Honestly, as the draft gets closer, a part of me thinks we shouldn't draft a QB this year. Unless one fall to us we really wanted, it makes sense to build the team from the ground up. I would be ok trading back to get picks, but don't want to lose out on a WR or even a blue chip at any position. Throwing a rookie QB behind this line with no weapons makes zero sense to me.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on April 03, 2024, 02:55:17 PMHonestly, as the draft gets closer, a part of me thinks we shouldn't draft a QB this year. Unless one fall to us we really wanted, it makes sense to build the team from the ground up. I would be ok trading back to get picks, but don't want to lose out on a WR or even a blue chip at any position. Throwing a rookie QB behind this line with no weapons makes zero sense to me.
Maybe a football team should be built from the bottom up and the middle out, not the top down. To coin a phrase. ;)
If they really love a top guy then I will get behind them doing what they have to do to get them given how important QB is in NFL. If they do not (or simply cannot get it done) I see no point in taking one just to be seen to be doing something.
Quote from: londonblue on April 03, 2024, 04:42:39 PMIf they really love a top guy then I will get behind them doing what they have to do to get them given how important QB is in NFL. If they do not (or simply cannot get it done) I see no point in taking one just to be seen to be doing something.
They are doing their homework. If they really like one of the four or five top ones,take him. They might not get a chance at a young QB for awhile. I believe in building foundations. Wide receivers come just before running backs in terms of team building. They don't win games for you. But QBs with receivers do. And it's easier to find receivers than QBs. The Giants right now, at best, have maybe the 20th ranked QB when he is healthy. They have a solid backup that will keep you competitive. But that's it. They have to be better at that position.
As badly as we need a new QB on this team, I won't automatically be "mad" if we don't draft one. I will take that to mean that one that we covet was simply not available or realistically obtainable. I definitely don't want to draft a QB sixth overall or, worse, in a trade-up, that we don't feel a high degree of conviction about. I'm also not interested in using the 6th overall pick in the draft to take a QB who projects out to being another Andy Dalton or Ryan Tanneyhill type. That's what the middle rounds are for.
If the Giants really like a QB prospect and view him as a franchise player, and there is a way to get him, I would move mountains to make it happen if it were my decision. But I have no interest in the team forcing a QB pick just because we need one. I think that would be a big mistake.
My bet is a lot more folks will be mad if the Jints do take a QB and he's not the one they wanted 😀
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 03, 2024, 05:08:12 PMMy bet is a lot more folks will be mad if the Jints do take a QB and he's not the one they wanted 😀
It has to be the one the Giants want. That's it
I would be pretty disappointed if they didn't get one in the first 2 rounds. As much as Penix/Nix/Maye are in a tier below the top of this draft, if they were coming out next year they might very well be the big 3 of that one.
And I expect the Giants will be good enough, at least on defense, to not be picking in the top 5 again next season. Meaning if they don't get one right now they may not have a chance to get one for a while. And I just can't with Jones any more. So I really hope they do take one, even if it ends up being from the Penix/Nix/Rattler group in Round 2.
I'm pretty simple when it comes to drafting QBs. You only do so if you need one and you think the guy you're taking can be a franchise QB. If there isn't one there that you think can be a franchise guy, don't waste your time.
Just seems like a draft like this would benefit the team in the short term and long term regardless of who in under center. Roll with Jones, Luck and Cutlets and worry about a QB next year
6-Rome Odunze WR
47-Trey Benson RB
70-Ben Sinnott TE
107-Mason McCormick Guard
The history of teams trading up to the top 5 to draft a QB is scary bad.
I am resigned to the reality that a QB may be in the cards for the Giants this draft.
When there is a draft Class with several QBs that show promise and a team needs a QB, it's worth the chance if they believe in that kid. If one of the top four are there at six and the Giants don't draft a QB, they better have a good backup plan.
What was the consensus at the BBWC
@brownelvis54 ?
I wont be mad if they don't draft a QB. I think 4 may be off the board when they pick at 6 and potentially another 2 gone before their 2nd round pick.
How many here will be happy if they draft McCarthy, Nix or Penix at 6? There are a few McCarthy fans here but I think the majority would be against it.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on April 03, 2024, 05:54:59 PMJust seems like a draft like this would benefit the team in the short term and long term regardless of who in under center. Roll with Jones, Luck and Cutlets and worry about a QB next year
6-Rome Odunze WR
47-Trey Benson RB
70-Ben Sinnott TE
107-Mason McCormick Guard
Way too many holes on this team to waste 47 on a RB.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on April 03, 2024, 07:15:07 PMWay too many holes on this team to waste 47 on a RB.
I can't argue with your statement, just looking for Barkleys replacement. I would be fine at 47 the best player available, cornerback, safety....anything. Like you said so many roster spots to fill. We need blue chip players, not injured or bargain basement players.
Quote from: Ed Vette on April 03, 2024, 06:43:19 PMWhen there is a draft Class with several QBs that show promise and a team needs a QB, it's worth the chance if they believe in that kid. If one of the top four are there at six and the Giants don't draft a QB, they better have a good backup plan.
What was the consensus at the BBWC @brownelvis54 ?
IMO they seem to have more pro Daniel Jones fans...and believe the foundation should come first. A couple feel that if at 6 and Joe Alt is there, then we MUST draft him. I would be a little disappointed if that were to happen.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on April 03, 2024, 07:59:38 PMIMO they seem to have more pro Daniel Jones fans...and believe the foundation should come first. A couple feel that if at 6 and Joe Alt is there, then we MUST draft him. I would be a little disappointed if that were to happen.
I got that from my conversations with Gordon. Seems like groups become homogeneous to some extent and it develops into group think.
Quote from: Ed Vette on April 03, 2024, 08:06:27 PMI got that from my conversations with Gordon. Seems like groups become homogeneous to some extent and it develops into group think.
Makes sense.
I just think most people dont want to pick a QB just to pick a QB. But if they think he is worth it you better pick him
He can sit a year and learn from D Jones or Drew lock
But to build a team without a QB doesnt always work
Remember the colts a few years ago
They had an awesome team.but never got the QB correct
Quote from: brownelvis54 on April 03, 2024, 02:55:17 PMHonestly, as the draft gets closer, a part of me thinks we shouldn't draft a QB this year. Unless one fall to us we really wanted, it makes sense to build the team from the ground up. I would be ok trading back to get picks, but don't want to lose out on a WR or even a blue chip at any position. Throwing a rookie QB behind this line with no weapons makes zero sense to me.
The last time we traded back we lost out on Micah Parsons
Quote from: Stringer Bell on April 03, 2024, 07:15:07 PMWay too many holes on this team to waste 47 on a RB.
Also way too many holes at 3T and across DB to use top 4 picks on O. The fastest way to become competitive is to have a sound D and solid OL. The Steelers show this over and over. If a QB is there we love take him or a stud WR in R1 and then build the D!
Quote from: ralphpal1 on April 03, 2024, 08:22:16 PMI just think most people dont want to pick a QB just to pick a QB. But if they think he is worth it you better pick him
He can sit a year and learn from D Jones or Drew lock
But to build a team without a QB doesnt always work
Remember the colts a few years ago
They had an awesome team.but never got the QB correct
They had one of the best but he retired because he was getting way too many hits from a porous OL
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on April 04, 2024, 04:51:06 AMThey had one of the best but he retired because he was getting way too many hits from a porous OL
?? The year Luck retired, he was sacked just 18x; the line was rebuilt with All-Pro Quentin Nelson and the very solid, and criminally underrated, Braden Smith. If anything, the OL was a strength for the Colts in 2018, finishing as PFFs 3rd best OL. They were young and poised for long-term success.
The most sacks Luck endured in a single season was 41. In 6 seasons, he averaged 29 sacks per season, which is middle-of-the-road. For comparison sake, the NFLs best OB (Mahomes), averages 25 sacks per season over the same 6 year period. From 2012 to 2016, Luck did not miss a single game; the injury that cost him the 2017 season was a byproduct of a snowboarding accident that occurred 15 months earlier.
Luck did not retire because "he was getting way too many hits from a porous OL"; in point of fact, his 2018 Oline was among the NFL's best. Luck retired because he didn't like the man he was becoming:
"He felt too much pressure, and had to convince himself that he had "some level of control over the outcome" of a random game. So he became someone he didn't want to be -- or, specifically, he tapped into a part of his personality he didn't always relish."
The Colts situation perfectly highlights the question. Despite having enough talent to win 10+ games a season, the Colts immediately sank to the bottom of the NFL without their top 5 QBs.
2008 12-4
2009 14-2
2010 10-6
Payton Manning retires
2011 2-14
Luck is drafted
2012 11-5
2013 11-5
2014 11-5
2015 8-8 Luck is injured and only starts 7 games
2016 8-8
Luck Out-For-The Year with a shoulder injury
2017 4-12
Luck Returns
2018 10-6
We can also apply the logic above to Cinci. Moreover, does anyone believe KC or Buff would post double-digit win seasons without their QBs?
You can build an amazing foundation; however, it doesn't matter unless you find a prolific passer. Yes, I hope the Giants draft a QB; however, I won't be 'mad' as I realize the Giants are not in control of circumstance. The reality is, 4 QBs may be selected before the Giants pick, once again preventing us from drafting our guy. Fundamentally, I don't believe a WR, T or CB is going to significantly move the dial; in short, the sooner we're out of QB hell, the better.
I don't want them to trade up for one of the top-3, or to take McCarthy at 6, or to trade back for Penix or Nix nor do I expect them to do so.
Cheers!
I wouldn't be unhappy if the Giants don't draft a QB. I like some of the QBs in this draft, but I don't want the Giants to draft a QB just to draft one. It has to be a QB the Giants deem worthy of the 6th pick. I certainly don't want them to move up to draft a QB. Too many holes in this team that can potentially be filled in this draft.
3 more weeks. Can't come soon enough.
If they don't draft a QB because they don't like any available to them, fine. But that just adds at least two more years of watching a mediocre product perform on Sundays. If you don't improve the most important position on the field you just can't expect much success.
If they dont draft a QB then I hope they trade back and accumulate more draft capital. Draft a Brian Thomas, Xavier Worthy, etc., then load up on defense with DT, CB, safety plus draft Jaylen Wright at RB and Zak Zinter at Guard.
We need 3-4 new rookie starters who perform.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 04, 2024, 08:03:39 PMIf they dont draft a QB then I hope they trade back and accumulate more draft capital. Draft a Brian Thomas, Xavier Worthy, etc., then load up on defense with DT, CB, safety plus draft Jaylen Wright at RB and Zak Zinter at Guard.
We need 3-4 new rookie starters who perform.
I am getting a lot warmer to this idea myself. We just gave up draft assets to get a star in Brian Burns. If we're not getting a QB (which I hope we do), we should think about reversing the impact of the Burns trade by moving back for a good return. If ever there was a draft to have more top 70 picks, it's this one.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 03, 2024, 04:57:24 PMAs badly as we need a new QB on this team, I won't automatically be "mad" if we don't draft one. I will take that to mean that one that we covet was simply not available or realistically obtainable. I definitely don't want to draft a QB sixth overall or, worse, in a trade-up, that we don't feel a high degree of conviction about. I'm also not interested in using the 6th overall pick in the draft to take a QB who projects out to being another Andy Dalton or Ryan Tanneyhill type. That's what the middle rounds are for.
If the Giants really like a QB prospect and view him as a franchise player, and there is a way to get him, I would move mountains to make it happen if it were my decision. But I have no interest in the team forcing a QB pick just because we need one. I think that would be a big mistake.
This has been my stance from Day 1 and continues to be.
I also feel/believe that this is Schoen's and Daboll's mindset as well.
"Is there a QB that we feel will elevate/be the foundation for this team for the next 5-10?" If the answer is "Yes", then they play out different scenarios on how to position themselves to get him. I definitely don't see them picking a guy at 6 or making moves to go up and get him if they aren't fully confident at this point that he can be the face of the franchise.
And if they don't feel anyone fits the bill this year, I wouldn't be upset if they didn't go QB in the first.