Big Blue Huddle

That would be a sad state of affairs if they blew a #7 pick on a sub-par OT, mediocre OG. How did the scouts get this one wrong? There was talk of him being the top tackle in the class.  Is it possible he is strictly a LT?  Did his skills not transfer to the NFL? Was the OL coaching that bad on this team? Or is he not as good as everyone made him out to be?

The front office should not worry about the fans.  Fans have the temperament of children.  They'll stomp their feet, hold their breath till they look like Grumpy Smurf, and storm out in a huff.  Then when the blood seeps back to their brain, they'll come back in droves.  It happens all the time.  The NFL is a business and business decisions are made by people who have the inside info and will face consequences for their decisions.  Not by people who sew their names on the back of a # 56 jersey.  Jones was not, and is still not, worth the contract.  They did not believe in him fully by putting in a 2-year-and-out clause in the contract. They should have let him test FA to see that other teams weren't going to come close to 40 million dollars.  Or, throw him a bone and tag him for 30 + million.  Now Jones is taking up a roster spot next year because of salary implications.  Schoen had to say that he is the starter next year to save face.  But he should have to fight for his position, just like everyone else. 

They need an OL coach upgrade.  They can keep pumping picks and FA resources in to that unit.  But until they fix the coaching for those guys, the Giants are just spitting in to the wind.

They're so bad that birds fly upside down over the Meadowlands.

I'm going to echo a previous poster's sentiment.  Get a good OL coach.  That's where it starts.  This team can keep pumping in resources to their line, but if they can't coach 'em up and develop them, it's a waste.  I do believe Neal can be salvaged in to a respectable player, but it has to start with the coach.  And secondarily, the front office has to do a better job of talent evaluation in the later rounds.  You can find quality OL in the 4th rd and later.  That's where your money is made.  For people to say they need to go OL, again, in the 1st round or 2nd rd, that's grocery shopping while hungry.  Go around the league and see where most of these guys were drafted.  They weren't top 10.  There was a chart online (sorry, don't remember) that showed the teams that got the most bang for their buck regarding OL play and their draft status.  I don't have to tell you where the Giants placed.  And unfortunately, this has been an issue for a good decade now and it's time to stop. 

They should have let Jones test free agency to see his worth.  Nobody was giving him 40 million.  Nobody. The money was burning a hole in their pocket and they needed to spend it.  They paid the position, not the player.  I'll give Burrow and Mahomes and Herbet and Lawrenece that type of money.  They are QBs like Jones, but more deserving of it. It was a game of chicken and Schoen and the front office blinked.  They got fooled by the playoff run and are now paying for it.  And they really didn't believe in him, adding a 2-year-and-out policy in the contract.  The locker room would have pitched a bitch at first if Jones left. Football is a game.  The NFL is the business and feelings need to be left at the door. 

If Jones is not healthy, he should sit.  You do not play around with neck injuries.  Taylor is a competent QB who can run the offense.  Neither one is franchise-worthy, but you have to protect your players at all costs.  Even if they are looking to boot him after next year, you have to protect him from getting severely injured.

It's a lot easier to diagnose the play from a bird's eye view.  The blitzer was 3 yards off pre-snap and gunned it at the snap of the ball.  What they need to do is show the angle from the end zone to give a better idea of what Jones was seeing.  Jones has a lot of work to do as a QB and I get frustrated at the simple things he messes up.  This one, I can't fully drop at his door step.  Sometimes you just have to give the defense and their coordinator some credit.

They're going to have to go through a period of lean years.  There is very little talent on this team and I'm starting to question the coaching staff.  Yes, it's time to clean house.  It's something they should have done in the off-season.  But I'm sure there was pressure from ownership after a playoff victory to keep the train moving.  But the train has run off the tracks.  Jones should have been franchised tagged and Barkley given a 2 to 3 year deal. Or let Daniel test free agency to see that other teams wouldn't come close to 40 million dollars.  But the Giants are here now and they have to deal with the remainder of the season.  Gotta see who can play, who will be around for 2024, and who will be dealt at the trading deadline.  It's like my Mets dealing away players after investing heavily in salaries.  They have to do it and position themselves for the future.  Acquire picks, reduce cap hits, and figure out the talent.  This season is done.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 04, 2023, 10:41:26 AMpart of the problem with a Barkley is you have to pay him.  His 10+ million salary makes him the 7th highest-paid RB in the league.  I would rather have 2 lower-paid RBs or better yet at least one on a cheap rookie deal.  When you have a RB like Barkley GMs are loath to bring in another quality RB because they know Barkley is going to get most of the carries (if healthy) and they tend to neglect them in the draft (for the same reason). 

What's stopping them from bringing in another quality back?  Barkley, to your point, is hurt.  but he is a quality back.  Brightwell, Breida, Gray doesn't make the opposing defenses have to focus on them.  They're backups forced in to starting roles and their lack of value is now showing.  None of them should be getting more than 10 looks a game.  You need to have the best of the best on the field.  And these backup RBs aren't it.  Barkley has his limitations as far as health, but his skillset is valued.  Run, pass, and block.  You need quality, not just quantity.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 04, 2023, 10:27:35 AMBarkley is hurt, and the odds are good that he will continue to get hurt.    Frankly, the Barkley model is outdated, in my opinion.  Teams are better served with a duo of good RBs than just one really good RB.  The duo allows injuries (which RBs are more prone to) to be better handled, and the reduced workload can extend the RB's careers and reduce the chances of injury.

His model is not outdated.  The Adrian Peterson model is outdated.  RBs that can't block or catch are a hindrance in the passing game.  Adrian was a beast and still has some value, but in the wide-open offenses, you have to keep the defenses honest.  Barkley does that.  yes, you need to have a stable of RBs but they have to have some value.  The healthy backs that the Giants have right now are barely serviceable.  They are not threats and the defenses don't need 8 men in the box.  Barkley, to your point, when healthy, is a difference maker.  You pay difference makers. 

Quote from: RelaxTension on October 04, 2023, 10:12:26 AMBarkley isn't worth a long-term deal either.

He's worth it more than Jones.  Barkley is a proven commodity.  When he's on, he is a weapon.  Get him in space and he'll get you yardage.  He makes the play action work.  Right now, there is no threat of a run game or any threat coming out of the backfield.  But on the flip side, he has a high ankle sprain and isn't playing again. 

Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 03, 2023, 05:51:07 PMCan we talk about Joe Schoen too? He blew TWO top 7 picks, and Deonte Banks grades are scary low. He also blew it when he declined Jones fifth year option which forced us to sign him to that huge deal, instead of making him prove it one more year under Daboll. He also is the one who hired these other crappy coaches. He does not keep getting a pass.

He didn't have to sign him to that big deal.  He should have let him test free agency if he was asking for more than he was worth.  People have this notion that what he got was the going rate for QBs.  You pay the player, not the position.  He was never worth the contract.  They should have either franchised him or given him a 2-year 55 million dollar contract with incentives.  Now they're stuck with him till next year with a major chunk of the cap.  You could have signed Barkley long-term and it would have cost less than Jones' contract.  He's just not the guy.  He shows glimpses of good play and then turns around and makes bone head decisions.  The entire Giants organization needs to be questioned at this moment.