On Justin Fields and build around him?
Assuming he's that guy, the Giants could trade down 2-4 spots in the 1st, garner several picks, and then spend their 2nd on Fields who would push/replace DJ next season.
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https://x.com/hedpsaiko/status/1766103661518659603?s=20
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 08, 2024, 08:54:28 AMOn Justin Fields and build around him?
Assuming he's that guy, the Giants could trade down 2-4 spots in the 1st, garner several picks, and then spend their 2nd on Fields who would push/replace DJ next season.
Andrew: It sounds like a smart idea, but I don't believe the Giants want him at any cost.
I say this because I'm personally not certain he would be a good fit to the current offense.
Unless they're playing their cards close to the vest, right now it doesn't look like Schoen has any interest.
Bob
Day 2 definitely no.
He hasn't shown any consistent improvement. I know some will point to the end of the 2023 season, but he improved the last 6 games of 2022 as well and then reverted back for the beginning of 2023.
I would. I think he's the kind of guy Daboll could work with. He'd have weapons to throw to in Hyatt, Robinson, Hodgins, and Slayton.
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 08, 2024, 09:21:24 AMAndrew: It sounds like a smart idea, but I don't believe the Giants want him at any cost.
I say this because I'm personally not certain he would be a good fit to the current offense.
Unless they're playing their cards close to the vest, right now it doesn't look like Schoen has any interest.
Bob
Thanks Bob. I agree not at any cost. But one of their 2 second round picks could make sense.
Using my idea above, if we traded down 2-4 spots in the 1st round, we'd still have a top 10 pick, plus maybe ANOTHER SECOND and a third from the trade down....we would have plenty of resources to build around him.
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I'd give up a third round pick if I wasn't drafting a QB this year. I haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on whether or not he can become that elite Franchise QB, although I'm inclined to say no because if the Bears are moving on to draft a Calib Williams, that's a red flag.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 08, 2024, 09:40:04 AMI'd give up a third round pick if I wasn't drafting a QB this year. I haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on whether or not he can become that elite Franchise QB, although I'm inclined to say no because if the Bears are moving on to draft a Calib Williams, that's a red flag.
Ed, I understand your POV.
I will simply counter with; while I'm not a scout I've seen a lot of him and I see a lot of talent with the proper support....definitely better and more durable than DJ.
Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Chicago's decisions, they've been worse than us for many years now.
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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 08, 2024, 09:43:32 AMEd, I understand your POV.
I will simply counter with; while I'm not a scout I've seen a lot of him and I see a lot of talent with the proper support....definitely better and more durable than DJ.
Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Chicago's decisions, they've been worse than us for many years now.
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Not by much, but the Bears have a better record than the Giants over the last decade.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 08, 2024, 10:03:17 AMNot by much, but the Bears have a better record than the Giants over the last decade.
Regular not post season though
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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 08, 2024, 10:04:22 AMRegular not post season though
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Playoffs? We're talking playoffs? For the two worst teams in the conference for the last decade?
No. We need a QB on a full rookie deal.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 08, 2024, 09:43:32 AMEd, I understand your POV.
I will simply counter with; while I'm not a scout I've seen a lot of him and I see a lot of talent with the proper support....definitely better and more durable than DJ.
Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Chicago's decisions, they've been worse than us for many years now.
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Well, I'm not against it. He certainly has physical talent and plenty of arm. I'll defer to you on the rest.
Quote from: files58 on March 08, 2024, 10:09:53 AMNo. We need a QB on a full rookie deal.
The Bears are in the hook for the rest of his 6mm contract.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 08, 2024, 10:23:07 AMThe Bears are in the hook for the rest of his 6mm contract.
That's correct, but if you traded for him say right before the draft are you exercising the 5th year option? Would have until 5/2 to decide.
Fields has no market as a starter or even in a place where he might be realistically be competing to be a starter if we trust the major media guys. Nobody is giving up more than a conditional future day 3 pick if they are correct.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 08, 2024, 10:31:15 AMThat's correct, but if you traded for him say right before the draft are you exercising the 5th year option? Would have until 5/2 to decide.
The would be 25 million for Fields based on his playing time. It's a risk for a QB they don't know intimately. A 60% completion % and 40 TDs to 30 Ints. His AYA is close to Jones. He has 14 Rushing TDs and 2200 rushing yards. He took less sacks than DJ in 13 games. In fact, his QBR and RTGs are close to DJ.
What would you do? I would pass and then sign him mid-season if he panned out.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 08, 2024, 11:42:22 AMThe would be 25 million for Fields based on his playing time. It's a risk for a QB they don't know intimately. A 60% completion % and 40 TDs to 30 Ints. His AYA is close to Jones. He has 14 Rushing TDs and 2200 rushing yards. He took less sacks than DJ in 13 games. In fact, his QBR and RTGs are close to DJ.
What would you do? I would pass and then sign him mid-season if he panned out.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 08, 2024, 11:42:22 AMThe would be 25 million for Fields based on his playing time. It's a risk for a QB they don't know intimately. A 60% completion % and 40 TDs to 30 Ints. His AYA is close to Jones. He has 14 Rushing TDs and 2200 rushing yards. He took less sacks than DJ in 13 games. In fact, his QBR and RTGs are close to DJ.
What would you do? I would pass and then sign him mid-season if he panned out.
Definitely would pass on the option. And would have to be blown away to want to give an extension.
New system with a potentially worse supporting cast, I just dont see huge improvements in his game in 1 year. With some improvement that basically puts the Giants right back to where they were when they gave DJ his contract.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 08, 2024, 12:21:56 PMDefinitely would pass on the option. And would have to be blown away to want to give an extension.
New system with a potentially worse supporting cast, I just dont see huge improvements in his game in 1 year. With some improvement that basically puts the Giants right back to where they were when they gave DJ his contract.
If you and
@andrew_nyGiants have the time, this is an excellent breakdown of Fields and the Hapless Bears. JTO doesn't just focus on what Fields did well and where he came up short, but the poor execution and coaching by the Offensive Unit where every play, one player was a cog. Basically, the same criticism we had of the Giants Offense and Jones in certain instances. Although, Fields has much better pocket awareness and only takes off when there is nothing else, but he misses opportunities downfield and in reading the box and adjusting protections. Of course, some of it is not his fault and you can't coach stupid.
It's the QB School week 11 analysis Bear and Lions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Nf-erIkrU&t=29s
Mac Jones just got traded to the Jaguars for a 6th round pick. Fields might bring back a bit more but it should not be much more.
I wouldn't throw the remote if the Giants did it, but I'm not particularly supportive either. Bottom line the Giants are in a rebuild. They're looking for their QB of the future, not a 1-2 year placeholder that is going to cost draft capital. This is a loaded draft this year (especially the first few rounds), so if anything I would prefer to add picks, not give them away.
I don't view Fields as a long term answer. He had three years in Chicago, and neither he nor the team got discernibly better during that period. I understand he wasn't in the greatest set of circumstances there, but it wouldn't be any better with us. I just don't see the point. Use the second rounder on a long term piece in any number of areas of need we have.
Quote from: londonblue on March 10, 2024, 11:16:20 AMMac Jones just got traded to the Jaguars for a 6th round pick. Fields might bring back a bit more but it should not be much more.
Do you see Fields as a backup QB?
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 10, 2024, 11:21:46 AMDo you see Fields as a backup QB?
A low level stop-gap starter/solid back-up. I personally don't think any team of the NFL sees him as a build around starter. The best case scenario for him is to get a chance to compete with an under-pressure starter or be a stop-gap starter but any team trading for him risk him being a rental as it would not make sense to pick up his fifth year option before May 2nd deadline as you'd have no new information.
Quote from: londonblue on March 10, 2024, 12:21:07 PMA low level stop-gap starter/solid back-up. I personally don't think any team of the NFL sees him as a build around starter. The best case scenario for him is to get a chance to compete with an under-pressure starter or be a stop-gap starter but any team trading for him risk him being a rental as it would not make sense to pick up his fifth year option before May 2nd deadline as you'd have no new information.
I agree, although I was more interested in your thoughts since you made the comment about his market value.
Ed, I think the Nick Foles/Gardner Minishew trades provide the ceiling and floor. Minishew beat out Foles to emerge as a starter in Jax. Foles was then traded to Chicago for a 4th mainly off his past Philly heroics. Minishew was so-so year two and got injured so Jax went for Trevor and Minishew was traded to Philly for a conditional 6th. Fields fits in this range for me though it seems Chicago are desperately hoping for better.
Quote from: londonblue on March 10, 2024, 12:54:01 PMEd, I think the Nick Foles/Gardner Minishew trades provide the ceiling and floor. Minishew beat out Foles to emerge as a starter in Jax. Foles was then traded to Chicago for a 4th mainly off his past Philly heroics. Minishew was so-so in year two and got injured so Jax went for Trevor and Minishew was traded to Philly for a conditional 6th. Fields fits in this range for me though it seems Chicago is desperately hoping for better.
I still think it behooves them to keep him as a backup and not tag him. He may even start the season. Although the economic reality is that if they can get a third round pick for him they will.