If both are available who should we take?
It's a virtual coin toss but if I had to pick I would take Howard as he is the better blocker.
To me it looks like post-combine, OJ Howard is the clear #1 TE. He ran a 4.51 which is astounding, while Njoku's best was 4.64, and is a better blocker.
I would say OJ Howard is the best offensive prospect in this draft.
Leonard Fournette might have something to say about that. Dudes that big aren't supposed to be that fast. If he can stay healthy, and that's a big if, he's Adrian Peterson...only BIGGER.
But to answer the question I've still got OJ Howard #1 as far as TEs go but it's pretty close and the Giants would be much improved with either one of them next season.
Both of these guys will probably be gone by pick 23. So you might want to also consider the round two options of
Evan Engram, South Alabama (a UKGiants favorite)
and
Bucky Hodges, Virginia Tech
Failing those this old fashioned TE who can block should be available in rounds 3 or 4
Jeremy Sprinkles, Arkansaw
Fournette is going to be a beast, and he may well have something to say about it!
Just to point it out, OJ Howard had exactly the same 40 time as Fournette, at 6'6 250.
I'm no expert, but I'd take Howard over Njoku in a heartbeat. Howard is bigger, stronger, faster and comes from a program where winning is an attitude, not just a stat.
Regardless, it's a moot point as he is not going to be available at 23 unless the "gods of football" is looking down and is a Giants' fan.
At TE you need to look at more than the 40 time. You need to consider height, weight and arm length (important for catching and blocking)
You need to consider the short shuttle and 3 cone (as a good indicator of being able to change direction)
You need to consider the bench press (a good indicator of strength)
The verticle leap and broad jump will show how explosive and lower body power the TE has
So with this in mind
Name OJ Howard David Njoku
Height 6' 5 6/8" 6' 4"
Arm 33 1/4" 35 1/4"
Weight 251 246
40 4.51 4.64
SS 4.16 4.34
3C 6.85 6.97
Vert 30" 37.5"
BJ 10' 1" 11' 1"
Bench 22 21
It would be an easy choice for me; IMO, Howard is more ready to contribute now and solid in more areas.
He blocks for the run better than about half of all current NFL offensive linemen (and about three-fourths of all NFL tight ends).
Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 07, 2017, 11:45:39 AM
Both of these guys will probably be gone by pick 23. So you might want to also consider the round two options of
Evan Engram, South Alabama (a UKGiants favorite)
and
Bucky Hodges, Virginia Tech
Failing those this old fashioned TE who can block should be available in rounds 3 or 4
Jeremy Sprinkles, Arkansaw
I think you can scratch Sprinkles from the Giants. He was arrested in 2014 and again during the 2016 Belk Bowl for shoplifting.
Both Engram and Hodges are converted WRs into TEs. Both of them have limited experience in the blocking department with neither of them having the lower body power base to ever be effective blockers. My theory is that the Giants have had enough of TEs who cannot block, so I would be surprised if they pulled the trigger on either of those. But you never know!
Quote from: todge on March 07, 2017, 03:09:35 PM
I think you can scratch Sprinkles from the Giants. He was arrested in 2014 and again during the 2016 Belk Bowl for shoplifting.
Both Engram and Hodges are converted WRs into TEs. Both of them have limited experience in the blocking department with neither of them having the lower body power base to ever be effective blockers. My theory is that the Giants have had enough of TEs who cannot block, so I would be surprised if they pulled the trigger on either of those. But you never know!
Ted,
I can find nothing on a 2014 arrest. What was that about? The shoplifting thing was minor thing and involved some sort of contest/promotion.
As for the other options, no doubt about it blocking would be something they would need to learn almost from scratch. However, both of these players would offer Eli a nice big target over the middle. Something Eli hasn't enjoyed since Ballard got hurt.
Give me Jordan Leggett from Clemson later in the draft.
To me it's the Player or the Athelete?
One has a credible resume, and the other is based largely on upside.
I chose Howard.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on March 07, 2017, 03:24:31 PM
Give me Jordan Leggett from Clemson later in the draft.
He's another intriguing prospect who may have gotten lost in the Combine hype due to not running the 40
Personally neither. I hope that we can sign Fassano as a FA. He's young, great blocker, and already an NFL starter.
I really think that it is truly a crap shoot with anyone other than Howard at the TE spot. We can't afford crap shoots right now. Eli only has a couple of decent years left.
IMHO...Cid
Quote from: Cid in Dupont on March 07, 2017, 03:54:31 PM
Personally neither. I hope that we can sign Fassano as a FA. He's young, great blocker, and already an NFL starter.
I really think that it is truly a crap shoot with anyone other than Howard at the TE spot. We can't afford crap shoots right now. Eli only has a couple of decent years left.
IMHO...Cid
Funny, rumor has it the Giants have interest in TE Anthony Fasano
I think there could be room to still draft a TE (especially as Fasano is up there in years). I wouldn't shed a tear of Will Tye loses his roster spot
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 07, 2017, 11:45:39 AM
Both of these guys will probably be gone by pick 23. So you might want to also consider the round two options of
Evan Engram, South Alabama (a UKGiants favorite)
and
Bucky Hodges, Virginia Tech
What makes you think Engram would be available in R2, especially as late as 55? Before the Combine I had him in my top 35.
As for Hodges let me be kind and describe myself as 'not a fan'. His worst traits are a cross between those of Donnell and Tye...
Quote from: todge on March 07, 2017, 03:09:35 PM
Both Engram and Hodges are converted WRs into TEs. Both of them have limited experience in the blocking department with neither of them having the lower body power base to ever be effective blockers.
Hodges, agreed. Engram? Nope. He doesn't need to block like Howard Cross to be effective. He sticks to his guy pretty good. Plenty of film showing that
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 07, 2017, 04:03:29 PM
Funny, rumor has it the Giants have interest in TE Anthony Fasano
And suddenly Engram at #23 becomes realistic. Put him Fasano, OBJ & Shepard on the field together and '12' personnel becomes '11' (or vice versa) very swiftly. Mismatches everywhere!!
Quote from: UKGiantsFan on March 07, 2017, 04:39:52 PM
What makes you think Engram would be available in R2, especially as late as 55? Before the Combine I had him in my top 35.
As for Hodges let me be kind and describe myself as 'not a fan'. His worst traits are a cross between those of Donnell and Tye...
Hodges, agreed. Engram? Nope. He doesn't need to block like Howard Cross to be effective. He sticks to his guy pretty good. Plenty of film showing that
And suddenly Engram at #23 becomes realistic. Put him Fasano, OBJ & Shepard on the field together and '12' personnel becomes '11' (or vice versa) very swiftly. Mismatches everywhere!!
OK thanks for info Ceri! I certainly put more credence in your scouting reports than others.
Quote from: Cid in Dupont on March 07, 2017, 03:54:31 PM
Personally neither. I hope that we can sign Fassano as a FA. He's young, great blocker, and already an NFL starter.
I really think that it is truly a crap shoot with anyone other than Howard at the TE spot. We can't afford crap shoots right now. Eli only has a couple of decent years left.
IMHO...Cid
That's an incredibly sober and reasonable position Cid. I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants do not draft a TE at all.
Quote from: UKGiantsFan on March 07, 2017, 04:39:52 PM
What makes you think Engram would be available in R2, especially as late as 55? Before the Combine I had him in my top 35.
As for Hodges let me be kind and describe myself as 'not a fan'. His worst traits are a cross between those of Donnell and Tye...
Hodges, agreed. Engram? Nope. He doesn't need to block like Howard Cross to be effective. He sticks to his guy pretty good. Plenty of film showing that
And suddenly Engram at #23 becomes realistic. Put him Fasano, OBJ & Shepard on the field together and '12' personnel becomes '11' (or vice versa) very swiftly. Mismatches everywhere!!
Ceri,
I am not seeing the love for Engram that you have among others in the draft community. I think his relatively short stature of 6' 3 3/8" may lower his draft stock a bit. I think many (myself included) prefer TEs to be 6' 5" or bigger.
I think Hodges is a bit of a project. He's a converted QB with only 3 seasons as a TE/WR. The tools are there and as a former QB his Football smarts are there. The team would just need to be patient with him in terms of learning how to block and refining his route running. I will say I am not happy with the drops that Hodges has.
I agree 100%. TE's should be at least 6'5", preferably in the 6'6"-6'7" range with a big bone build carrying 255 lbs or more without any fat.
Engram (6'3 1/4" - 234 lbs - 4.42:40yd with a 36" vertical) would be a steal if he was drafted strictly as a WR and would create nightmares for the defense in the red zone. He has the speed / height combo to make mismatches on the outside and can also be a massive target coming across the slot. He's never going to be big enough to be a good blocker so I don't know why he is even listed as a TE.
I watched a game and a half of Engram and I saw nearly a mirror image of Hodges. They both were used as TE/WR hybrids. Neither can block very well and they almost never lined up tight. Engram was used more as an oversized slot receiver while Hodges also lined up outside as well as slot.
Does the acquisition of Marshall lean us a little more on the blocking side for a TE?
Quote from: COGiantFan on March 08, 2017, 02:25:50 PM
Does the acquisition of Marshall lean us a little more on the blocking side for a TE?
Quite probably. I'd also go so far as to say it rules out the acquisition of a top receiving TE. Period. We'll be playing just as much '11' personnel as last year. Just with a top blocking WR and a TE who won't get rag-dolled on every play.
Quote from: COGiantFan on March 08, 2017, 02:25:50 PM
Does the acquisition of Marshall lean us a little more on the blocking side for a TE?
Ideally, the team gets a blocking TE who in a couple of years can be developed into a receiving threat (the time Marshall's contract runs out)
If we pick a TE in a defensive draft and JPP on a Franchise tag paying $16m and the O-Line we have then you had better damn well make sure we get an elite level player.