I am so glad the Giants are not in a position to have to decide on drafting Caleb Williams. So much talent and yet so many red flags
https://x.com/MadelynBurke/status/1763566708692840538?s=20
https://x.com/ggabefootball/status/1763395945415225401?s=20
Sorry but many here keep defending Caleb Williams as being mature. He is a QB, the most heavily invested position in the NFL. Teams have to take him apart to ensure he is fine medically and every other way. This is another red flag to me. As I have said before, my USC booster friends say to stay away from him. He has gotten very entitled they have said.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 01, 2024, 09:39:31 AMSorry but many here keep defending Caleb Williams as being mature. He is a QB, the most heavily invested position in the NFL. Teams have to take him apart to ensure he is fine medically and every other way. This is another red flag to me. As I have said before, my USC booster friends say to stay away from him. He has gotten very entitled they have said.
I had a conversation once with a person who was going to the same college as Ryan Leaf. He said that Leaf had a reputation on campus for being a real A-hole. I think there is value in the opinions of those who get to know a prospect in a way the prospect can't control.
He is purposely trying to get to the Commanders. Smart!
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 09:51:26 AMI had a conversation once with a person who was going to the same college as Ryan Leaf. He said that Leaf had a reputation on campus for being a real A-hole. I think there is value in the opinions of those who get to know a prospect in a way the prospect can't control.
Yeah, the so-called internet experts don't see these things as red flags but whispers have a way of being very relevant. With respect to Ryan Leaf, I remember hearing that he was not even in his high school football hall of fame because he was such an A-hole. Amazes me that teams don't find that in their due diligence or they ignore it.
How many of us now would have liked to see how Evan Neal tests in the so-called agility drills that he so happily refused to participate? Had they had this info maybe they would have passed and taken someone like Garrett Wilson or Kyle Hamilton.
Quote from: sooners56 on March 01, 2024, 09:57:35 AMHe is purposely trying to get to the Commanders. Smart!
Yup. Last laugh.
Yes, I'm really hoping he's off the board by the time the Giants select, or that the Giants simply remove him from their board. While I don't think it will happen, I'd actually love to see him slide like Rodgers back in 2005. Humility is a good quality to have, and clearly one he needs to work on.
I'm wondering if Chicago made a verbal commitment to him. He's making decisions that may drop him along with the other Red Flag. Hey, it's his career. He must know what he's doing. He's certainly not getting advise from an Agent.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 01, 2024, 10:30:46 AMI'm wondering if Chicago made a verbal commitment to him. He's making decisions that may drop him along with the other Red Flag. Hey, it's his career. He must know what he's doing. He's certainly not getting advise from an Agent.
IF the Bears draft him and things don't work out, his failure to participate could come back to haunt him. Teams use the draft process not just to decide who to draft but they use the data they gather for deciding on which veteran to acquire later on down the road. Williams is banking on being both the number one pick and things going great for him in Chicago.
https://x.com/RossTuckerPod/status/1763549752644243616?s=20
Here is a partial transcipt of Caleb's interview
On if he's afraid to compete at the NFL Combine: "No. Not doing things. It was the decision by me and my team, my family and it comes down to that."
On what he sees in the Bears: "They've got a good defense. They've got good players on offense. It's pretty exciting to be going to a situation like that.
On the fact that the Bears haven't had good quarterback play in 100+ years: "I don't compare myself to the other guys that's there, been there. I think I'm my own player. I tend to create history and rewrite history."
On last season: "This is one of the seasons unlike any of the other seasons I've had to where I've been so close to being either neutral or close to having a losing record and so it was tough for me. Like I said, I'm a competitor, I like to win and so being that close to losing was difficult for me but I had people in my corner to help me and figure out the energy and feeling that I was feeling. I think it's important going into situations because there's nobody in the first part of the draft that would be early in the draft — and I expect myself to go high — to be, 12-and-whatever. The teams are going to be, at least from the year before, it's kind of how I went into USC where they were 4-8. So just prepare for those moments and I think last year was a perfect example for that."
"I learned either you grow from something like that — and Lincoln (Riley) sat me down after maybe our loss to Utah I believe, and he sat me down and he said, 'Either you grow from something like this or you keep feeling this feeling, you'll stay where you are.'"
On not throwing at Combine: "I didn't feel the need to go out and throw. I played around 30 something games I believe. Go ahead and go watch real live ball with me and see how I am as a competitor."
On getting into football: "My Dad put me in football when I was four. My Mom didn't let me play tackle football my first year. I thought I was going to love it. At four years old, I did. And the next year after that I was a bit too aggressive for flag football. So from there, I fell in love with it even more. By the time I hit 11 to 12, I told my Dad that this is what I wanted to do and we could put together a plan and he has helped me every part of the way."
On being an "artist" or a "surgeon" as a quarterback: "I've actually heard that about the artist or surgeon thing and I like to think that when it's time to be surgical, it's time to be surgical. There's been many games where it gets late in the game and I've ran or scrambled and threw a crazy pass — that's being the artist. And then there's been times where — even when I hurt my hamstring and I couldn't run — I sat in the pocket the whole time, the rest of the game, and delivered the ball. ... It's important to be in the pocket. It's part of the game. It's also important to be out of the pocket and just be just as good as you are in the pocket and out of pocket."
On how disappointed he'd be if he was not drafted No. 1 overall: "It's not a thought in my mind. I don't think that I'm not going to be No. 1. I think I put in all the hard work, all of the time, effort, energy into being that. So, I don't think of a Plan B. That's kind how I do things in my life. I don't think of a Plan B. I stay on Plan A and then when things don't work out, find a way to make Plan A work."
On what he wants to show teams this week in interviews: "The main thing that if they ask me or if it comes up, the main thing I've said is I want to go to a place that wants to win. A whole 360 from the top down to the janitors to the people who make everything run. Everybody wants to win, everybody's a part of that, and we all take care of each other."
On doing an ESPN interview before the Combine: "A lot of things are coming out right now. You all rarely see me speak. Ever. As you all know, I don't really speak much. But this was important to me that I wanted to put something out before I came here. Especially with all the noise and things like that that's been brewing and things like that before I came here. And then now since I've been here, a bunch of stuff comes out but just wanted to put something out so everybody knew exactly where it was coming from."
On the backlash to showing emotion after a loss at USC: "There's not many people in the world that get the experience what I experience every gameday, every practice day. So it always goes back to that for me. It's something that I only get to experience. It's something that I really care about, which is not only winning the game but doing it with my teammates. So every time we lose, I feel like I let my teammates down."
On having a Michael Jordan-like impact in Chicago: "I'd say anywhere I go, that's my standard. That's what I play for as you all saw. I don't play for fame. I don't play for money. I don't play for jewels and things like that. To go out there and win as many games as possible, be the best that I can. My plan is if I can be my best and play as many games as possible — at my best — I think I can reach certain points like that."
On NFL leap: "I would say there's small things that you may need to correct or adapt to going into an NFL locker room where I'm 22 and people have kids and they're ranging on 35 and things like that. I would say adapting to the situation. Understanding what the team needs from me and going about it that way. ... The cool thing about my experience is that all three years have been a bit different. This past year we went 7-5 so my leadership needed to be different. The year before, I came into a situation where we were 4-8, so my leadership needed to be different. The year before, I came in as a backup and then I jumped up and became the starter. So my leadership throughout times have been different and I think it is helped groom me for the situation I'm going into now."
On what he wants to find out about the Bears as he meets with them more: "Do you want to win? That's it."
He will be the number one pick. It doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do. He's got all the leverage now and smartly using it to his advantage.
Quote from: katkavage on March 01, 2024, 10:44:44 AMHe will be the number one pick. It doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do. He's got all the leverage now and smartly using it to his advantage.
What is the advantage of refusing the physicals?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 10:45:23 AMWhat is the advantage of refusing the physicals?
None. But he knows it doesn't matter. He can refuse and he's still going number one. Of course he won't get a nickel until he does take a physical by the team that drafts him. Unless his lawyers write that out of his contract and the team allows it.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 10:45:23 AMWhat is the advantage of refusing the physicals?
I thought he said:
QuoteThe teams that I go to for my interview, those teams will have my medical,
Quote from: T200 on March 01, 2024, 11:16:15 AMI thought he said:
People do this every draft. Hope to diminish a prospect. It would be great if it worked and he fell to the Giants. It won't. He's going number one.
Quote from: T200 on March 01, 2024, 11:16:15 AMI thought he said:
What does that even mean? NFL team doctors conduct the physicals (and there are scans involved) at the Combine. How does a team that interviews him exactly "have his physical"?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 11:26:24 AMWhat does that even mean? NFL team doctors conduct the physicals (and there are scans involved) at the Combine. How does a team that interviews him exactly "have his physical"?
I am not familiar with the process. This is just my interpretation of what he said:
He's going to do the medical evaluations but they are not available to every team. He and his team will provide the results to only those teams he interviews with.
Or... he will only do the evaluations for the teams that he meets with.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 10:45:23 AMWhat is the advantage of refusing the physicals?
Is that any different than coming out and telling the Chargers that you will never play for them under any circumstances?
Kid is from DC. He probably wants to play close to home and is trying to annoy the Bears into making that happen. The reality is that dropping from 1 to 2 overall is going to cost him a not insignificant amount of money. Criticize him all you want. He's willing to put his money where his mouth is, quite literally.
I'd also point out that players medical profiles are leaked every damn year forcing the player in question to answer to the media about it. Why do the Kansas Chiefs need to see his physical, and would you be fine with having your own personal medical records given to dozens of teams when in reality there are only going to be two or three teams with a realistic chance of drafting him? No one else needs to know and if they want to trade up they can ask him to take a physical.
Quote from: madbadger on March 01, 2024, 12:32:32 PMIs that any different than coming out and telling the Chargers that you will never play for them under any circumstances?
Kid is from DC. He probably wants to play close to home and is trying to annoy the Bears into making that happen. The reality is that dropping from 1 to 2 overall is going to cost him a not insignificant amount of money. Criticize him all you want. He's willing to put his money where his mouth is, quite literally.
I'd also point out that players medical profiles are leaked every damn year forcing the player in question to answer to the media about it. Why do the Kansas Chiefs need to see his physical, and would you be fine with having your own personal medical records given to dozens of teams when in reality there are only going to be two or three teams with a realistic chance of drafting him? No one else needs to know and if they want to trade up they can ask him to take a physical.
and
@T200 I have hired a lot of people in my lifetime. I have learned (through hard-earned experience) not to ignore the red flags. It may seem harsh and unreasonable to ding people for things, but more often than not, if you ignore the red flag, you will regret it.
https://x.com/ProFootballDoc/status/1763616785092210978?s=20
He does seem to be a control...freak may be too strong a word, so let's just say, a controller. As under the circumstances, what he chooses to do- while somewhat "rich" for a USC QB- and perhaps enmity stirring, are of no interest or concern to this Giants fan.
Cheers!
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 12:36:15 PMand @T200
I have hired a lot of people in my lifetime. I have learned (through hard-earned experience) not to ignore the red flags. It may seem harsh and unreasonable to ding people for things, but more often than not, if you ignore the red flag, you will regret it.
https://x.com/ProFootballDoc/status/1763616785092210978?s=20
I was just commenting about how I received/interpreted his comments about the physicals. No judgment.
QuoteThe teams that I go to for my interview, those teams will have my medical...
That's not him refusing medicals. That's him saying he's only going to open himself to such things with teams that are realistically able to draft him. Words are important.
Why are people getting bent out of shape about him not participating in the Underwear Olympics?
He is the first person to refuse the medicals at the combine. It's a bit odd to say the least.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 01, 2024, 09:39:31 AMSorry but many here keep defending Caleb Williams as being mature. He is a QB, the most heavily invested position in the NFL. Teams have to take him apart to ensure he is fine medically and every other way. This is another red flag to me. As I have said before, my USC booster friends say to stay away from him. He has gotten very entitled they have said.
Ha! College boosters saying someone feels entitled? Talk about an Oxymoron 😂
Has anyone heard of any teammate, coach, friend or family member say anything negative about Williams?
Quote from: sooners56 on March 01, 2024, 01:52:05 PMHa! College boosters saying someone feels entitled? Talk about an Oxymoron 😂
Has anyone heard of any teammate, coach, friend or family member say anything negative about Williams?
So your point is what, all affluent people feel entitled?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 12:36:15 PMand @T200
I have hired a lot of people in my lifetime. I have learned (through hard-earned experience) not to ignore the red flags. It may seem harsh and unreasonable to ding people for things, but more often than not, if you ignore the red flag, you will regret it.
https://x.com/ProFootballDoc/status/1763616785092210978?s=20
I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I don't see this as a red flag or his decision to bypass hiring an agent as well. He's doing things differently because he has leverage. I guess people are big on conformity....
Quote from: madbadger on March 01, 2024, 02:54:20 PMI guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I don't see this as a red flag or his decision to bypass hiring an agent as well. He's doing things differently because he has leverage. I guess people are big on conformity....
Team sports, by their very nature, requires a degree of conformity by the participants
Quote from: madbadger on March 01, 2024, 02:54:20 PMI guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I don't see this as a red flag or his decision to bypass hiring an agent as well. He's doing things differently because he has leverage. I guess people are big on conformity....
We can only hope these "red flags" drop Williams into the Giants lap. Of course that won't happen. All this hand wringing isn't going to change a thing. He's going number 1.
Quote from: katkavage on March 01, 2024, 03:20:17 PMWe can only hope these "red flags" drop Williams into the Giants lap. Of course that won't happen. All this hand wringing isn't going to change a thing. He's going number 1.
(https://media.gq.com/photos/64f0d1ea1a8cdfb2bcd92540/master/w_1600,c_limit/GQ1023_Williams_D_07.jpg)
In the Pac-12 Championship Game against Utah, which ultimately ended in a USC loss, Williams had again painted "F--- Utah" on his nails.(https://a4.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2022%2F1208%2Fr1103750_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg&w=570&format=jpg)
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Williams-02.jpg?resize=1024,706&quality=75&strip=all)
Caleb Williams cries in mom's arms after lossNow he refuses to participate in the Combine Medical (an NFL first)
One thing you learn in management is that patterns of minor offense can be just as damning as a more significant offense. Taken in isolation none of these issues are really significant. Taken as a whole, you really start to wonder about this young man.
Football is a team sport. Team sports are about sacrificing the individual for the team goals (the old "there is no "I" in team"
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 02:55:33 PMTeam sports, by their very nature, requires a degree of conformity by the participants
On the field and in the facility for sure but in this case none of the "red flags" have anything to do with football directly. Dahani Jones was a free spirit who did things his own way away from the facility and no one had issues with him because he showed uo in shape and played hard.
Quote from: madbadger on March 01, 2024, 04:25:35 PMOn the field and in the facility for sure but in this case none of the "red flags" have anything to do with football directly. Dahani Jones was a free spirit who did things his own way away from the facility and no one had issues with him because he showed uo in shape and played hard.
Dhani Jones' free spirit was linited to things like playibg saxophone, classical piano and writing poetry and wearing bow ties. That does not sound like Caleb Williams.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 03:41:24 PM(https://media.gq.com/photos/64f0d1ea1a8cdfb2bcd92540/master/w_1600,c_limit/GQ1023_Williams_D_07.jpg)
In the Pac-12 Championship Game against Utah, which ultimately ended in a USC loss, Williams had again painted "F--- Utah" on his nails.
(https://a4.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2022%2F1208%2Fr1103750_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg&w=570&format=jpg)
(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/11/Williams-02.jpg?resize=1024,706&quality=75&strip=all)
Caleb Williams cries in mom's arms after loss
Now he refuses to participate in the Combine Medical (an NFL first)
One thing you learn in management is that patterns of minor offense can be just as damning as a more significant offense. Taken in isolation none of these issues are really significant. Taken as a whole, you really start to wonder about this young man.
Football is a team sport. Team sports are about sacrificing the individual for the team goals (the old "there is no "I" in team"
Ha. It would be hilarious if the Giants happened to land Williams. Just to see the reaction from the sometimes very stodgy fan base would be worth it just for that. I remember the Giants fans making fun of fur coated Joe Namath while the Giants had superstar Gary Wood as their QB. Oh the dark days.
Quote from: katkavage on March 01, 2024, 05:18:14 PMHa. It would be hilarious if the Giants happened to land Williams. Just to see the reaction from the sometimes very stodgy fan base would be worth it just for that. I remember the Giants fans making fun of fur coated Joe Namath while the Giants had superstar Gary Wood as their QB. Oh the dark days.
So you are okay with a QB who gives me the other team bulletin board material by painting FU on his nails and then cries on his mommy's shoulder when the team beat him?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 01, 2024, 05:21:11 PMSo you are okay with a QB who gives me the other team bulletin board material by painting FU on his nails and then cries on his mommy's shoulder when the team beat him?
If he backs up his talk with his play,yeah. If he talks the talk but can't walk the walk, no. That's on him. Back to Namath. He boasted he would beat the Colts despite being a heavy underdog. Talk about bulletin board material. But he did it. Of the kid has the confidence to get it done, that's all good. And stop with the crying to Mama junk. We all have to be so macho or we are diminished. He's a kid!
No agent. No Combine medical tests. If he is doing this because Chicago has made a verbal commitment to him, then he's also naive. NFL team verbals mean nothing.
No thanks.
Funny how there is a whole thread here continuously bashing a player we have virtually a zero percent chance of getting.
All of these things may end up being a nothing burger, but if I were about to make him the face of my franchise I would definitely take notice.
It's a bit different to have a QB who is non-conforming or a diva or whatever you want to call it, than any other player on the team.
There has been more than one physically gifted QB whose personality was off-putting and ultimately limited success.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 06:13:32 PMFunny how there is a whole thread here continuously bashing a player we have virtually a zero percent chance of getting.
Why is that funny? I think consensus top picks are picked apart on this forum annually.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 01, 2024, 06:09:59 PMNo agent. No Combine medical tests. If he is doing this because Chicago has made a verbal commitment to him, then he's also naive. NFL team verbals mean nothing.
No thanks.
Don't think if given the opportunity Schoen will say no thanks.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 01, 2024, 06:32:14 PMWhy is that funny? I think consensus tip picks are picked apart on this forum annually.
My memory must be bad. I don't really recall anything like this in recent past years.
https://x.com/firstroundmock/status/1763418630555873401?s=61&t=meiiQwOnGSoMsm66TJh5kQ
Some harsh words for Williams
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 01, 2024, 06:13:32 PMFunny how there is a whole thread here continuously bashing a player we have virtually a zero percent chance of getting.
We're questioning his decisions and maturity. I'd save the word bashing to the threads about DJ.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 01, 2024, 05:15:26 PMDhani Jones' free spirit was linited to things like playibg saxophone, classical piano and writing poetry and wearing bow ties. That does not sound like Caleb Williams.
Once the season ended he ghosted his teammates and was only at the facility when he was obligated to. In addition to the things you mentioned he would spend his offseason traveling the world. My point is that no one cares what you do in your free time as long as you show up, in shape and ball out.
Pat Kirwan just crushed Caleb Williams...
bw in dc : 3:40 pm
I'm a big fan of Pat on NFL Radio and he's not a guy who says things for shock value.
But CW's actions at the Combine really troubled him. I'm paraphrasing, but here is the gist:
- The comments about Chicago sound rehearsed and phony. And other GMs felt similarly.
- Not doing the medical is a red flag and reflects on CW's decision making in general. Just not acting like a grown up.
- Comes off too much like he plays an individual sport, not a team sport.
- Concerned that the $10M in NIL money might not be the best thing because it could change his perspective about what's expected of him as an NFL QB.
- Thinks CW's actions here could create an opening for Daniels to get even closer to the #1 pick.
Just some more perspective to consider from a guy with 30+ years of NFL experience...
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=643728
Hearing all this, I guess Williams will be available maybe third round? :laugh:
Minimizing all these things is how you get players who never live up to their expectations.
Think about all the talented prospects who never lived up to their hype and then think about intangibles that swirled around them at this time of the year.
GMs survive if they pass up the next great thing. They don't survive if they select the Ryan Leafs.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 01, 2024, 09:25:58 PMMinimizing all these things is how you get players who never live up to their expectations.
Think about all the talented prospects who never lived up to their hype and then think about intangibles that swirled around them at this time of the year.
GMs survive if they pass up the next great thing. They don't survive if they select the Ryan Leafs.
Is it your position that Williams will be a Ryan Leaf type bust?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 02, 2024, 05:32:29 AMIs it your position that Williams will be a Ryan Leaf type bust?
Predicting failure is as challenging as predicting success. I will say that this whole thing has Dwayne Haskins vibes.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 06:41:31 AMPredicting failure is as challenging as predicting success. I will say that this whole thing has Dwayne Haskins vibes.
I definitely agree there are red flags with Williams. He is a gamble. So is any QB prospect though. Hell, Trevor Lawrence had Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck type hype around him, and he has been fairly underwhelming to this point. There were multiple people here who were very high on Bryce Young around this time last year too. You just never know with these QBs.
I will add one more thing. Pat Kirwan works for NFL radio. He's been interviewing GMs and HCs all week at the Combine. I have no doubt he also discusses stuff with them off the air. So when Pat Kirwan voices strong concerns about Caleb Williams (and even mentions GMs) I feel pretty confident that he was getting negative feedback about Williams from the top people he is talking to.
https://x.com/NotSoAngryScout/status/1763438192466739392?s=20
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 07:20:38 AMI will add one more thing. Pat Kirwan works for NFL radio. He's been interviewing GMs and HCs all week at the Combine. I have no doubt he also discusses stuff with them off the air. So when Pat Kirwan voices strong concerns about Caleb Williams (and even mentions GMs) I feel pretty confident that he was getting negative feedback about Williams from the top people he is talking to.
So you are surmising that his abhorrent behavior at the meat market will affect his draft status? Do you predict or think he will drop and won't go in the top three? Or number one?
Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2024, 09:08:36 AMSo you are surmising that his abhorrent behavior at the meat market will affect his draft status? Do you predict or think he will drop and won't go in the top three? Or number one?
I have heard successful NFL people talk about this mindset (which is actually seen in the NFL). Where a person is drafted doesn't prove anything. How the player actually plays AFTER they are drafted will.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 09:29:22 AMI have heard successful NFL people talk about this mindset (which is actually seen in the NFL). Where a person is drafted doesn't prove anything. How the player actually plays AFTER they are drafted will.
You didn't answer my question.
Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2024, 09:33:56 AMYou didn't answer my question.
What I just said shows that my position (and the position of smart people in the NFL) considers your question meaningless. So why would I answer? Were people who liked Ryan Leaf proven correct when he was drafted 2nd overall? Were Tom Brady's detractors proven correct when Tom lasted until the 6th round? Was Patric Mahomes not elite because he wasn't drafted in the top 5?
Again, what is the proven by where a player is drafted???
I'm asking that despite these so-called red flags will his stock drop. I'm not asking how he will do after he is drafted.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 09:39:41 AMWhat I just said shows that my position (and the position of smart people in the NFL) considers your question meaningless. So why would I answer? Were people who liked Ryan Leaf proven correct when he was drafted 2nd overall? Were Tom Brady's detractors proven correct when Tom lasted until the 6th round? Was Patric Mahomes not elite because he wasn't drafted in the top 5?
Again, what is the proven by where a player is drafted???
It doesn't. I agree fully but I'm not asking that.
Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2024, 09:41:52 AMIt doesn't. I agree fully but I'm not asking that.
Seeing how you said you hope the Giants draft him (at least that is the assumption I made when you said you hope he drops into the Giants' laps), how he plays is the relevant issue, not where he is drafted.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 09:45:19 AMSeeing how you said you hope the Giants draft him (at least that is the assumption I made when you said you hope he drops into the Giants' laps), how he plays is the relevant issue, not where he is drafted.
Again no answer to my question. Why post this thread? If all this chatter is meaningless to his draft status why should we care about any of this?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 09:45:19 AMSeeing how you said you hope the Giants draft him (at least that is the assumption I made when you said you hope he drops into the Giants' laps), how he plays is the relevant issue, not where he is drafted.
I'm not the Giants GM. If he falls to the Giants do you think Schoen drafts him or passes on him?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 02, 2024, 05:32:29 AMIs it your position that Williams will be a Ryan Leaf type bust?
I never said that and I never suggested it. I only used him as an example of a player who had clear bad intangible qualities which seemingly were ignored.
Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2024, 10:01:08 AMI'm not the Giants GM. If he falls to the Giants do you think Schoen drafts him or passes on him?
Yes, with the red flags, I would rather see Schoen make a trade or at worse pass on him. Those red flags raise serious concerns for me.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 02, 2024, 10:05:19 AMI never said that and I never suggested it. I only used him as an example of a player who had clear bad intangible qualities which seemingly were ignored.
Fair enough. I wasn't sure, hence why I asked.
I am curious though - what kind of career do you think Williams will have in the NFL?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 02, 2024, 10:08:19 AMFair enough. I wasn't sure, hence why I asked.
I am curious though - what kind of career do you think Williams will have in the NFL?
There are two recent QBs with similar issues. Lamar Jackson who has put up a ton of personal stats and earned lots of personal honors while struggling to bring success to his talented teams in the playoffs and Dwayne Haskins who crashed and burned before his untimely passing.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 02, 2024, 10:08:19 AMFair enough. I wasn't sure, hence why I asked.
I am curious though - what kind of career do you think Williams will have in the NFL?
I am triangulating a few different things and believe he will not live up to his drafted position.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 10:07:00 AMYes, with the red flags, I would rather see Schoen make a trade or at worse pass on him. Those red flags raise serious concerns for me.
Okay thanks.it won't matter anyway because, unless something criminal comes up, despite the red flags, Williams will be the first player picked. Do you doubt tha
Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2024, 10:44:29 AMOkay thanks.it won't matter anyway because, unless something criminal comes up, despite the red flags, Williams will be the first player picked. Do you doubt tha
Yes.
Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2024, 11:10:28 AMI got an answer. Thanks.
Sure thing. My other prediction is his NFL career does not produce at the expectations most here have.
Now you have me on the hook for two predictions.
It would not surprise me if Caleb's draft stock takes a tumble now that teams are getting to talk to him
https://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1763657170422575120?s=20
At least Caleb agreed to be measured
https://x.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1763970000979714432?s=20
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2024, 11:34:58 AMIt would not surprise me if Caleb's draft stock takes a tumble now that teams are getting to talk to him
https://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1763657170422575120?s=20
What would a tumble be? Like out of the top five?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 02, 2024, 12:47:21 PMWhat would a tumble be? Like out of the top five?
Hard to say, maybe go 1 to 3, maybe lower. It really depends on how bad the interviews go.
One thing I want to say is that although I said earlier that I think Caleb Williams will not live up to the expectations in the NFL that many are saying, it is not because he does not have the physical talent. Clearly (at least to me) he does have all the physical talent. What I am concerned about with him is that for so long he has been told he is the "chosen one". Unless he has the humility to let all those compliments bounce off him and continue to think he has to work every day at his craft and listen to everyone, players with those type of comments tend to get big heads. They start to think they have all the answers already.
One player who comes to mind who was like that was Chase Young. He was told at Ohio State that he's better than the Bosa brothers, that he's all world, can't miss, etc. I saw Young disappear in games and take plays off at the end of his last season which told me he did not have the heart of either Bosa brother, both of whom have had much better NFL careers.