That's all, folks. Bob
The guy is a total gobshite.
He's a classless jerk..and Philly loves him emulating that scab of a town. :boooo:
What happened?
Quote from: afan56 on October 01, 2023, 06:16:38 PMWhat happened?
Seriously. OP assume we all know what he did.
@afan56 and
@TDToomer I am guessing it was the Eagles scoring a TD with over a minute thirty left on the clock rather than simply driving the field, milking the clock, and going for the FG and the sure win. The early TD and the taunting penalty allowed Washington to put the game into overtime.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 02, 2023, 08:22:40 AM@afan56 and @TDToomer
I am guessing it was the Eagles scoring a TD with over a minute thirty left on the clock rather than simply driving the field, milking the clock, and going for the FG and the sure win. The early TD and the taunting penalty allowed Washington to put the game into overtime.
The Taunting penalty was on AJ Brown right? How is that the coaches fault?
Quote from: TDToomer on October 02, 2023, 08:36:34 AMThe Taunting penalty was on AJ Brown right? How is that the coaches fault?
I am not looking to debate the issue, I am just trying to provide the missing context. The taunting only made the situation worse. All Siriani had to do was milk the clock and get close enough for a gimmie FG, and the game was over.
Quote from: afan56 on October 01, 2023, 06:16:38 PMWhat happened?
Bob1: What Rich (Mighty) said. Bob2 lol
Haha. I'm sure if we were 4-0 and just coming off a SB appearance and had a very young QB who was in the MVP race last year, and we routinely owned them every year for years, their fans would hate Daboll too.
Quote from: TDToomer on October 02, 2023, 08:36:34 AMThe Taunting penalty was on AJ Brown right? How is that the coaches fault?
TD: It's not. But don't tempt the football gods. He had a win against a division rival in his hip pocket.
You do NOT put the ball in the air. You do NOT do anything that gives them the ball with a chance to win or tie.
True JUSTICE would have been for Ron Rivera to step out of character, go for two, and win the game. He did not choose that option because it's just not a Ron Rivera move. He's a lot like Coughlin in that regard. /sarcasm/ If the same thing had happened to the Giants last year, Daboll would have gone for two, IMO.
Bob
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 02, 2023, 09:52:16 AMHaha. I'm sure if we were 4-0 and just coming off a SB appearance and had a very young QB who was in the MVP race last year, and we routinely owned them every year for years, their fans would hate Daboll too.
DB: Has nothing to do with that. Right now, he apparently has deceived himself into believing he is exempt from the ups and downs of the NFL.
He has little respect for the "lucky-ness" of the position in which he presently finds himself.
Thanks to the front office's brilliance (and the stupidity of the rest of the league generally) great players seeming fall from the sky INTO HIS LAP every year.
BUT HE WILL LEARN... the football gods will eventually get around to exacting their revenge.
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2023, 09:56:46 AMDB: Has nothing to do with that. Right now, he apparently has deceived himself into believing he is exempt from the ups and downs of the NFL.
He has little respect for the "lucky-ness" of the position in which he presently finds himself.
Thanks to the front office's brilliance (and the stupidity of the rest of the league generally) great players seeming fall from the sky INTO HIS LAP every year.
BUT HE WILL LEARN... the football gods will eventually get around to exacting their revenge.
Bob
He comes off as a jerk to me too. It wouldn't bother me though if we were at least somewhat competitive with his team.
Valid observation, i.e. criticism of Siriani. Except for the name-calling, not much different from that directed at the Giants players and staff by some folks.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on October 02, 2023, 10:10:04 AMExcept for the name-calling,
Larry: I thought departure from my usual rule of decorum was justified (and apt) under the unique set of circumstances. LOL
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2023, 10:19:44 AMLarry: I thought departure from my usual rule of decorum was justified (and apt) under the unique set of circumstances. LOL
Understood. Fair enough, Bob.
If you think about it... Siriani required his team to win yesterday's game TWICE (while getting credit in the standings for only a single win).
Pro players may be asked occasionally to do the impossible, the improbable or the unlikely, but they certainly do NOT appreciate being asked to do the unnecessary.
Just to mention one obvious contingency, a teammate key to their drive back to the Super Bowl could have been lost for the year during the overtime period.
Bob
Bob, Regardless if he is a horses ass, as you say, he wins football games. He is inventive (that new type of QB sneak) and he has taken a so-so QB and made him competitive for the league MVP.
Nothing against Daboill, but I would take him in a minute if he were to leave Philly and want to come here. Jerk or not, he wins.
Maybe I'm in the minority, not in hating Siriani or the Eagles but I didn't second-guess the move. There are so many things that can go wrong with the "milking the clock" scenario - you could become too predictable and not get enough rushing yardage to make the field goal "more makeable". You could miss the field goal or having something go wrong with the snap/spot operation, etc. I don't mind a coach staying aggressive, trusting his defense to carry the day and going for a kill shot.
I was disappointed that Ron Rivera didn't go for 2. Despite what was said here, that's DEFINITELY in his character - he's known as "Riverboat Ron" for a reason but for some reason yesterday stayed conservative.
Quote from: LennG on October 02, 2023, 10:59:51 AMBob, Regardless if he is a horses ass, as you say, he wins football games. He is inventive (that new type of QB sneak) and he has taken a so-so QB and made him competitive for the league MVP.
Nothing against Daboill, but I would take him in a minute if he were to leave Philly and want to come here. Jerk or not, he wins.
Lenn: Don't fall for the hype.
Siriani wins so many games ONLY because (1) he meets the minimum requirements for an NFL head coach; and (2) he has a group of players good enough to make up for his many mistakes.
Conversely, Daboll (or fill in any other name) fails to win as many games because (1) his players are not as good as Siriani's; and (2) he does not possess a magic wand which might enable him to overcome the discrepancy.
Bob
Quote from: zephirus on October 02, 2023, 11:22:16 AMMaybe I'm in the minority, not in hating Siriani or the Eagles but I didn't second-guess the move. There are so many things that can go wrong with the "milking the clock" scenario - you could become too predictable and not get enough rushing yardage to make the field goal "more makeable". You could miss the field goal or having something go wrong with the snap/spot operation, etc. I don't mind a coach staying aggressive, trusting his defense to carry the day and going for a kill shot.
I was disappointed that Ron Rivera didn't go for 2. Despite what was said here, that's DEFINITELY in his character - he's known as "Riverboat Ron" for a reason but for some reason yesterday stayed conservative.
Lee: As for the first paragraph, even if defensible for the many good reasons you cite, the move doesn't make sense because they are all true of ANY situation. Stuff can go wrong. What you're really arguing is that it is never a bad thing to score points. Maybe, but one of the smartest players in the league refused last night to score a touchdown against the Jets and took a knee to allow the clock run out and guaranty going home a winner.
As for the second paragraph, I was being sarcastic in comparing Rivera to Coughlin and forgot the sarcasm indicator. If it were against the Giants I have no doubt Riverboat Ron would have gone for two. I guess he just doesn't trust his young QB enough (or yet) in that situation, playing against a solid defense.
Bob
PS. Fixed it.
Quote from: zephirus on October 02, 2023, 11:22:16 AMMaybe I'm in the minority, not in hating Siriani or the Eagles but I didn't second-guess the move. There are so many things that can go wrong with the "milking the clock" scenario - you could become too predictable and not get enough rushing yardage to make the field goal "more makeable". You could miss the field goal or having something go wrong with the snap/spot operation, etc. I don't mind a coach staying aggressive, trusting his defense to carry the day and going for a kill shot.
I was disappointed that Ron Rivera didn't go for 2. Despite what was said here, that's DEFINITELY in his character - he's known as "Riverboat Ron" for a reason but for some reason yesterday stayed conservative.
Great point. We saw the milking the clock fail in Coughlin's final season with a comical series of mishaps leading to a loss.
I can't help sensing jealousy of Siriani and the Eagles in this thread. We would love to be as hated.
Quote from: zephirus on October 02, 2023, 11:22:16 AMMaybe I'm in the minority, not in hating Siriani or the Eagles but I didn't second-guess the move. There are so many things that can go wrong with the "milking the clock" scenario - you could become too predictable and not get enough rushing yardage to make the field goal "more makeable". You could miss the field goal or having something go wrong with the snap/spot operation, etc. I don't mind a coach staying aggressive, trusting his defense to carry the day and going for a kill shot.
I was disappointed that Ron Rivera didn't go for 2. Despite what was said here, that's DEFINITELY in his character - he's known as "Riverboat Ron" for a reason but for some reason yesterday stayed conservative.
The real problem was the taunting penalty. Had Brown not done that, it would've been difficult to drive the field in the remaining time. As it was, the Commanders made it b/c of a 'three-second' incomplete pass play.
The call sucked only if Siriani anticipated the taunting call, which was the right call.
Quote from: TDToomer on October 02, 2023, 12:02:27 PMGreat point. We saw the milking the clock fail in Coughlin's final season with a comical series of mishaps leading to a loss.
I can't help sensing jealousy of Siriani and the Eagles in this thread. We would love to be as hated.
TD: I forgot to mention to Lee (zephirus) that the inherent weakness in his argument is that all of the very same "worries" he correctly mentioned as applicable to running out the clock (playing the odds) apply EVEN MORE SO to what they actually did.
The WR could have stumbled, tipped the ball up on the air, the pass could have been off-target, intercepted, etc., The QB could have been sacked, fumbled the ball, etc. The OL could have committed a penalty taking them out of field goal range, etc.
In short, Siriani's move ADDED TO AND AMPLIFIED the inherent "risks" of running ANY football play. IMO the move was indefensible.... notwithstanding Lee's strong effort to make a case to the contrary.
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2023, 12:18:48 PMTD: I forgot to mention to Lee (zephirus) that the inherent weakness in his argument is that all of the very same "worries" he correctly mentioned as applicable to running out the clock (playing the odds) apply EVEN MORE SO to what they actually did.
The WR could have stumbled, tipped the ball up on the air, the pass could have been off-target, intercepted, etc., The QB could have been sacked, fumbled the ball, etc. The OL could have committed a penalty taking them out of field goal range, etc.
In short, Siriani's move ADDED TO AND AMPLIFIED the inherent "risks" of running ANY football play. IMO the move was indefensible.... notwithstanding Lee's strong effort to make a case to the contrary.
Bob
While that's all true - here's the thing. The defense in this scenario is 100% expecting a run-run-run offensive mentality. They're going to stack the line. The linebackers are going to cheat up. Corners are gonna press. They're going to try to stand up the ball-carrier and look to force a fumble. I think the element of surprise here is what made this play effective and inherently reduced the risk of going long. The double-move was effective because the corner was cheating. Additionally, assuming it goes right, you're forcing the other team into a touchdown or die scenario instead of potentially a long FG to re-tie the game.
Looking at the play-by-play the Eagles were facing a 2nd and 4 with 1:49 left, and the Commanders had only one time out left. Let's say the Eagles run 2 more time into a stacked defense and come up with a 4th and 2, forcing the Commanders to use their last time out and kick a FG to go up 3 with ~1 minute left. Would you rather be up by 7 leaving the Commanders 1:36 and one timeout or up by 3 leaving the Commanders with a minute and no timeouts? Probably splitting hairs here but again, I didn't think it was bone-headed to go for the kill in that scenario.
Quote from: zephirus on October 02, 2023, 01:54:43 PMWhile that's all true - here's the thing. The defense in this scenario is 100% expecting a run-run-run offensive mentality. They're going to stack the line. The linebackers are going to cheat up. Corners are gonna press. They're going to try to stand up the ball-carrier and look to force a fumble. I think the element of surprise here is what made this play effective and inherently reduced the risk of going long. The double-move was effective because the corner was cheating. Additionally, assuming it goes right, you're forcing the other team into a touchdown or die scenario instead of potentially a long FG to re-tie the game.
Looking at the play-by-play the Eagles were facing a 2nd and 4 with 1:49 left, and the Commanders had only one time out left. Let's say the Eagles run 2 more time into a stacked defense and come up with a 4th and 2, forcing the Commanders to use their last time out and kick a FG to go up 3 with ~1 minute left. Would you rather be up by 7 leaving the Commanders 1:36 and one timeout or up by 3 leaving the Commanders with a minute and no timeouts? Probably splitting hairs here but again, I didn't think it was bone-headed to go for the kill in that scenario.
Lee: I wouldn't have expected anything less than to have you bolster your already-solid argument. My only remark aside from "well done" is that, aside from probably establishing the move wasn't completely bone-headed, it was still IMO the wrong move. It will be interesting to watch as his career continues to see if there are any more such moves (if not bone-headed, then let's call them "chutzpah-heavy") that do blow up in his face. Remember, the fans at the stadium WILL soon have snowballs (whether or not it has actually snowed LOL). Nice job. Bob
Should AJ Brown just taken a knee at the 1 and then let the clock run down to either score a TD or FG?
Quote from: TDToomer on October 02, 2023, 03:04:46 PMShould AJ Brown just taken a knee at the 1 and then let the clock run down to either score a TD or FG?
TD: What do you think? IMO that's a lot to ask of a guy running at top speed. Also, I think he gets paid by the TD so that would have cost him a bag of chips. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2023, 04:15:42 PMTD: What do you think? IMO that's a lot to ask of a guy running at top speed. Also, I think he gets paid by the TD so that would have cost him a bag of chips. Bob
Didn't Mahomes do exactly that last night? He ran and could have scored (and scored for many fantasy teams) but gave himself up at the 2 yard line. So no it's not a lot to ask. If Brown was ordered to not score/give them the ball back, and he defied his coaches because of incentive clauses well then he is a selfish XXXXX. But back to my original point, players do this all the time. A defensive back makes a game sealing pick and could go all the way but instead go out of bounds to not risk a turnover. Team first.
Quote from: TDToomer on October 02, 2023, 07:43:03 PMDidn't Mahomes do exactly that last night? He ran and could have scored (and scored for many fantasy teams) but gave himself up at the 2 yard line. So no it's not a lot to ask. If Brown was ordered to not score/give them the ball back, and he defied his coaches because of incentive clauses well then he is a selfish XXXXX. But back to my original point, players do this all the time. A defensive back makes a game sealing pick and could go all the way but instead go out of bounds to not risk a turnover. Team first.
TD: Yes. In fact, I noted it somewhere above in this thread. Bob