He wasn't good enough to be an OL on the Giants but he is good enough to be the starting guard on a team going to The Super Bowl. " Something is rotten in the State Of Denmark " !!!
Obviously, our former OL coach and his buddy, Head Coach "we need a spark" have much more than a tad bit of trouble in evaluating talent.
Among other deficiencies.
Don't forget Kevin Zeitler who made it to the AFC Championship game.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 28, 2024, 10:51:41 PMDon't forget Kevin Zeitler who made it to the AFC Championship game.
I wasa going to add Zeitler but I thought it was a money issue and cap space . Am I wrong ?
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 29, 2024, 02:25:57 AMI wasa going to add Zeitler but I thought it was a money issue and cap space . Am I wrong ?
You're not. They wanted to sign Rudolph and cut KZ to make way (I think).
Insert Feliciano at LG and Zeitler at RG and JMS at center. With Phillips at RT, they might have had something there. Mix in Hernandez and maybe don't draft a Center. Makes me wonder if Neal, Bredeson, Ezeudu, and Golinski are worth salvaging with this new Oline Coach.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 29, 2024, 06:28:34 AMInsert Feliciano at LG and Zeitler at RG and JMS at center. With Phillips at RT, they might have had something there. Mix in Hernandez and maybe don't draft a Center. Makes me wonder if Neal, Bredeson, Ezeudu, and Golinski are worth salvaging with this new Oline Coach.
I think it's worth trying that for next season. Too many resources have been pumped into the Line just to give up and start over. Plus there are so many holes elsewhere.
They've gotta figure something out with the current batch of players. Thomas, JMS, and Neal need to be productive starters.
If Neal doesn't work at RT, push him inside and let him play in the proverbial phone booth. DJ Fluker, Robert Gallery, Ereck Flowers, and many other failed OTs have made a career of it at guard.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 28, 2024, 10:15:48 PMHe wasn't good enough to be an OL on the Giants but he is good enough to be the starting guard on a team going to The Super Bowl. " Something is rotten in the State Of Denmark " !!!
Feliciano finally got out from under Bobby Johnson's coaching. Notice a difference?
(https://i.imgur.com/g2AyFgB.png)
He did give up one ugly sack.
Quote from: Hadron on January 29, 2024, 08:46:57 AMThey've gotta figure something out with the current batch of players. Thomas, JMS, and Neal need to be productive starters.
If Neal doesn't work at RT, push him inside and let him play in the proverbial phone booth. DJ Fluker, Robert Gallery, Ereck Flowers, and many other failed OTs have made a career of it at guard.
Right now, Schoen has invested a ton of draft capital in the offensive line (while inheriting an elite but injury-prone LT) with nothing to show for it. Hopefully, the new offensive line coach can turn this mess around. Otherwise, Schoen isn't looking much better than Gettleman in terms of fixing the Giant's biggest and most vexing problem lasting around 15 years already.
Our issue is the coaches. It's obvious these players did well in different situations. Yet our line allows RB to consistently be hit in the backfield. I believe our line is clueless to stunts and adjustments and that is coaching.
Quote from: Trench on January 29, 2024, 10:10:20 AMOur issue is the coaches. It's obvious these players did well in different situations. Yet our line allows RB to consistently be hit in the backfield. I believe our line is clueless to stunts and adjustments and that is coaching.
I 100% agree with you. I have said this in the past that OL coach and OC have a disconnect and they are not able to get on the same page. The level of execution has been terrible for many years now. I am almost sure once Neal is let go from the Giants he will become a high level player. Execution begins with coaching.
I hated losing Feliciano. I thought he was that player with an edge that helped other OL find their inner nastiness. All year the Giants OL lacked that grit and toughness to impose their will on opposing defenses.
Quote from: Giantleap56 on January 29, 2024, 11:09:04 AMI hated losing Feliciano. I thought he was that player with an edge that helped other OL find their inner nastiness. All year the Giants OL lacked that grit and toughness to impose their will on opposing defenses.
Kinda like Chriss Snee
How much does the QB making adjustments at line influence the OL performance? It probably depends on how the defense lines up and they line up depending on the offense talent plus risk/reward variations.
There are probably a lot of factors going into the line play, I wonder what they are and what the plan is to address each independent challenge comprehensively.
Quote from: UncannyGfan on January 29, 2024, 11:50:02 AMHow much does the QB making adjustments at line influence the OL performance? It probably depends on how the defense lines up and they line up depending on the offense talent plus risk/reward variations.
There are probably a lot of factors going into the line play, I wonder what they are and what the plan is to address each independent challenge comprehensively.
One thing I wonder about with Jones given that the line seemed to play a little better with Taylor in the lineup, how is his snap count in terms of voice inflection?
Seems a minor point, but we definitely see some QBs that are great at getting teams to jump or at least flinch and reset and keep them guessing when the ball is snapped.
The snap count is the OLs biggest advantage on a given play (or so says Mark Schlereth) and if that is taken away, that might explain some of the jailbreaks into the backfield.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 29, 2024, 12:06:49 PMOne thing I wonder about with Jones given that the line seemed to play a little better with Taylor in the lineup, how is his snap count in terms of voice inflection?
Seems a minor point, but we definitely see some QBs that are great at getting teams to jump or at least flinch and reset and keep them guessing when the ball is snapped.
The snap count is the OLs biggest advantage on a given play (or so says Mark Schlereth) and if that is taken away, that might explain some of the jailbreaks into the backfield.
Excellent point. This is a flaw in Jones ability as a QB. Eli was the best I ever saw at making the defense jump
The lengths people will go to to blame Jones for everything. The OL stunk for Eli's last 5 years.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 29, 2024, 12:52:49 PMThe lengths people will go to to blame Jones for everything. The OL stunk for Eli's last 5 years.
Nobody is blaming jones here
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 29, 2024, 12:52:49 PMThe lengths people will go to to blame Jones for everything.
More like the lengths people will go to excuse and divert blame elsewhere for him and for all of his futility over the years.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on January 29, 2024, 12:52:49 PMThe lengths people will go to to blame Jones for everything. The OL stunk for Eli's last 5 years.
Did any of the OL that stunk during the end of Eli's career do better on other teams?
There are 3 recent examples of guys doing better after leaving the Giants.
My question about Jones voice inflection was just that, a question. Because I really don't know if Jones is good at that part if the game or not. I wasnt making a statement, I was saying I don't know.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 29, 2024, 01:02:02 PMDid any of the OL that stunk during the end of Eli's career do better on other teams?
Flowers, Hart and Pugh.
Quote from: TDToomer on January 29, 2024, 01:46:15 PMFlowers, Hart and Pugh.
Pugh wasn't bad as a Giant, just couldn't stay on the field. Flowers we know was better with a position switch. Not sure Bobby Hart was much better in Cincy, but they were able to work around him.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 29, 2024, 01:49:52 PMPugh wasn't bad as a Giant, just couldn't stay on the field. Flowers we know was better with a position switch. Not sure Bobby Hart was much better in Cincy, but they were able to work around him.
Oh I agree with Pugh. I liked him a lot. He was unfairly labeled injury prone, signed with AZ for less AAV than his final Giants season, and proceeded to be healthy again. As for Hart he also managed to get healthy starting 32 straight games for the Bengals and then 13/16 the following season so that says something. You leave a team that is a disaster are coached properly and carve out a productive 2nd half of your career. Even Richberg started 28/32 games after leaving the Giants before injuries ended his career.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on January 29, 2024, 01:49:52 PMPugh wasn't bad as a Giant, just couldn't stay on the field. Flowers we know was better with a position switch. Not sure Bobby Hart was much better in Cincy, but they were able to work around him.
If you go by PFF grades:
Pugh was fairly consistent across his career until the last couple years.
Weston Richburg had lower grades with the 49ers.
Bobby Hart had consistently bad grades with the exception of one decent year his third year with the Bengals.
Ereck Flowers appeared to play better at Guard but his grades didn't improve at all until his final year in the league.