Giants met with Russell Wilson in an exploratory conversation. Not a fan of Wilson or the Gmen considering him.
They should consider all options
I vomited in my mouth.
:sick:
A couple of writers on the Musk Mess social site raise an interesting scenario:
Sign Wilson vet minimum or Minishew/similar cheap
Draft best QB available R1
Cut Jones with post 1 June designation making it salary cap neutral this year & next vs cutting at end of season
It means $48m dead cap this year and $23m next but provides a clean break consistent with Rich Eisen's take on our thinking and gives Jones a chance to find a gig as a back-up/spot starter somewhere once fit.
Thoughts?
Why cut Jones just to pay him? Also ,the way QBs get hurt
You never know.
Quote from: Hadron on March 08, 2024, 11:52:33 AMI vomited in my mouth.
:sick:
WTF? He's a hall of fame quarterback who, statistically, was in the upper third of all quarterbacks last year, despite having a dirtbag coach who tried to torpedo him constantly. lol
I don't think it makes a ton of sense to bring in a guy like Wilson who even with a down season would still be the best QB the Giants have had since Eli, because he's on the decline now and this is a team that should be looking to the future.
The good part of this to me is that the Giants are taking the idea that they need a new QB very seriously if they were going so far as to consider Wilson. Which they should. Because they don't currently have an even average QB on the roster.
Quote from: madbadger on March 08, 2024, 12:50:06 PMWTF? He's a hall of fame quarterback who, statistically, was in the upper third of all quarterbacks last year, despite having a dirtbag coach who tried to torpedo him constantly. lol
Is this real? My god do you have it all wrong about Russell Wilson.
Pete Carroll is the Hall of Famer, and Russell Wilson's career is a testament to Carroll's ability to take middling players and make them better. Russell Wilson is an average passer who used to have some juice in his legs. He throws an amazing deep ball. He's durable and doesn't miss time. He benefitted massively from a ground game featuring Marshawn Lynch and a defense that revolutionized against the modern passing games effectiveness. The results since the "Let Russ Cook" campaign took effect haven't shown anything that would lead you to believe Wilson is a player capable of carrying a team. He has passed for 4k yards only 4 times in a career spanning 12 years, a feat that many find rather pedestrian in today's game where passing yards come in massive chunks.
His abilites (and realities) as a player also don't highlight some of the "intangibles", which for Wilson aren't stellar. His teammmates do NOT like him, and many former teammates have stated that with remarkable clarity. They believe (and many) that he's a "me first" guy. That he's more interested in being a power couple with Ciara than being a quality football player. The front office openly stated they couldn't wait to trade him and get him to the airport by the time his course had run in Seattle. His lack of success in Denver only continues to highlight his deficiencies. Sean Payton appears to be a terrible human being who is a good coach. He couldn't make much out of Wilson and is moving on from him after a single year, despite the INSANE cap hit they're going to take. That's not a glowing vote of confidence from either of his last 2 organizations.
I couldn't greet the news that the Giants met with him, even in just an exploratory phase with more disgust. Please pass on this guy. We already have a middling passer in Daniel Jones. And for all his warts, he's a good teammate.
The Steelers are a much better fit and that is where he will probably wind up
You don't meet with Russell Wilson if you are happy with your QB situation. He's not signing somewhere to be a back, and the Giants know that.
Quote from: ralphpal1 on March 08, 2024, 11:57:02 AMWhy cut Jones just to pay him? Also ,the way QBs get hurt
You never know.
Getting hurt? Jones fits that bill without a hitch.
Quote from: FL GMAN on March 08, 2024, 11:38:48 AMGiants met with Russell Wilson in an exploratory conversation. Not a fan of Wilson or the Gmen considering him.
Nor am I. I'd prefer to think of it as "going through the motions" than a "considering of all options"
Cheers!
Quote from: zephirus on March 08, 2024, 01:05:52 PMIs this real? My god do you have it all wrong about Russell Wilson.
Pete Carroll is the Hall of Famer, and Russell Wilson's career is a testament to Carroll's ability to take middling players and make them better. Russell Wilson is an average passer who used to have some juice in his legs. He throws an amazing deep ball. He's durable and doesn't miss time. He benefitted massively from a ground game featuring Marshawn Lynch and a defense that revolutionized against the modern passing games effectiveness. The results since the "Let Russ Cook" campaign took effect haven't shown anything that would lead you to believe Wilson is a player capable of carrying a team. He has passed for 4k yards only 4 times in a career spanning 12 years, a feat that many find rather pedestrian in today's game where passing yards come in massive chunks.
His abilites (and realities) as a player also don't highlight some of the "intangibles", which for Wilson aren't stellar. His teammmates do NOT like him, and many former teammates have stated that with remarkable clarity. They believe (and many) that he's a "me first" guy. That he's more interested in being a power couple with Ciara than being a quality football player. The front office openly stated they couldn't wait to trade him and get him to the airport by the time his course had run in Seattle. His lack of success in Denver only continues to highlight his deficiencies. Sean Payton appears to be a terrible human being who is a good coach. He couldn't make much out of Wilson and is moving on from him after a single year, despite the INSANE cap hit they're going to take. That's not a glowing vote of confidence from either of his last 2 organizations.
I couldn't greet the news that the Giants met with him, even in just an exploratory phase with more disgust. Please pass on this guy. We already have a middling passer in Daniel Jones. And for all his warts, he's a good teammate.
Well if you said it than it must be 100% true. Coaches don't make players, they can only hamper them. I remember dolts trying to claim that Belichek was the real genius not Brady. How'd that work out in the end?
Quote from: madbadger on March 08, 2024, 02:27:14 PMWell if you said it than it must be 100% true. Coaches don't make players, they can only hamper them. I remember dolts trying to claim that Belichek was the real genius not Brady. How'd that work out in the end?
When Brady got hurt, BB made Matt Cassal look lime a HOFer with that new offense he ran designed around MC's strengths. Teams win SBs with all contributing.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 08, 2024, 02:35:23 PMWhen Brady got hurt, BB made Matt Cassal look lime a HOFer with that new offense he ran designed around MC's strengths. Teams win SBs with all contributing.
And when Brady left every quarterback thereafter looked like dog poo, while he won yet another Super Bowl. The fact of the matter is that Pete Carroll is a defensive coach and is not an offensive genius. Let's not forget that before he was the head coach of the Seahawks he was the head coach of the Jets and Patriots and both of those stops his quarterbacks were nothing special. The idea that he somehow sprinkled his magical fairy dust onto an average quarterback and turned him into a nine time pro bowler is laughably absurd.
Quote from: madbadger on March 08, 2024, 02:45:00 PMAnd when Brady left every quarterback thereafter looked like dog poo, while he won yet another Super Bowl. The fact of the matter is that Pete Carroll is a defensive coach and is not an offensive genius. Let's not forget that before he was the head coach of the Seahawks he was the head coach of the Jets and Patriots and both of those stops his quarterbacks were nothing special. The idea that he somehow sprinkled his magical fairy dust onto an average quarterback and turned him into a nine time pro bowler is laughably absurd.
So is the idea that it was all Brady and not at all BB.
Quote from: madbadger on March 08, 2024, 02:27:14 PMWell if you said it than it must be 100% true. Coaches don't make players, they can only hamper them. I remember dolts trying to claim that Belichek was the real genius not Brady. How'd that work out in the end?
So by your logic a coach-less team is ideal because nobody can get in their way? I'm glad to see that every sport in this history of sports that has coaches has gotten it wrong. Very enlightening. The 2007 Giants had a single player that made the Pro Bowl but won the Superbowl. How do you explain that?
I've always loved the revisionist history about the Patriots and Belichick/Brady as well. Tom Brady was not always Tom Brady. He was a nice player who played well within a system for the formative years of his career. The Patriots had a great defense and a team that won championships as the team was usually greater than the sum of it's parts from 2001-2006. Tom Brady has said so himself on many occasions. Belichick absolutely benefitted immensely from Brady by 2007 and beyond, and many of those teams would not have won championships without Brady at the helm.
The simple reality is that great players are more valuable than great coaches. To suggest that great coaching doesn't matter, or can't make players better is an absurd notion though.
Quote from: zephirus on March 08, 2024, 02:49:02 PMSo by your logic a coach-less team is ideal because nobody can get in their way? I'm glad to see that every sport in this history of sports that has coaches has gotten it wrong. Very enlightening. The 2007 Giants had a single player that made the Pro Bowl but won the Superbowl. How do you explain that?
I've always loved the revisionist history about the Patriots and Belichick/Brady as well. Tom Brady was not always Tom Brady. He was a nice player who played well within a system for the formative years of his career. The Patriots had a great defense and a team that won championships as the team was usually greater than the sum of it's parts from 2001-2006. Tom Brady has said so himself on many occasions. Belichick absolutely benefitted immensely from Brady by 2007 and beyond, and many of those teams would not have won championships without Brady at the helm.
The simple reality is that great players are more valuable than great coaches. To suggest that great coaching doesn't matter, or can't make players better is an absurd notion though.
Anyone who thinks it was all Brady and nothing to do with BB should go watch both Rams Super Bowls.
Patriots scored 3 offensive TDs in postseason during TBs 1st Super Bowl run and somehow it was all him.
Quote from: zephirus on March 08, 2024, 02:49:02 PMSo by your logic a coach-less team is ideal because nobody can get in their way? I'm glad to see that every sport in this history of sports that has coaches has gotten it wrong. Very enlightening. The 2007 Giants had a single player that made the Pro Bowl but won the Superbowl. How do you explain that?
I've always loved the revisionist history about the Patriots and Belichick/Brady as well. Tom Brady was not always Tom Brady. He was a nice player who played well within a system for the formative years of his career. The Patriots had a great defense and a team that won championships as the team was usually greater than the sum of it's parts from 2001-2006. Tom Brady has said so himself on many occasions. Belichick absolutely benefitted immensely from Brady by 2007 and beyond, and many of those teams would not have won championships without Brady at the helm.
The simple reality is that great players are more valuable than great coaches. To suggest that great coaching doesn't matter, or can't make players better is an absurd notion though.
That's the best summation of the Brady/Belichick era. If another team drafted Brady, I don't think we know who he is.
It's a clear case of the student surpassing the teacher. But without the teacher...
Sean Payton made a huge mistake coming to be the Bronco Honcho. Should have been more patient than to agree to the ownership chaos in Denver. Maybe the Chargers could have been there this year .maybe the Pokes. Hey, he got paid, but he's also got a lot of cow chips to clean up, starting at qb.
: :coach: :poo:
Never mind the coach versus player rationalizing as it does nothing to diminish Lee's (zephirus) well-reasoned position regarding whatever interest the Giants might have in Russell Wilson.
Aside from coddling the Jones haters, and otherwise costing cap peanuts for a persona non grata, I can see little benefit to the team in bringing in a self-absorbed, broadly unpopular teammate who at most can do little more than cause the Giants to be picking later next time while they're still seeking to find both his and Jones's replacements.
Cheers!
Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 08, 2024, 02:48:13 PMSo is the idea that it was all Brady and not at all BB.
I'm saying that if Brady played for Andy Reid and not Bill Belichek his numbers would pretty much be the same if not better. A great coach doesn't hamper his quarterback but the quarterback is who he is. The problem is that there are so many bad coaches who hamper a quarterback that we have begun to think coaches make the player. It's simply not true.
The question I have is Wilson was considered a shoe in for HOF two years ago. Is that still the case today? I think the answer is no. Let Russ cook means a qb who is getting benched and cut.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 08, 2024, 02:35:23 PMWhen Brady got hurt, BB made Matt Cassal look lime a HOFer with that new offense he ran designed around MC's strengths. Teams win SBs with all contributing.
Why has he not been able to do the same thing with Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 08, 2024, 04:42:42 PMWhy has he not been able to do the same thing with Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe?
I imagine it had something to do with Matt Cassel throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker while Mac Jones is throwing to some cast-offs and nobodys.
I'd also imagine that Matt Cassel having the benefit of sitting the bench and learning the game for 3 seasons behind the best coach/qb combo ever before actually seeing action might have something to do with that as well.
Oops, I clicked on the Brady/Belichick thread. Guess I should have read the title more closely.
Anyway, does this move really help us? We already have Daniel Jones to hold down the fort while we draft and develop a quarterback. Wilson is basically an older, slower, weirder version of Jones with more baggage. I don't see the upside.
Quote from: y_so_blu on March 08, 2024, 07:30:06 PMOops, I clicked on the Brady/Belichick thread. Guess I should have read the title more closely.
Anyway, does this move really help us? We already have Daniel Jones to hold down the fort while we draft and develop a quarterback. Wilson is basically an older, slower, weirder version of Jones with more baggage. I don't see the upside.
in an awful year AND getting benched, Wilson still had more TD's than Jones has ever had in his entire career. He is a huge upgrade short term over Jones.
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 08, 2024, 07:43:49 PMin an awful year AND getting benched, Wilson still had more TD's than Jones has ever had in his entire career. He is a huge upgrade short term over Jones.
Sorry, but yeah, and so what? It's a meaningless comparison. Are you assuming that someone the Broncos couldn't wait to get rid of despite the enormous cost to allow them to begin looking for their potential QB of the future is going to make it easier for the Giants to do likewise?
Wilson, whether or not he has a year or two left, is not the Giants QB of the future. Moreover, any degree of success he might have, such as that of Jones in 2022, would only make it more difficult to find a promising successor in the Draft. Unless, not having added a decent or better QB prospect this year, they see Wilson as a stopgap in 2025, he makes no sense to me.
Cheers!
Quote from: madbadger on March 08, 2024, 12:50:06 PMWTF? He's a hall of fame quarterback who, statistically, was in the upper third of all quarterbacks last year, despite having a dirtbag coach who tried to torpedo him constantly. lol
It's not 2017. He's been on the decline for a while now.
Quote from: Hadron on March 08, 2024, 11:19:10 PMIt's not 2017. He's been on the decline for a while now.
Looked really good last year despite not having good skill position players and a coach invested in his success.
Quote from: Painter on March 08, 2024, 08:46:13 PM Sorry, but yeah, and so what? It's a meaningless comparison. Are you assuming that someone the Broncos couldn't wait to get rid of despite the enormous cost to allow them to begin looking for their potential QB of the future is going to make it easier for the Giants to do likewise?
Wilson, whether or not he has a year or two left, is not the Giants QB of the future. Moreover, any degree of success he might have, such as that of Jones in 2022, would only make it more difficult to find a promising successor in the Draft. Unless, not having added a decent or better QB prospect this year, they see Wilson as a stopgap in 2025, he makes no sense to me.
Cheers!
the only reason to take Wilson is assuming we DO draft a QB prsopect who NEEDS TIME to develop and learn behind an all time great QB, and we can then cut DJ.
If we don't draft a rookie Qb, no point to getting Russ.
Quote from: EliWasrobbed on March 09, 2024, 02:22:13 AMthe only reason to take Wilson is assuming we DO draft a QB prsopect who NEEDS TIME to develop and learn behind an all time great QB, and we can then cut DJ.
If we don't draft a rookie Qb, no point to getting Russ.
The only point in that scenario would be that, even though he's not what he was, he's still better than DJ, and we don't even know how healthy DJ will be. And we have no other QBs.
I don't want to be committed to Russ beyond one year so maybe it's not possible, but if he's obtainable on the cheap because he and his wife want to be in NY, I could see it.
But I highly doubt it happens in any case, so this is pie in the sky stuff as far as I'm concerned.
A QB who wanted his own office doesn't seem like he is interested in being a football player to me. Pass
From my perspective, the Giants won't bring in a Diva. However, the reason to bring in a Veteran who has had success in the past would be to compete with Jones as this year's starter and then either draft a second round QB who sits a year or draft one next season.
Teams do due diligence on guys all the time. They could have zero interest in Wilson and are using a meeting with him to broaden their understanding of QB personalities and motivations.
Fans far too often read way too much into these meetings. Gathering intel is never a bad thing.
The only benefit to signing russ is that you could get him for the vet min and not have to pay a back up 8-9 million
Quote from: madbadger on March 08, 2024, 11:37:50 PMLooked really good last year despite not having good skill position players and a coach invested in his success.
He looked good at times but hardly consistent.
He was on the decline in Seattle which is why Seattle traded him. If he was still top notch, do you think a team trades their franchise QB?
I don't think it's any surprise that diva QBs were allowed to leave their teams when their production/skill dipped (see Wilson and Rodgers).
I remember when many folks here were ready to give the farm away for Wilson a few years ago and when I said he was in decline, I was poo poo'ed.
Like I said, Vet minimum or a Tyrod contract for one year and have him as a qualified backup. He should even be able to beat out DJ. Unfortunately his narcissistic ways preclude him from being a positive influence on this team searching for an identity.