Big Blue Huddle

I see the same sort of things in Maye.  He's the only one of the top 4 QBs that I would legitimately be bummed about if the Giants took at 6.  I wouldn't advise taking JJ at 6 but if they did I'd be excited to see what he could do.  If they take Maye there wouldn't be any excitement.  Just disappointment.  Perhaps the most disappoint I've had on draft day since... well since they took Daniel Jones.

I would be pretty disappointed if they didn't get one in the first 2 rounds.  As much as Penix/Nix/Maye are in a tier below the top of this draft, if they were coming out next year they might very well be  the big 3 of that one. 

And I expect the Giants will be good enough, at least on defense, to not be picking in the top 5 again next season.  Meaning if they don't get one right now they may not have a chance to get one for a while.  And I just can't with Jones any more.  So I really hope they do take one, even if it ends up being from the Penix/Nix/Rattler group in Round 2.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 03, 2024, 01:23:52 PMI appreciate that I am in a small minority because I was not a fan of the Brian Burns trade.   I appreciate that, in a vacuum, the trade looks pretty good for the Giants.  However, the trade isn't in a vacuum and has to be evaluated based on the conditions of the current Giants team.

I think the Giants trade would have been great if I believed this season was the start of the Giants Super Bowl run.   However, I believe the Giants are still in the building/rebuilding phase.  In that phase, you acquire more picks and try to save cap space rather than give away picks and pick up expensive contracts.

So, from my vantage point, I could see the theory put forth possibly being valid.

With competent QB play, and that's a huge caveat I know, I think the Giants are closer to a playoff team than they are to the top 5.  So if they can get Jones to just not be truly terrible or draft a rookie that provides even average play at QB, I think the Giants are starting to open their window.  If they don't draft a QB and they let Jones continue to stink it up for another 3 years then absolutely this trade is stupid.  I just don't think they plan on doing that.

Well...that sucks for the Bills. They are gonna be pretty desperate for a WR though, and Schoen I assume knows a few people running around that building, so if the Giants are looking to trade down they could get quite a haul including future 1st round pick or picks.

Unlikely the Giants would go that far back in the 1st round obviously, however, if they don't think there's much of a difference between QB4 (whether it's McCarthy or Maye) and guys like Penix/Nix they could very likely end up with Penix/Nix at #28 and get a bunch of other stuff from the Bills in the process.

Quote from: T200 on April 03, 2024, 11:34:53 AMThat's a Grand Canyon-sized leap, IMO.

I mean, which acquisitions are attributed to the GM and which are attributed to the HC? It's the GM's job to acquire talent for the coach to use to get wins on the field.

I have a hard time believing Schoen and Daboll are making moves because of the Ghost of Wink, or what the media might say.

I agree.  Isn't it far more likely they acquired Burns because, as we saw last year, this is a team that's currently built to win with defense rather than offense because they don't have a QB worth a crap so therefor let's make this defense as great as it possibly can be so they can win a few more games while Jones screws around again or they draft a rookie QB who has some growing pains of his own? 

Doesn't that seem far more reasonable of an explanation than some sort of conspiracy theory about trying to make sure the media doesn't take Wink's side in the divorce?

Pretty upset to be honest.  I'm not a big fan of Maye and if there's a team willing to trade up for him, like the Broncos, I say let em.  The difference between Maye and Nix and Penix and even Rattler to me are pretty small so if they can pick up another 1st round pick and still take one of those other QBs later on, I feel like that's quite a haul. If they stand pat and the draft falls that way I would prefer to see Rome or Nabers and pretty much nobody else in that 6 spot.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 10:01:09 AMJackon has been able to complete only one full season out of 6, and he didn't have the wreckless running style of Daniels.

Plus, with Jackson, do you measure your team's success by your quarterback's awards and stats or by the team's success in the playoffs?

I measure the success of a QB by his performance on the field.  This wasn't a subject about how good the Ravens are.  Lamar has been one of the best QBs in the league since he entered it.  Daniels has a similar build and skill set.  Does that mean he's going to be as good as Lamar, who is objectively great? No, of course not.  But we also should write him off, as so many did Lamar, simply because he doesn't look like a typical QB looks.  He's got off the charts athleticism and has improved every season.  I'd be thrilled if the Giants were to somehow land him but unfortunately he seems pretty solidly slotted in as QB2 right now which means the Giants won't be able to get him.

Nabers does seem to be more similar to the Giants current crop of WRs than Rome does.  It's why I slightly prefer Rome for the Giants because they are missing that big fast X receiver on the outside. Having said that, Nabers with the football in his hand is absolutely electric.  In that regard he does remind me of OBJ a bit.  Every time he touches the football he could score.  So if the Giants decide to take him over Rome I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.

Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2024, 09:22:31 AMI never thought about Daniels and his running style and size versus getting injured.  He runs with an attitude of he will beat you or fake you. Wr need longevity out of our QB

A lot of the same things were said about Lamar Jackson when he was coming out.  Too slight of a build, too much running, going to be injured all the time, not accurate. etc.  And what happened was Lamar was just the best athlete on the field even at the NFL level and has won 2 MVP awards.  I'd certainly take that from a Giants QB!  Not saying Daniels is going to be as good as Lamar but I wouldn't write him off just based on that. 

Drake Maye and it's an easy answer for me.  I think Williams and Daniels are the top QBs followed by JJ though he isn't on their level.  And then the rest of them get lumped in.  I just don't see much difference between Maye and guys like Penix and Nix and maybe even Rattler as far as NFL prospects go.  Maybe he impresses in the meetings or in the class room but on the field I'm not seeing top 5 pick.

What a wild 3rd period!  Don't often see a 2-1 game going into the 3rd end up at 6-5 but that's exactly what happened as each team traded haymakers for most of that period.  Not a ton of defense being played either way and a couple of flukey goals helped but the Rangers hung on to become the first team to clinch a playoff spot.

This is a good idea and I'm glad the NFL is adopting it.  Currently a wide majority of kicks end up as touchbacks which are boring and just waste everybody's time.  Now we will see a lot more returns which means a lot more return TDs.  We will see what kind of effect that has on concussions if you don't have such a huge head start prior to contact.  In theory it should help in that area too.

It's Gettleman. 

Man.  It's tough but I think I would.  Because I'm under the impression that this team isn't that far off from being pretty good if you add competent QB play.  But I wouldn't do it for Maye.  I would't think twice doing it for Daniels.  JJ would make me consider for a long time but I'd probably go for it.  Drake Maye means I pass.

But whatever package the Giants put together the Vikings are going to come over the top anyway.  If the Cardinals are willing to trade that pick I think it's going to the Vikings and only them.  They are a mostly complete team with a gaping hole at QB.  Unless they are somehow infatuated with Penix or Nix and plan to take one of them at 23...I think they will offer whatever it takes to get into the top 5 and jump the Giants for QB4. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 22, 2024, 01:47:29 PMYou make some good points.

If Carolina was willing to trade with the Giants, then it seems like they were not going to tag him.  Yes maybe another team would have made an offer.  I really don't remember if another team made an offer for Williams (who by the way just signed another contract similar to the one he had with the Giants). 

If Burns ranks 12th in sacks over that period, how is he elite? This whole "sack win rate" and "pressures" is the exact stuff I heard when Olivier Vernon was signed.  Is he really worth the 2nd highest contract for an EDGE?  Guess we will find out.  Sure hope his presence helps Thibodeaux and him because neither has really set the world on fire. 

It could be a nightmare for opposing offenses if the run defense improves (not a strong point of Burns) AND the offense gets better.  Hoping to win with defense in today's NFL doesn't exactly inspire much confidence for me.  In order to do that you have to have some semblance of being able to move the ball consistently on offense to at least change field position.  It's just not a winning formula today. 

To me this move is similar in that DG really thought Williams would help the Giants the next year and thereafter compete with defense.  It was a desperation move on his part.  This move feels oddly similar for a HC that may be gone if he has another 6 win season. 

Like I said, I hope I am wrong and Burns is as good as advertised.  And they are able to win with defense.

I agree with the 2nd bolded part there.  Winning with defense isn't ideal anymore.  No argument.  However to win with offense you need a QB and the Giants don't have one.  So for this particular team, at least this particular season, they don't really have a choice.  The only other option would be to sign nobody at all, trade away everything of any value, and really make a run at the #1 pick in the draft next season.  And that's assuming they believe the #1 QB next year is a better prospect than JJ McCarthy or whoever ends up being the 4th QB this year and I'm not sure you'd get a consensus on that either way.

As to the first bolded part, yes the Vernon had a lot of similar rhetoric attached to him.  And to be fair I had high hopes for him too back then.  Clearly I was mistaken.  But I don't know if that's good enough reason to just not do stuff.  Once they made the Burns trade I watched a lot of video of him playing.  I'm not a coach or an expert by any means but I did like what I saw.  It gave me reason for optimism that when playing with Thibs/Dex one of those 3 guys should be able to consistently get to the QB on any given day.  You can't double all of them!