitchers are determined to pitch inside, I can see it happening more and more.
Quote from: LennG on October 16, 2014, 12:29:59 PM
Mike
\ Don't bother. It's fine. I enjoy the banter.
Lenn, appreciate it, but I know how i feel when threads go off line and I do appreciate the fact you are volunteering your expertise. I love the rules of baseball, and your explanation to my question rang my memory bell. I do believe that was the complaint (slowing the game down).
I also have seen that play work once but seen it tried hundreds of times.
My favorite play was always the "hidden ball trick", which I know Gene Michael pulled off 3 or 4 times in his career as a Yankee. Great part of that play was the pitcher had to be off the mound or was it off the rubber ?(correct me if i am wrong). I have only seen it once in maybe the last 20-30 years which amazes me because todays modern players are half asleep on the basepaths sometimes...poster child "Robbie Cano".
Thanks again for your explanation.
Mike
The hidden ball trick is very difficult to pull off because most teams call time as soon as a play is over. This is especially true in HS ball. Why, I have no idea, it's just they are taught that from LL on up, call time and nothing more can happen. As an umpire, we have the right not to grant time, and I usually don't unless a player needs time. But anyway, if time is called then the pitcher has to go back on the rubber to put the ball in play, nullifying the hidden ball trick.
As to where the pitcher has to be, has always been a bone of contention. The rule book specifically says the pitcher can't be 'on or astride the rubber' without the ball. Never even mentions being off the mound comp[lately, but that seems to have always been the accepted rule, like he must be in the grass area, off the mound. Where this came from, I don't know but that is what I follow.
Since most of my games are 2 man games, it is hard sometimes to even know when, or if, a team is trying the hidden ball trick. I'm not sure if my partner called time, who has the ball. Sometimes a team will come over to me, sort of whispering that they are going to do it so be aware. That is the best way . I see it work maybe once a year, rarely on a HS level, mostly summer league ball. But hey, if we can get an easy out, go for it. :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: nygsem on October 15, 2014, 07:23:21 PM
Not a question but I remember hearing something interesting back in September. You guys probably already know about this but back in September when Giancarlo Stanton was hit in the face by Mike Fiers it was ruled a strike as apparently he swung at the pitch, making the count 0-2. Because he couldn't continue Reed Johnson came in to pinch hit with an 0-2 count. Fiers then hit Johnson, who, it was ruled also swung at the pitch during the act of getting hit. So two batters both get HBP in the same at bat, and the end result is a strikeout. I wonder if that's ever happened before in MLB.
Another little bit of information about that at bat is Stanton also has the strikeout on his record.
Bill
Quote from: ps11yat14 on October 16, 2014, 06:20:53 PM
Quote from: nygsem on October 15, 2014, 07:23:21 PM
Not a question but I remember hearing something interesting back in September. You guys probably already know about this but back in September when Giancarlo Stanton was hit in the face by Mike Fiers it was ruled a strike as apparently he swung at the pitch, making the count 0-2. Because he couldn't continue Reed Johnson came in to pinch hit with an 0-2 count. Fiers then hit Johnson, who, it was ruled also swung at the pitch during the act of getting hit. So two batters both get HBP in the same at bat, and the end result is a strikeout. I wonder if that's ever happened before in MLB.
Another little bit of information about that at bat is Stanton also has the strikeout on his record.
Bill
Thanks Bill. I was wondering who the K went to.
If I am not mistaken, if a batter assumes the count with 1 strike on him, and he then strikes out, it is on him, but if he comes up with 2 strikes then it is on the batter he replaced.
Quote from: LennG on October 16, 2014, 07:19:20 PM
If I am not mistaken, if a batter assumes the count with 1 strike on him, and he then strikes out, it is on him, but if he comes up with 2 strikes then it is on the batter he replaced.
Absolutely correct on that Lenn.
Lenn,
A thought....is there any way this thread can be pinned so it stays at the top. i personally would love it and find your knowledge very useful.
Mike
You have to ask Rich to do that.
How about some 'knotty problems ,a s we like to refer to them.
I got this out of my paper
What do you guys think the correct ruling is
Jack Cust is on first base for the Athletics with one out. Eric Chavez hits a drive to deep center field. Cust assumes that the ball will fall in and is halfway to third. But no! Vernon Wells makes a spectacular catch. Cust now tries to get back to first. But on his way back to first, he misses second. Wells spins and throws the ball back to the first, but his throw sails over the head of Curtis Thigpen and the ball rolls into the dugout. Cust gets back to first. But now Bob Geren is out claiming that Cust is entitled to third because of the bad throw. John Gibbons wants his team to appeal that Cust missed second.
What's the correct call.
Quote from: LennG on October 18, 2014, 11:19:17 AM
How about some 'knotty problems ,a s we like to refer to them.
I got this out of my paper
What do you guys think the correct ruling is
Jack Cust is on first base for the Athletics with one out. Eric Chavez hits a drive to deep center field. Cust assumes that the ball will fall in and is halfway to third. But no! Vernon Wells makes a spectacular catch. Cust now tries to get back to first. But on his way back to first, he misses second. Wells spins and throws the ball back to the first, but his throw sails over the head of Curtis Thigpen and the ball rolls into the dugout. Cust gets back to first. But now Bob Geren is out claiming that Cust is entitled to third because of the bad throw. John Gibbons wants his team to appeal that Cust missed second.
What's the correct call.
Since Cust missed 2nd base in getting back to first, he has to retrace and touch 2nd before touching first. On appeal, Cust is ruled out, therefore nullifying the 2 bases he would have gotten on the overthrow if he had retraced correctly. No shortcuts on the basepaths allowed in baseball, you gotta touch em all, both backwards and forwards.
Mike
Your answer is correct, but you missed what many people think takes precedence, that the throw went into dead territory, and the baserunner should be awarded 2 bases, since the ball in now dead.
Here is the ruling right from the rule book
Rule 7.10 (b):
With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.
So before the next pitch, the Blue Jays pitcher throws an appeal to second base, steps on it, and Cust is declared out.
Normally, the runner could try and go back and touch the missed base but because the ball went dead, he is not allowed to. As soon as they put the ball in play, the appeal is made and the runner is called out. The overthrow on him means nothing.
Quote from: LennG on October 18, 2014, 08:28:34 PM
Mike
Your answer is correct, but you missed what many people think takes precedence, that the throw went into dead territory, and the baserunner should be awarded 2 bases, since the ball in now dead.
Here is the ruling right from the rule book
Rule 7.10 (b):
With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.
So before the next pitch, the Blue Jays pitcher throws an appeal to second base, steps on it, and Cust is declared out.
Normally, the runner could try and go back and touch the missed base but because the ball went dead, he is not allowed to. As soon as they put the ball in play, the appeal is made and the runner is called out. The overthrow on him means nothing.
Totally understand Lenn. My reasoning was that the first infraction has precedent regardless of what subsequently happened.
If the overthrow lets say hits the wall behind first and caroms into short right field instead, Cust would have to go touch second and then go back to first before he could try advancing on the overthrow. Is that correct ?
I love baseball rules, one of my favorites is the catcher committing a balk during an intentional walk. Another reasons these heads of baseball are crazy when talking about the intentional walk becoming automatic , it doesn't happen often, but things do/can happen on an intentional walk.
Thanks for making your knowledge available. i imagine if you do softball also that is quite a lot of different rules to remember.
Mike (or anyone else who wants to participate)
You seem pretty good at this. For several years here, I used to put up a baseball quiz, on the rules, before each baseball season started.
Here are a few of the questions, I'll continue with a few each week
1) Man on 1st. Pitcher deliver's the pitch and the umpire calls a BALK on the pitch. The batter swings at the pitch and hit's a single with the runner from first going third.
What is the official call??
2) Man on 2nd with 1 out. Batter hits an infield pop up. The shortstop, while going to try and catch the ball, runs into the base runner who is standing on 2nd base. The base runner didn't interfere with the fielder, but made no, effort to get out of the way. The ball dropped in the infield and everyone is safe.
What's the call.
3)Runner on 1st with 1 out. On a 3-2 pitch to the batter, the runner goes. Batter swings and misses and his momentum carries him over home plate and interferes with the catcher trying to throw the runner out.
What's the call??
4) What's the call in these situations
a-- Batted ball hit's 3rd base and caroms into the dugout.???
b- Batted ball hit's the pitchers rubber and caroms into the dugout???
c- Batted ball hits an umpire standing in the infield before passing a fielder, and caroms into the dugout. ???
5) Bases loaded, batter hits a soft line drive to the 2nd baseman who lets the ball hit his glove and drops it intentionally. He then proceeds to turn a double play.
Legal???????
First of all, I agree with you on intentional walks, Obs. As a matter of fact, in last week's playoffs, one of the pitches got by the catcher & a run scored from third base.
I'll take a crack at your questions, Lenny:
1.) Once the balk is called, the ball is dead. Runner on first advances to second.
2.) Everyone's safe.
3.) Batter is out on strike out. Runner is returned to first because of batter's interference. Two out, runner on first.
4. a.) Fair ball. Ball dead. Batter takes first base.
b.)
c.)
5.) First of all, what do you call "soft line drive?" And, how many are out? If there two out, the ball is in play regardless. Less than two out, it depends on whether or not the ump calls the infield fly. If he does, the batter is out & a base runner can only advance at his own peril.
Jim
I won't divulge the answers just yet, but you need to go back and reread your rule book. Quickly looking you got one correct, another partially and the rest, well, I'm glad you ain't my partner on game day. =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =))
Quote from: LennG on October 20, 2014, 06:53:35 PM
Mike (or anyone else who wants to participate)
You seem pretty good at this. For several years here, I used to put up a baseball quiz, on the rules, before each baseball season started.
Here are a few of the questions, I'll continue with a few each week
1) Man on 1st. Pitcher deliver's the pitch and the umpire calls a BALK on the pitch. The batter swings at the pitch and hit's a single with the runner from first going third.
What is the official call??
2) Man on 2nd with 1 out. Batter hits an infield pop up. The shortstop, while going to try and catch the ball, runs into the base runner who is standing on 2nd base. The base runner didn't interfere with the fielder, but made no, effort to get out of the way. The ball dropped in the infield and everyone is safe.
What's the call.
3)Runner on 1st with 1 out. On a 3-2 pitch to the batter, the runner goes. Batter swings and misses and his momentum carries him over home plate and interferes with the catcher trying to throw the runner out.
What's the call??
4) What's the call in these situations
a-- Batted ball hit's 3rd base and caroms into the dugout.???
b- Batted ball hit's the pitchers rubber and caroms into the dugout???
c- Batted ball hits an umpire standing in the infield before passing a fielder, and caroms into the dugout. ???
5) Bases loaded, batter hits a soft line drive to the 2nd baseman who lets the ball hit his glove and drops it intentionally. He then proceeds to turn a double play.
Legal???????
Okay, let me have a crack.
1. Once a balk is called anything after the call does not occur. Normally ther umpire will jump out from behind home plate to make the call, thus play is stopped automatically. Runner advances to 2nd on balk.
2. A runner HAS to make every effort to not interfere physically with a fielder. In short he has to make every effort. In this instance both runner on 2nd and batter on who hit the pop up are out...double play the nonconventional way. Not making an effort the umpire could rule "intentional" interference, which is what I am basing my answer on. If unintentional, everyone is safe.
3. Batter is of course out...runner is returned to first base because of the interference.
4. All 3 are part of the field of play, thus a single is awarded in each instance.
5. Batter out, runners advance at their own risk....not so basic "infield fly rule", but still the same principle. This one I am not sure of. my answer is based on the "intentional". Tells me the umpire has ruled the catchability of the ball is very routine and thus would immediate call out "infield fly rule".
I will go with GOs answers except with #4 I am thinking that because the ball goes into the dugout the runner would be awarded 2nd base.
Bill
Quote from: LennG on October 20, 2014, 09:26:01 PM
Jim
I won't divulge the answers just yet, but you need to go back and reread your rule book. Quickly looking you got one correct, another partially and the rest, well, I'm glad you ain't my partner on game day. =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =))
So am I! :ok:
Mike
nice try, but like Jim, most are not correct.
Want to try again, or are you guys ready for the answers?
Bring them on, Lenny.
BTW, I just came up with an idea. :o Why don't you publish a book called "Baseball Rules for Dummies?"
Compared to some, I am the 'dummy'. :o :o :o :o
I consider myself better than the average umpire at the knowledge of the rules, but, like many other things, many rules are open to interpretation, as you will see in one of my answers.
I'll wait for Mike to see if he wants to take another crack at it before I'll reveal the correct rulings
Quote from: LennG on October 21, 2014, 11:46:24 AM
Compared to some, I am the 'dummy'. :o :o :o :o
I consider myself better than the average umpire at the knowledge of the rules, but, like many other things, many rules are open to interpretation, as you will see in one of my answers.
I'll wait for Mike to see if he wants to take another crack at it before I'll reveal the correct rulings
Lenn, go ahead with the answers. You got the best of me, I actually thought each one through carefully without doing research. Since I am 60 I actually have been trying to use my head more, sometimes to no benefit :doh:
Quote from: LennG on October 21, 2014, 11:46:24 AM
Compared to some, I am the 'dummy'. :o :o :o :o
I consider myself better than the average umpire at the knowledge of the rules, but, like many other things, many rules are open to interpretation, as you will see in one of my answers.
I'll wait for Mike to see if he wants to take another crack at it before I'll reveal the correct rulings
Quote from: LennG on October 20, 2014, 06:53:35 PM
Mike (or anyone else who wants to participate)
You seem pretty good at this. For several years here, I used to put up a baseball quiz, on the rules, before each baseball season started.
Here are a few of the questions, I'll continue with a few each week
1) Man on 1st. Pitcher deliver's the pitch and the umpire calls a BALK on the pitch. The batter swings at the pitch and hit's a single with the runner from first going third.
What is the official call??
2) Man on 2nd with 1 out. Batter hits an infield pop up. The shortstop, while going to try and catch the ball, runs into the base runner who is standing on 2nd base. The base runner didn't interfere with the fielder, but made no, effort to get out of the way. The ball dropped in the infield and everyone is safe.
What's the call.
3)Runner on 1st with 1 out. On a 3-2 pitch to the batter, the runner goes. Batter swings and misses and his momentum carries him over home plate and interferes with the catcher trying to throw the runner out.
What's the call??
4) What's the call in these situations
a-- Batted ball hit's 3rd base and caroms into the dugout.???
b- Batted ball hit's the pitchers rubber and caroms into the dugout???
c- Batted ball hits an umpire standing in the infield before passing a fielder, and caroms into the dugout. ???
5) Bases loaded, batter hits a soft line drive to the 2nd baseman who lets the ball hit his glove and drops it intentionally. He then proceeds to turn a double play.
Legal???????
OK guys. I wasn't trying to fool anyone with any sort of trick questions, but most people, even announcers like McCarver, when he was doing games, don't know the correct rulings on most things. They go with what they think makes the most sense. sometimes that should be correct, but with MLB the rules are the rules.
#1. When a pitcher is in the delivery of a pitch and he balks, it is what is known as a delayed dead ball. That means if the batter reaches first base and all runners move up one base then the balk is ignored. If either of those criteria are not met, then the balk is enforced, the batter remains at bat and each runner is awarded one base. This type of balk can be when the pitcher doesn't come to a complete stop before delivering the ball. The umpire will call the balk but not jump out from behind home plate. Again, a delayed dead ball.
BTW, if you guys were HS umpires, your call would be correct. In HS it is a dead ball as soon as the ump calls balk. I called this last year and the guy swung at the pitch and hit a HR. The crowd was cheering like crazy until I had to inform him that it wasn't a HR and he is still at bat.
#2. If a runner is occupying a base and a play is happening right near him, he does NOT have to move out of the way, as long as he remains on the base and is not forced to move. As long as he doesn't interfere with the player trying to make a play on the ball, he is safe on his base. You cannot call interference if he doesn't interfere. Now he cannot move in a way to impede the defensive players ability to make a play. Everyone is safe.
#3 Both you guys got the main gist of this correct, only there could be more and SHOULD be more. Since the batter swung and missed, strike 3, he is out, NOW he is over the plate and he interferes with the catcher trying to throw out a base runner. YES indeed it is interference, but since the guy is already out on the strike out, he again needs to be penalized for the interference. A DP should be called with the runner out on the interference by the batter. The better umpires will always call this, but you will always get an argument because coaches think like every one else, the batter is out, runner goes back, so many umpires at lower level ball just stick with this and avoid the necessary argument. It is NOT the correct call.
#4
A--Ball is dead, runner gets 2nd base. It was a fair ball that left the field of play, Like a fair ball bouncing into the stands.
B-Foul ball, just a strike on the batter. The Pitchers plate is NOT beyond the bases, so if it hits the rubber and goes into foul or dead area it is a foul ball.
C- If a batted ball hits an umpire before it passes a fielder (and that is the key), it is automatically a dead ball and batter is awarded first base. Runners move up only if forced to do so. Doesn't matter if the ball then goes into dead area. Ball is dead as soon as it hit the ump. NOW if the umpire is behind the fielder then the ball would be alive and in play and if it went into dead area, yes, 2 bases, everyone moves up said amount.
#5
This is sort of a tricky one. First of all it is NOT an infield fly. A bunt or a soft line drive is NOT an infield fly. It has to be a regular pop up, easily fielded by an infielder (or outfielder coming in near the infield)./ Sorry Jim, I should have mentioned how many outs. So it is not in infield fly. The fielder cannot intentionally drop a ball to turn a DP. It may sound hard to do, but believe me, you can see it a mile away when a fielder sees an easy liner to him, let's it hit his glove and drops it in order to turn the DP. The ruling is an automatic out, ball is dead and nothing further can happen. Batter is out and runners can return to their respective bases. It has to be called immediately, and again, it is an easy call. As the players get older, like HS and college, they all try this. The ump has to be aware and make his call as soon as he sees the fielder drop the ball.
So there you have it. A lot more complicated than it appears to be, even some of the easy ones.
Let me know when you are ready for the next group?
OK baseball season is over, so there probably won't be much doing here for now. but, since you all watched that great WS, here is another question for you all
Bases loaded, 2 out. Batter hits a HR, over the wall. The defensive team thinks that the runner from 2nd, missed third. they make a legal appeal and the umpire calls him out.
How many runs scored???
Lenny, you have thrown several of these at me before. I have not read your answers, so I will give this a shot.
1) A balk is a no pitch; play is dead. Ergo, no hit; runner is awarded second base.
2) The runner owns second base, provided he is standing on the base prior to the fielder's attempt to play the ball. In other words, he does not interfere while returning to the base, nor, while standing on the base, he makes any type of movement that would interfere with the fielder's ability to make the play. Under these circumstances, runner is safe.
3) I believe this falls under the catcher's interference rule. The play continues until the ball is dead. The manager of the team in the field then gets the option: if the runner is thrown out, then strike out/throw out double play. If the runner is not thrown out, then the manager can demand the batter called out and the runner returned to first. An interesting scorer's question is whether the batter is scored as a strike out or an interference/put out to the catcher.
4)
a) Dead ball single. Runner gets first base; runners on base advance only by force.
b) The ball has not passed a base, the rubber is part of the field of play. Foul ball.
c) Very interesting question. In almost any case, the umpire would be located past any base, so the carom would have to somehow hit an umpire, then pass between home and a base out of the field of play for it to be a foul ball. Otherwise, if the ball it an ump past a base, then caromed into foul territory, the ball is live. If it continues into the dug out, dead ball single. Again, very unlikely to happen in the Majors, but in a high school game or lower level, where the balls and strikes umpire is positioned behind the pitcher, it could happen. A variation might happen when, on a bunt or slow roller down the line, an umpire, following the ball, might accidentally kick the ball into foul territory. In this case, the ball is foul and dead once it enters foul territory.
5) We argued this as to whether this was a rule change since the late 1970s. I remember Dodger shortstop Dave Russell pulling this play in the World Series against the Yankees and the umpire ruling it an infield fly. I have never been able to confirm my memory or any rule change. In any case, I believe that, at least today, this a perfectly legal play.
Now I will check your answers.
Brian
Quote from: bighitterdalama on December 10, 2014, 02:59:59 AM
Lenny, you have thrown several of these at me before. I have not read your answers, so I will give this a shot.
1) A balk is a no pitch; play is dead. Ergo, no hit; runner is awarded second base.
2) The runner owns second base, provided he is standing on the base prior to the fielder's attempt to play the ball. In other words, he does not interfere while returning to the base, nor, while standing on the base, he makes any type of movement that would interfere with the fielder's ability to make the play. Under these circumstances, runner is safe.
3) I believe this falls under the catcher's interference rule. The play continues until the ball is dead. The manager of the team in the field then gets the option: if the runner is thrown out, then strike out/throw out double play. If the runner is not thrown out, then the manager can demand the batter called out and the runner returned to first. An interesting scorer's question is whether the batter is scored as a strike out or an interference/put out to the catcher.
4)
a) Dead ball single. Runner gets first base; runners on base advance only by force.
b) The ball has not passed a base, the rubber is part of the field of play. Foul ball.
c) Very interesting question. In almost any case, the umpire would be located past any base, so the carom would have to somehow hit an umpire, then pass between home and a base out of the field of play for it to be a foul ball. Otherwise, if the ball it an ump past a base, then caromed into foul territory, the ball is live. If it continues into the dug out, dead ball single. Again, very unlikely to happen in the Majors, but in a high school game or lower level, where the balls and strikes umpire is positioned behind the pitcher, it could happen. A variation might happen when, on a bunt or slow roller down the line, an umpire, following the ball, might accidentally kick the ball into foul territory. In this case, the ball is foul and dead once it enters foul territory.
5) We argued this as to whether this was a rule change since the late 1970s. I remember Dodger shortstop Dave Russell pulling this play in the World Series against the Yankees and the umpire ruling it an infield fly. I have never been able to confirm my memory or any rule change. In any case, I believe that, at least today, this a perfectly legal play.
Now I will check your answers.
Brian
Brian
Sorry it has taken me so long to even see your post. I really don't come here when there isn't any baseball.
Since you already checked my answers you know which ones you go right and wrong.
on #3, you got your interferences mixed a bit. On catcher's INT, yes there is a choice by the offensive manager. If the batter is out, interference is called and the batter is awarded 1st base. But t offensive manager has a choice. Like if the batter flied out on the INT and a man tagged up from 3rd and scored. The offensive manager would have the option of putting the batter on 1st and bringing the man on 3rd back, or recording the out and having the tag up play count. In all my years of umpiring, I have seen ONE manager use this rule to his advantage. Most don't know and they accept whatever the umps say, usually putting the guy back and having a 1st and 3rd situation.
Any questions or discussions on this or any of the others, let me know.
Quote from: LennG on January 27, 2015, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: bighitterdalama on December 10, 2014, 02:59:59 AM
Lenny, you have thrown several of these at me before. I have not read your answers, so I will give this a shot.
1) A balk is a no pitch; play is dead. Ergo, no hit; runner is awarded second base.
2) The runner owns second base, provided he is standing on the base prior to the fielder's attempt to play the ball. In other words, he does not interfere while returning to the base, nor, while standing on the base, he makes any type of movement that would interfere with the fielder's ability to make the play. Under these circumstances, runner is safe.
3) I believe this falls under the catcher's interference rule. The play continues until the ball is dead. The manager of the team in the field then gets the option: if the runner is thrown out, then strike out/throw out double play. If the runner is not thrown out, then the manager can demand the batter called out and the runner returned to first. An interesting scorer's question is whether the batter is scored as a strike out or an interference/put out to the catcher.
4)
a) Dead ball single. Runner gets first base; runners on base advance only by force.
b) The ball has not passed a base, the rubber is part of the field of play. Foul ball.
c) Very interesting question. In almost any case, the umpire would be located past any base, so the carom would have to somehow hit an umpire, then pass between home and a base out of the field of play for it to be a foul ball. Otherwise, if the ball it an ump past a base, then caromed into foul territory, the ball is live. If it continues into the dug out, dead ball single. Again, very unlikely to happen in the Majors, but in a high school game or lower level, where the balls and strikes umpire is positioned behind the pitcher, it could happen. A variation might happen when, on a bunt or slow roller down the line, an umpire, following the ball, might accidentally kick the ball into foul territory. In this case, the ball is foul and dead once it enters foul territory.
5) We argued this as to whether this was a rule change since the late 1970s. I remember Dodger shortstop Dave Russell pulling this play in the World Series against the Yankees and the umpire ruling it an infield fly. I have never been able to confirm my memory or any rule change. In any case, I believe that, at least today, this a perfectly legal play.
Now I will check your answers.
Brian
Brian
Sorry it has taken me so long to even see your post. I really don't come here when there isn't any baseball.
Since you already checked my answers you know which ones you go right and wrong.
on #3, you got your interferences mixed a bit. On catcher's INT, yes there is a choice by the offensive manager. If the batter is out, interference is called and the batter is awarded 1st base. But t offensive manager has a choice. Like if the batter flied out on the INT and a man tagged up from 3rd and scored. The offensive manager would have the option of putting the batter on 1st and bringing the man on 3rd back, or recording the out and having the tag up play count. In all my years of umpiring, I have seen ONE manager use this rule to his advantage. Most don't know and they accept whatever the umps say, usually putting the guy back and having a 1st and 3rd situation.
Any questions or discussions on this or any of the others, let me know.
Do you spell out their options for them? Just curious.
Yes, if they come out and ask.
A smart manager would/should approach the umpire and ask what are his options on the catcher's interference. The umpire will explain his options and the manager would make that decision.
This rule only applies if the batter, who was interfered with, makes out. If he gets on base, the interference is ignored, even if he only got a single on what might have been a better hit. There is no option, or interference in that case.
Interesting that they have to ask what the options are, and if they don't the result falls to a default. I've been watching baseball since the 60's and I never thought about this. Are there any other scenarios that arise where a manager would have options that could dictate different results of the same play?
Steve
As far as I know, NO.
Again, as I said, the situation of options is very rare, basically because the scenario that I gave is their best option, either a run scores and the out, or two (or 3) men on base and we continue to play.
In the majors, catcher's interference is rare. Those guys know where to be so as to get as close to the plate as they can and still avoid the interference. You get the interference, a lot, in lower level ball, such as summer ball programs, HS and even college.
I'll give you another interesting play, which I have seen done several times.
Man on first, batter gets a base hit. Man on 1st goers to 3rd but misses 2nd base while running. The defensive team sees this and wants to appeal. If there is time out, the pitcher has to go back on the rubber, with the ball, to put the ball back in play. Once this happens, some smart managers, will send the guy on first to second. 99 out of 100, the pitcher will throw to 2nd to get the runner. When this happens, the runner from 3rd breaks for home and will score. Since there was a play made, there can be no appeal and the manager stole a run. Instead of there being another out with only a man on 1st, he has a run, same amount of outs and no once on. You probably will never see this in a ML game, because then can throw better and there is a good chance they might get the guy at the plate. But even at that, he would be out anyway on the appeal.
I had an unusual play the other day, so I thought I would relate this to you. It is more likely to happen in a HS game (which it did) then in a MLB game, but it could.
2 out, runner on 3rd, with a 1-1 count on the batter. Next pitch is in the dirt, batter swings and misses. He thought it was strike 3 so he starts to run to 1st base. Catcher also not knowing, sees the guy running so he throws to first thinking he is making the putout. In the meantime, the runner from 3rd, on the throw to 1st, scores. After all the confusion, I tell the batter it was only strike 2 and he is still up. Now the manager of the defense comes out and wants an interference call on the batter for running to 1st with only 2 strikes, even if it wasn't intentional.
Had to think about this one for a moment, as the batter should not have run on strike 2, which did cause the catcher to throw. BUT, and you knew there would be a but, the catcher has to be aware of the situation also and should not have thrown to 1st. That is exactly what I told the manager. All players on the field have their own responsibility to know the situation. The catcher should have known it was only strike 2 and never made that throw.
It is the same as with a runner on 1st stealing second on any strike 3 swinging out on the batter. Even if the catcher drops the ball, 1st base is considered occupied AT THE TIME OF THE PITCH, even though the runner was stealing. Many times the batter will try and run thinking 1st base is now unoccupied as the other runner was stealing. Even in this case the catcher has to know the rule and not throw down to 1st instead of trying to get the runner stealing.
Anyway, I did check with our rules interpreter and he agreed I made the right call.
When it comes to umpiring, YOU THE MAN!!!!!
Good one Lenn. :ok: